ewan cummins's page

40

94

96

53

14

Let's check that table...

40=Ogres

94= ooze-based humanoids

96= thri-kreen

53= medusae

14= fetchings

Eh, what? Shae based whasis? I need to look these guys up.

"Modern standards" leaves a lot open since modern standards differ so much, so that is not the best way to look at it either

Yup.

It's never really come up in play, but I have always assumed that elves IMC have a low sex drive to match their low fertility and long lifespans. That applies to the species as a whole; individuals may prove exceptions to the rule.

Calistria’s roles as a trickster and goddess of vengeance fit my take on elves just fine.

What about her aspect as a goddess of lust? I’d rule that Elves worship her in that aspect not because they are a lustful race—but because they AREN’T a lustful race. They are aware that other races breed faster and in greater numbers. Quite a few of those races are competitors or enemies of the elves. Thus, a goddess who can inspire the healthy lust that leads to babies being born holds considerable appeal as an object of worship.

In many ways, she can be seen as a goddess of things necessary for survival of the race:
• Tricking enemies (because direct combat may pose too great a risk to precious elven lives)
• Striking back at/getting revenge on enemies (to discourage future attacks and to eliminate dangerous foes)
• Lust that leads to making more elves
Ignorant humans have heard of ‘elvish lust rites’ and developed a distorted idea of Calistria’s worship among the elves.

That’s how I’d handle the topic. YMMV.

It's easy enough to change this aspect of the setting. Just rule that Calistria has only a minor following among elves. If you want further contrast with the ‘promiscuous elf’ image you have from reading the published stuff, you could rule that that elves tend to have lower sex drives to go with their long lifespans and low fertility rates.

Desna could take Calistria’s place as a prominent deity among the elves. She’s often portrayed as an elven woman. If your elves lean towards CG, as did most AD&D ‘official’ elves, then Desna may be a better fit anyway.

Maybe some humans portray Calistria as an elf not because that goddess has any special importance among elves, but because the humans in question see elves as vengeful and seductive creatures (rather like the dangerous and tricky fairies of many old European stories).

BigNorse Wolf-- your ideas help to explain why most of the evil monster races have long remained relatively primitive and often live on marginal land.

Ah, is that in Rise of the Runelords #1 then, or is it in the new Jade Regent stuff?

IF we're talking about Runelords, then I think I have to point out some chronology that has made me a bit more of a fan of Paizo of late, but I've made a number of posts about how the first three books of Runelords aren't really what I would want to run for a group that contained younger players. Paizo has since moved on to other APs which are much more suitable.

Runelords seems to have had its hiccups, and they've matured as a company since in providing their source materials. I find little today to bother me, in regards to sexual themes (like the necrophilia/incest innuendo in Hook Mountain or the needlessly descriptive death scenes in Skinsaw). Since the time of Legacy of Fire they've come quite a long way and I've found the later APs to be brilliant.

I'm pretty sure it's from Rise of the Runelords.

You may be right about the maturation of the company and product line.

@ TOZ. Fantasy in this case meaning High Fantasy, generally something akin to Tolkien. You know, that style of setting that 90% of D&D games have been set in since it began. It is generally what the word fantasy means unless there is a different context in play

I tend to disagree. Published D&D has included, from the early years (I'm talking mid '70s through the early 80s) dinosaurs, kung Fu monks, psionics, alien spacecraft, boom sticks, Cthulhu, dimension hopping, mushroom people, fearless vampire hunters,color coded dragons, a certain gunslinging paladin-wizard, various slime monsters straight out of 50s sci fi, old comic book stuff, B&W Hollywood horror flicks, Greek mythology, and a whole lot of other things. The game was a laundry list of things that Gygax and his friends liked. It's always been a weird, pulpy melange. And the things I mentioned show up in TSR published, official products.

I'm not even getting into homebrew or third party stuff.

Of course, it might be your experience of actual play is quite different from mine. As always, YMMV.

I think that Tolkien's works have had a big impact on the game mainly in the lineup of 'player races', in the ranger class, and in several monsters (orcs...cough). Beyond that? Not all that much seems to have been drawn from Tolkien. Most D&D rules and setting assumptions seem to derive from either war gaming concepts or swords and sorcery pulp fantasy (REH, Jack Vance, Fritz Lieber).

This one is rather unlikely, but fun:

Queen Elizabeth of England accepts the marriage proposal of Ivan the Terrible. Cossacks and pirates join forces. General baddassery and much killing of French people ensues.

4. As a fighter he gets class bonuses to his AC for wearing armor above what any other martial class gets while not being hampered by it to the same extent.

5. He's sinking that wealth into the much more expensive upgrades for his weapons.
6. A suit of even +1 masterwork full plate is still much less expensive than comparable magic items. (Other classes, not having armor specialization and having other roles, can't afford the non-monetary 'costs' of wearing such heavy armor.)

Right, all good reasons, all of which would apply equally to a woman who is a fighter.

Women need armor as much as men, if they are going into the forefront of battle. Witness the paladin iconic and the battle herald.

ewan cummins wrote:

I read the WSJ and Backwoodsman, but does that mean that Pazio should try to make PF products and Golarion stuff look more like the WSJ or Backwoodsman?

I guess that raises the question (and I mean no offense by this, you have been very polite in this debate) that given that you appear to be somewhat in the minority in finding a lot of the Paizo art you have mentioned inappropriate, does that mean Paizo should try to make PF or Golarion products fit your specific tastes?

Paizo is marketing to a particular audience, and despite threads like this one (though normally they would have devolved into name calling and petty recriminations by now) popping up at least once or twice a year, the majority of that audience does not seem to find the art inappropriately sexualised or impractical.

I don't think that three pages of a thread can be extrapolated into a reliable picture of the whole fanbase- or of the potential fanbase. It's not a detailed market research project. Besides, if you've been reading the thread you'd know that several posters have agreed with me in whole or part. I reject the assertion that I'm part of some small disgruntled minority that can safely be ignored.

I prefer art that I don't need to 'rationalize', because it actually looks like the sort of stuff you'd expect from reading the book,playing the game, etc.

That said, no one's trying to take away your Seoni. ;)

I'm just suggesting that Paizo scale back the fanservice and give us a little more grit to match their fairly gritty house setting. The grit level is okay now, but could be improved.

that said, to get past the art, all one has to do is remember its fatasy AND the cultures on Golarion are NOT I repeat are NOT the cultures on earth.

Cultural argument, heh? Okay....

So, it's perfectly normal for armorers in Golarion to sell women armor that doesn't protect the heart and lungs? The kill box is exposed because displaying cleavage is somehow a better defense than a barrier mail or plate with an aketon behind that?
Do they hate female warriors, or something? ;)

Having recently been given a bunch of Pathfinder stuff for Christmas, I've been looking through the books. Golarion is a pretty nifty setting! It reminds me of the World of Greyhawk and the 'Gray Box' era-FR, and that is good. The setting has depth, variety, and a little grittiness in the mix.

So much for the lavish praise, now on to my complaint:

The art quality is quite good, but there are too many cheesecake illos. I'm tired of seeing so many sexy female characters in RPG art who wear skimpy outfits, 'armor' that exposes the kill-box or the abdomen, etc.

I would like to see more variety with the looks of women in Golarion. Give us some gals who look plain, scarred, ugly, plump,frumpy, mousy, etc. I'm not saying that all the female characters have been 'too pretty', or that I object to the occasional odalisque, but dialing down the fanservice would certainly please me. Give us more hard-bitten adventuresses who look the part, and not like swimsuit or lingerie models.

The iconic paladin is a big step in the right direction. She actually looks like a credible threat and not like some fanboy's dream girl. She's wearing armor that looks designed for protection, not sex appeal. The Battle Herald illo looks really good, too. Hell, she's even got a scar on her face! Imagine that.

Does anybody else have thoughts on this one?