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On your post about kobolds

If you look at all the races in pathfinder they all get +2 to one of the three physical stats Str Dex Con. +2 to one of the mental stats and then a -2 to one stat

There for kobolds I feel get +2 to dex small and agile. +2 to cha because though they are not very personable they have strong personalities and sense of who they are and where they come from.
They get -2 to str because they are not very strong.

A +1 nat ac is good and is offset by lightblindness

I also like the idea of treating them as tiny and small depending on which suits them best.

Kobolds move at 30 as they are fast for there size

+2 to disable device and trapmaking they show aptitude to the task of pulling apart others creation but not in creating new equipment. and making traps cause traps are about the only thing they really spend time creating.

Not sure on weapon familiarity but some of the otherposts have great ideas.

Fav class rogue and sorc.

There are other race features which I can't think of them off the top of my head but just insert in the post


One idea I did like that I heard was that the paladin class like the blackguard should be a prestige class that one should earn rather then start with. But as stated previously that would take it to far from its origins though I think it would be one of the best options I have heard.

Another idea which I have posted elseware is to take the paladin away from gods completely and instead tie them to diferent plains. This would mean a lawful good paladin would get his powerd from a place like I think is celestia (always get the good planes mixed up) though a chaotic evil paladin would draw power from the abyss. This would then give all players an idea of the codes and morals that each plane would encourage and thus give people an idea of how there paladin should act in differing situations. Obviously people can argue that this gives no real link to the powers that a palain is granted like spells, but you should remember that no only are the planes home to the gods they are also home to a miriad of different beings of power eg orcus. And you many even work for some greater goal. eg LE paladin going around collecting souls for the blood war. Ill do this if you sogn this contract saying that for 5 yrs after your death you will work for us ect ect. I find the idea interesting and so do the group I run the game for


Cheers ken the champion from arcana unearthed is what gave me the idea to tie paladins to a domain and cause to start with.

Hopefully in the next week or two I will have had a chance to try creating the idea for my world which I figure will also help coming up with knightly orders as well

To the authority if I wished to play WOW which I don't I may as well bee a fool and play 4th ed which as anyone one these boards realizes is a piece of c#%p


the reason for the two ideas I mentioned was to take paladins away from their traditional build and either for the first idea tie them close to any god depending on what domain they chose. This would also allow you to work out the kinds of ethics they would have and abilities their god could grant. I could let you play the equivilent of a blackguard from first level, a build that is the traditional paladin or even something like a elemental paladin of fire. Each would have a domain they chose and each domain would grant differing powers for example the fire paladin could cause a level equivilent burninghands instead of lay on hands. A paladin of death may have setect life or something like it instead of detect evil.

The second build was to take paladins away from the gods entirely and have them as warriors that follow a strick set of codes which mirror the differing aspects of the planes.

we felt this would make them more versitile in the long run then a lot of the stuff that has been previously released. It woild also open up morw prestige classes for each paladin as well as differing prestige clases for each differing type of paladin.
In our discussions I was more a favour of the domain build as I feel it has a much greater selection of varients but I will try to get a read of the other book and see if they help.


To start with I will admit that paladins as a class annoy me and I do have an instant dislike of them, I guess its my nature.
But for the game I have decided to run (initially as 4th ed till I read it and found out how much it sucked, so we decided to try out pathfinder) I created a whole new world from scratch. Lot of this world is still under construction but for paladins we have had a few interesting conversations which could as far as I'm concerned take them to a new level.

For starters I don't like that palidins are ment to be lawful good. As far as I'm concerned this makes paladins more or less the same. They should have a set of goals codes something that defines them and their personality and alignment be it lawful good, chaotic evil or any other. One way of doing this was to tie paladins in to domains in one way or another. (Similar to the champions from arcana unearthed) this could lead to one person playing a paladin that was chaotic neutral and a beacon of destruction. While another could be the lawful good paladin of protection.
the choice of domain could lead to many different abilities and varieties of paladin like what you did with the sorceror. To top it off you would not even need to tie the paladin in with any god, but if they chose to worship they could quickly find themselves a god that shared smilar tenents to themselves.

The other idea was to completly take paladins away for the gods and tie them and their powerd into the different planes. For example a lawful evil paladin would draw power from the nine hells and a chaotic evil paladin would draw power from the abyss. These two paladins would have a similar set of morals but a completly differwnt way of approaching it and much like their devil and demon allies they would probably find themselves at conflict and may even be part of the blood war. This would be similar for lawful good, and chaotic good paladins and each group would have access to different abilities and powers. We also talked about keeping the restriction to those four alignments as they are the four extremes and much like within the plaines the cretures from these alignments are more active within the minds of the populace as they are the creatures and beings you hear about, while the creatures and beings from the other alignment keep a low profile and prefer to get the job done away from the lime light. This could help the DM make some very interesting paladins that players don't get to play and may be hard for the pary to understand.

Sorry that it is so long but I felt that as someone who dislike paladins, the discusions we had one the two aformentioned ideas had me keen to play a paladin in one of these forms. Cheers for reading and if you like the idea let me know