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Pathfinder 2e is a DEEP AND STRUCTURED game. There are rules in place for MOST of the actions a PC can try. The rules are NOT complicated or math-intensive. There are just MANY rules and MUCH depth and plenty of fun! I believe that if we dilute the mix (by abandoning even part of the structure and detail) we destroy it's flavor.
The heart of PF2 is it's remarkably intuitive, playable and FUN STRUCTURED DEPTH. It made me a PF player. PF has shed it's DNA and become its OWN game! I'm in!

My 2 coppers.

Peace and happy gaming.

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Hello fellow gamers,
I’m reading the posts here and feeling sad and frustrated. The replies to my posts don’t seem to address any of what I wrote. Maybe it’s my writing style. Don’t know.

Paizo, we have to stop adding Level to Proficiency.

Your adding Level to Proficiency, to keep the game in a nine-level range per the encounter builder.
*As the PCs level some encounter elements drop out of the game and others come in. As long as they are in the nine-level range. The elements you lose will NOT be back. Even if you want them to be they just don’ MECHANICALLY work now. That’s it.
*The elements outside of this range are outside for MECHANICAL reasons NOT Practical reasons.
*Mechanical does NOT inspire imagination. It’s math. It’s limiting. The current encounter system is based on limits.

By NOT adding level to Proficiency elements like AC, Skills and Saves are based solely on Core Abilities and base Proficiencies.
*As you level your Core Abilities will grow and give a boost to every element you have based on them.
*Proficiencies will grow based on Feats and Core Abilities.
*HP. Remember HP is NOT just Flesh and Bone. It is an abstract of staying power in a battle. It improves as you level. That is practical.
*Feats and Features. As you increase in level you will earn feats and Class features that will hone you into the Hero you envision.
*So, when you reach 20th level your AC might be 24 NOT 54 and still within the range of a creature with a +9 to hit. This low experience enemy most likely won’t come close to defeating you but it can hit you. So, if I use this enemy, I’ll use 5 or 6. But If I use it or not it’s a Practical and Organic decision NOT imposed by a 9-level limit.


Consider NOT adding level to Proficiency. Imagine the game.
Real leveling, not big numbers that just look like you leveled. No more choices forced on us by the current 9 level encounter system.

Instead, practical, Organic encounter choices. That’s what I would like to see. I want my Orcs (see


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The PF2 Encounter system keeps PCs into a center weighted, upward moving 9 level LIMIT. As PCs level and therefore proficiencies rise, so does the ENTIRE GAME. Things aren't getting more difficult, instead the numbers are just getting bigger (PCs, Monsters, Traps etc...) Leveling is more of an ILLUSION. This is not my opinion. It's the math.

Almost exclusively, depending on the Party Level, any creature in the game below the 9-level limit CAN'T MECHANICALLY HIT the PCs and the PCs can't hit the ACs of those elements above the range. What fun is that??
Consider this. One of my favorite creature/enemies is the Orc. According to PF2 when a party reaches level 7, the PCs most likely won’t be encountering Orcs anymore. Orcs in the PF2 test cap at level 2 and would be below the 7th level encounter range. Suddenly the fantasy world is Orcless! Mechanically they are out of the game.

Yes, in PF2, there are rules for tweaking stats (creating a stronger/weaker version of a particular creature) and the following is some of what PF2 says about that " .... adjustments work best with martial creatures. Spellcasters—or creatures that rely heavily on innate spells or unique, noncombat abilities—typically need more specific adjustments." So, tweaking can be a pain. If I want to create a stronger/weaker version of a creature then this is OK. But if I have to tweak a creature/encounter element to keep it IN the game then the system is flawed. I propose we go ORGANIC.

When an RPG encounter system is ORGANIC, encounter building decisions are based on “The overall chance for Success”. This is how you would judge an encounter in REAL LIFE. Hence: ORGANIC. Organic inspires the imagination.
Currently in PF2 the encounter system means...well...No Orcs much for imagination.

First step to Organic is for PF2 to STOP ADDING LEVEL TO PROFICIENCY SCORES! Then base everything on Core abilities, Background, Ethnicity, Feats and Class features-benefits. Values would then stabilize and stop bloating. What would make a PC/Creature dangerous (a PCs DC for instance) is HP, Core Abilities, Proficiency, Skills, Feats and items. Adding level to proficiency is NOT needed for this to work. This will also do away with the level-range encounter system and in turn make all game elements viable for the full 20 levels! Encounters would be built based on the DANGER expected with no forced mechanical limits. This is a better idea.

If PF2 goes more toward Organic, as I present the concept (not NECESSARILY my processes) it would give us a system where a DM can build an encounter using PRACTICAL decisions NOT mechanical rules that corral ideas. Let me have my Orcs without tweaking them. ;)

That’s my two copper pieces, for now...

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Endless adding of Level via the Proficiency/Level bonuses not only leaves about 60 erase marks on your sheet every level (LOL) but it just gives the ILLUSION of leveling. What am I going to do with a Stealth of 30...Hide from myself?

Instead, use Core Abilities, HP, items/equipment, special abilities/Feats and Skill Levels (T,E,M,L) to make us/them more dangerous as we level. It's enough. This is Organic and Natural NOT Mechanical.

Organic example:
Imagine my group is L10 and a group of 10 L1 Goblin Commandos ambush us and start chipping at 1d10 (deadly!) per hit. Could happen if my AC wasn't bulked with the Lvl bonus. And to me it's more fun!
With the current PF2 rules their Attack bonus wouldn't be high enough to mechanically hit us (without a crit). What fun is that? Mechanical.

Prof/Lvl bonuses are just bulk and have no base and no need. No disrespect intended but Prof/Lvl bonuses should be called the "Bulk" Bonuses. Encounters may look tougher with big numbers BUT the PCs that will go up against them are just as bulked. So what is the purpose? It's a leveling Illusion.

Over the years I would go to the book/game store and look at all the cool stuff I could get/collect for Pathfinder. However, I never bought because it was still 3.5 meaning bloating at every level. (YES, Many DID and DO buy. Not me; still bloated levels)

I wont play PF2 if the Prof/Lvl bonuses, old and outdated technology, are in the final. I'll stay with the 5th edition of the OTHER game that essentially dropped this effect. You know the OTHER game. I'll WANT to collect PF2 but wont because of the broken Prof/Lvl bonuses. The OTHER game has nowhere near the great source books, maps, pawns and so much more fun and useful stuff I could collect with PF2. But, to me, the OTHER game will be a better game. No bloated levels.

Paizo, remove the Prof/Lvl bonuses from PF2 and I predict that MANY (if not ALL) gamers, that play the 5th of that OTHER game, will migrate to PF2! I know I will. PF2 will be better and I will buy your stuff.

My opinion.

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Combat has to be designed to, MOST of the time, CHALLENGE players/PCs and only SOMETIMES a PC dies. Combat encounters are better when they hinder the group and/or force the expending of limited resources. Remember, when a character dies, the PLAYER is also out of the game. It's NO fun if this happens often. Character death should be rare and, if possible, NEVER casual.

To the Devs...
Rework HP, damage and refresh rules in the game for both sides so that the PCs can encounter at least 2 BALANCED battles per day and have a 90% chance to survive the first, and a 75% chance to survive the second. (with level-reasonable healing resources available)
Revisit the Damage and effects that monsters do at their level.
Recheck the Encounter building rules.
I feel that complete healing after combat is not a good idea because it severely plays down the LIFE giving aspect of HP.
Healing should be complete overnight for ALL.

My thoughts.

My response to this is "Simple is better if it works". And this does. Paizo should STRIVE to keep PF2 as simple as possible while retaining the feel of the game. The less we have to look up an over-complicated rule the better.