Judge Trabe

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I'm liking what I'm seeing here. I'm a big fan of Star Trek and I feel like your conversions really capture the various trek races.


I'm unsure about that, I don't think they could belong to the Order of the Sword since they draw power from Kiri-Jolith. The other 2 orders might be more open though they should possibly favour their order's patron more than another god of light with the exception that Paladine was revered most of all.

I don't really recall any clerics of the other gods of light being represented in the order at all.

I like how your band of heroes has shaped up, glad to see a wizard joining the ranks as well.


Sounds like a good mix. Feel free to write up some notes of your game sessions, I'd be interested in reading them :)


Do people even want him back? Who will be making a grab for the crown when he is gone. It may not be a case so much of the King can be brought back but rather will someone bring him back. If there is a prince waiting in line for the crown for instance, then he may halt the resurrection of the king.


Sadly, at $81,000 still to go, I don't think this will be funded in the 4 days it has left.


Correct. It is similar to weapon specialisation requiring 4 levels of fighter.

Loremaster would have to state something like "stacks with levels of Wizard for the purposes of selecting arcane discoveries"

That said, at your current level of wizard you would still be eligible for half of them.


As long as you have the minimum wizard levels to qualify for them you can. You are able to take them with regular feats or wizard bonus feats so probably not any loremaster bonus feats.

As an example, you won't be able to take the Golem Constructor unless you have 9 levels of wizard.


How about an Unarmed Fighter/Sorcerer [elemental earth bloodline].

I would maybe do an even split although that will severely gimp you in the spell department. Possibly move into Eldritch Knight in order to improve both combat and magic at a decent rate.

Really though I think that the elemental benders do need to have a class all their own.


CrackedOzy wrote:

Am I the only one who read the title to this and immediately thought of this -->

Spirit Fingers!

Nope. Now all I can imagine is the party's Magus suddenly busting out the spirit fingers in the middle of the fight. Take that bad guys!


Funky Badger wrote:
Drejk wrote:
Swift action to deal 5d4+4 damage is nice icing on the cake if you happen to have nothing else to do with 4th level spells.
If you have nothing better to do with a 4th level spell slot than cast a quickened magic missile then you shouldn't be allowed to play a wizard.

See, now I want to make a wizard that casts nothing but metamagic missiles in every spell slot. Although actually that might be kinda boring to play but it would be interesting to see how useful you can make your magic missiles.

Might have to look for the force missile mage and patherfinderise it.


Yep, it is a good site. I'm glad I found it when I was hunting around for dragonlance pathfinder updates.


Did you find Guile's World? He has done quite a few updates for pathfinder although I don't think he has for a while now. I'm not sure how much he has done to bring classes up to the PF standard. Also I don't think he is working on it anymore.


If this is for home play: check with your DM cause with home play almost anything can go. My personal belief is that the races are the exemplars of that Archetype, others may belong to it but be few and far between. This is also known as "Don't let the rules get in the way of the game"

If this is for PFS: Unless there is a FAQ which specifically says you can then it might be best to match race and archetype exactly rather than trying to run a half-blood with a parent race's archetype.


Themes help cusomise your character, they can be attached to any class (iirc) so you can have both a fighter or a wizard who have the noble theme. They would have some bonuses attached and you would be able to choose a handful of powers from the theme instead of your class as you leveled.

Think of them as small archetypes for anybody.


I'm not a huge fan of 2handed weapons anyway, the concept has to match the fighting style so I may use a 2H weapon for a brute but more than likely I use either sword/shield or 2 weapons.

Sometimes the build is based off of the picture I use to represent my character so I build using the weapons shown in the picture.


I was just thinking that you could use the spell point system (i.e. the psionic system) for working out mana. Then give each planeswalker a maximum amount of mana per colour that they could use.

Their primary colour could use the maximum amount of spell points mana but their secondary colours might only be able to use half the maximum. Sorry if I'm not super clear, I can only half-remember the rules for power points.

It would require only a minimal amount of extra book-keeping since you just need to add a list of the colours and the maximum level you can cast each colours spells at. So a 5th level Blue mage who dabbles in black magic might be listed at Blue:5, Black: 3; strong in blue magic but unable to charge as much mana into black magic.

Actually I guess this works just as well with spell slots...


Atarlost has a decent breakdown of the colours. I think it is far easier to move spells on a case by case basis than to do the entire list at the beginning. This saves time and with players aware of the colours of magic they will be aware that a blue mage won't be flinging around fireballs.

Divination is also black but on a much smaller scale. One of the things that has happened in magic recently is some minor bleed between the colours. Black magic's divinations normally require some kind of sacrifice to use though.

I did half heartedly start making a sorcerer bloodline that dealt with MtG, can't remember what I ended up with but I know it was no where close to finished so I will be interested in seeing where your class ends up.

Finally, if all the players are planeswalkers then having planeshift at level 1 isn't really an issue. I would say that until they reach higher levels that their planeshift ability is plot driven rather than player driven, just my thoughts on it.


If it was an orc/elf crossbreed then it might warrant a new half orc/elf crossbreed race. For an orc/half-elf cross I would say use half-orc as I would see the orc side as dominant.


One of my problems I have when playing in Dragonlance is that I like the prestige classes as a whole however, I also like the relative simplicity of single classes from 2nd edition. I will admit though that taking that first level of WoHS is kinda exciting as it cements you in the orders and lore of Krynn.

I'm undecided about the KoS prestige classes. The original ones you had to work through the prestige classes to get to Rose I quite liked as it was similar to 2nd edition. Then they later changed it so that moving through the orders was back story and you could just take the prestige class of each order without levels in the lower ranks.


You might find this of use. I haven't worked on it for a month or so but it contains my initial notes for dragon PCs. Admittedly it is for a Council of Wyrms type setting where all the players play dragons so you may prefer to go with the Savage Species style of of play.

council of wyrms notes

Note that I normalised the dragons a fair bit so that they all have similar ability bonuses that are also modified by dragon colour and their breath weapons all use the same die type for damage. I did this so that people wouldn't think to themselves, why play a white dragon when I can play red of gold.


Shalafi2412 wrote:
So I decided to run a DL Age of Mortals campaign at home.

I'd be interested to hear any conversions that you are using or whether you are planning on running the game with classes as is and the orders are more just flavour.

I was thinking that the Sage bloodline would be good for a sorcerer, especially for ones who have epiphanies later on and join the WoHS. You could also alter the bonus spells to reflect the realms of sorcery so that a sage bloodline sorcerer can specialise in a realm.

Will you be using factions for orders of knights or anything (primarily I'm interested in how the faction rules are used since I haven't used them yet) .


Anry wrote:
Yep. And originally wolverine's claws weren't retractable and the creators were first thinking of just making them a part of his gloves.

I feel they made the right decision in making them retractable.


Midnight_Angel wrote:
Atarlost wrote:
Spontaneous casters use the worst casting stat possible, get delayed spell access, can't use metamagic without surrendering their move actions, and get fewer spells known than a penniless wizard. One of those prices is reasonable. Two are okay. Three are excessive. All four are WotC begrudgingly offering non-vancian magic in the hopes that if they could make it suck enough people would stop requesting it.

Actually, what I have a gripe with is the fact that the Sorcerer gets shafted when entering a new spell level.

All the 6-Level progressions start their new spell level with two known spells.
The Oracle gets three (one pick, one from the mystery, one from the cure/inflict list)
The Sorcerer gets one. Sorry, but Bloodline spells kick in a level later than the Oracle's mystery spells, nice to screw ya.

I do think that the 1 level later acquisition of the sorcerer spells is a little weird, that weirdness is why they have been houseruled to get them when they gain their new spell level instead.


If the player can somehow manhandle a ballista so that it is within range for a sneak attack then yes. Although this should be reserved for comedic effect.


Vellas wrote:
Being able to take weapon focus is not needed to sneak attack, you would not deny a player the ability to sneak attack with a fork they pick up in a tavern...Just sayin

The real question is would you deny a player taking weapon focus: cutlery? OK admittedly it would probably have to be WF: fork but seeing someone with WF: Cutlery on their character sheet would be awesome.


Evil druids? sure. Undead druids? I don't see why not. Don't let the game get in the way of the playing the game.

And as for killing/eating animals being a no no for druids. If the druid embraces/reveres the savage nature of the hunt then animals of the world better watch out as these savage druids may kill them and eat their hearts to gain there power.

Basically, not all druids have to be nature loving hippies, some of them are more than willing to dip into the primal aspects of nature.

This was my 2 cents.


I think if they did take the test and they relied most heavily on their weapons over their magic that they most likely would not pass the test and those tests are generally a pass or die kind of scenario.

Something else which might happen is that they pass the test but their weapon hand is crippled in order to teach them to rely on their magic.


That's what it says, so that's what it is. You would first have to get your CL up to 22 of course which I assume is possible.

The trait gifted adept and allied spellcaster would do the trick as long as both of you have the feat and gate spell memorised. Plus the orange ioun stone mentioned by tonyz.


Well they do still mention the inclusion of a dagger in the list of allowed weapons is because of Magius being left with nothing to defend himself with so it seems to still be implied that they aren't big on using weapons/armour outside what is allowed by the wizard class.

I would say their renegade hunters would still use magic as opposed to more diverse weapons and armour.

That said, the setting doesn't really take the Magus class into account since it wasn't around. I would probably prefer that their be fighter/wizard as opposed to a magus but that is just me.


I was going to create an archetype for the High Sorcerer (Or perhaps 1 for each order) including having different spell progression based on the 1e rules. Instead I decided to leave the wizard as is and created an arcane discovery which allows access to the magic of the moons. The extra spells granted in the 2e book became spontaneous spells like the bonded object ability.

The restrictions on taking the arcane discovery is that you must be a member of the wizards of high sorcery. I might have to have a look at the factions book to see if I can use anything in that which might be relevant for creating the WoHS faction.


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Steve Geddes wrote:

Making things like good drow, claustrophobic, clean shaven dwarves and altruistic undead always seems gimmicky to me. I prefer my stereotypes.

Heh, I'm pretty sure that the outcast good drow now outnumber the evil drow. There is probably only a handful of evil drow in the underdark who are wondering where the rest went.


Yeah, some changes I feel don't need to be made. Deathless only came around in 3.5 because they (WotC) wanted good undead but didn't want them powered by negative energy because negative energy is "evil".

I think the negative energy = evil trend started at the beginning of 3.0 when healing magics changed from being a necromantic effect to a conjuration effect.

Of course there are probably plenty of people who like the change and even more who are somewhat ambivalent.


My personal retcon is that the deathless subtype does not exist...


Haha, sorry, the first thing I thought of was the cartoon Eek the cat.


Also, make him a catfolk and call him Eek, because it never hurts to help... You might need to give him toughness.

Feel free to ignore, I'm kinda tired and drifting off on to strange tangents.


It seems most people are against the poor Universalist wizard. However, since you likely have a decent strength the universalist's ability to throw his weapon might be kind of useful since you will be able to do your regular weapon damage and won't have to pick up a ranged weapon.

Although you will likely have a have a lower total attack bonus unless your fighter already has a high intelligence.


Just had a thought, why not create a prestige class where the player takes on the powers and form of a lich, kinda like the dragon disciple class?


MMCJawa wrote:
Azaelas Fayth wrote:


I can't find the Cover... it is an old book... (Print date is late 1800s)

Not really... Cover had the best depiction of King Arthur on the inside.

The front had the best Knotwork Letter I have ever seen... plus without the cover this book went from 1500 USD to around 0.01 USD...

Given that again, the oldest even vague references to King Arthur are 8th century at best would suggest that at best this is a fictional retelling of Arthurian legend, since there does not appear to have been any sort of record of a Roman version of the legend

Well if Arthur did exist then he might be able to be placed in the 5th Century AD which was during the fall of the Roman empire. If this is the case then it is entirely possible that his legend extends from that time.

I think the earliest references that you cite are from a writer from the early 800s who compiled information about Arthur which would then place Arthur at an earlier point. Of course we have no idea how much the author changed for his own purposes.

About the player becoming a lich I would say "Let him!" don't let things like the supposed alignment of a lich get in the way of the game. You may want to have him sacrifice a level when he undergoes the change though since he is gaining a lot of power in the process.


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The elves of the forgotten realms setting had liches who weren't evil. they were essentially powerful mages who wished to continue serving the elven kingdoms in death. They had a different name for them but really they were just liches.


Perhaps try this. Grab a piece of paper and draw the home town of the players in the centre. Around the town put adventure locations like "Wizard's Tower" and "Ancient Graveyard". Rather than making up adventures for each site at once ask your players where they want to go next and then develop that, you could also ask what the player's expect to find there and build on their expectations.

The stories don't have to be complicated to begin with, you can keep them simple and fun and then add more detail as the game develops.

I recall the OD&D adventure quest for the silver sword, it was broken down into essentially the following.

1. A town has an unnatural winter.
2. Heroes hired to investigate the source.
3. Heroes travel to the source and explore a dungeon.
4. Heroes defeat the baddies, release another group of adventurers and stop the source of the unnatural winter.

It doesn't have to be more complicated than that.


Oh yeah the corruption, I'd forgotten about that. Considering it was a big part of the whole "magic is dangerous" aspect I really should have remembered.


Yeah, really speaking, the DL dragons are sorcerors although I guess there were some examples of them using magic like wizards. The WoW dragons do that whole partition thing in their minds.

For DL wizards in PF I created an arcane discovery that gave them access to the moons of magic at 5th level. You could easily treat the wizards as specialists as well, perhaps making them specialise in a school of magic related to their order after the test much like you can do with the Wizard of High Sorcery prestige class.


Been a while since I've looked at the book but from what I can recall as you levelled up in the Scholar class you gained access to new schools of magic and their associated basic spell. As you levelled you gained access to more schools and also to advanced spells. Rather than spell slots the spells used spell points which you only had a limited number of but could gain more through sacrifice or rituals or meditation (pretty sure, it has been a while).

The spells didn't contain a lot of flashy spells since there weren't a lot of flashy spells in the Hyborian age. You still had necromantic spells and nature magic spells and I think certain spells had a chance of running wild.

I also liked that there were two ways to learn the summoning school. Straight away via a pact with a demon which was also a source of spell knowledge or as a master of words and signs from 12th level onwards (might be 15th) which is basically you mastering the demons rather than making pacts with them.


Yep, the d20 Conan: Atlantean Edition. It was a core class for that system.

I also liked the scholar class which was essentially the default class for priests and sorcerers although you could take extra skill points and feats instead of the magic abilities. The magic system was completely different from D&D/PF but I felt really fit the setting.


The noble in Conan d20 was pretty cool. I like how they flavoured it by having a class ability influenced by the region you came from. It meant that a Stygian noble was different from an Aquilonian noble.

I think generally the bonuses built a bit on race bonuses.


Ascalaphus wrote:

Yeah, I also don't think you should take off people's heads when they inquire about a GM's ruling.

GMs make mistakes now and then. Shocking, I know, but it's really true.

They sometimes make rulings that run counter to RAW, and thereby render certain abilities way weaker than the developers intended them to be. Not always out of a conscious decision to change RAW, but out of ignorance or misunderstanding.

In such a case, doing research as a player and bringing it back to the GM isn't morally reprehensible. Then the GM has the option to intentionally diverge from RAW.

Exactly, DMs can't be expected to remember everything and queries like this will help both DM and player better understand the game.

Of course when I run games I tend to have a "don't let knowledge of the rules or lack thereof get in the way of a good game". I'm sure there are many others out there with the same mentality.


@hutonj: Actually, Occam's Razor doesn't state that it is meant to mislead, you may be using it incorrectly and at any rate Occam's razor only helps to formulate a hypothesis and is not used for final and accurate results.

I see no reason why he can't be asking the forums for advice on both his and his DM's behalf, much as he mentioned in his first post. Maybe it is just me but I prefer to believe in people unless there is evidence which makes me reevaluate my position.


It might be better to spend them on the spell focus feats instead since that only requires 2 feats rather than 4 for the same benefit. Unless you were already going to take those and were looking for more stacking bonuses...


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@hustonj No matter how you try to justify it, you really weren't being helpful. Especially your first post where you just assumed he was looking for support against his GM and slammed him for it.

You'll note that he says "Were[sic] looking for rules as written" which implies that both he and his GM are looking for the information.

Maybe if you hadn't used snarky language and instead said something like "Check out www.d20pfsrd.com and search for compulsions" then you may not have come off as unhelpful and troll-like.


Wouldn't really high will saves be a reason for increasing your enchantment DCs so that you actually have a chance at affecting those high level creatures?

I do agree it is a large feat investment though, particularly if the low level feats aren't of much use to your character.

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