borg286's page

The PFS note says if you use it to fill a 5' cube you can use it for either cover or concealment, but not both, although it doesn't block line of sight. That's a good cantrip!

Can you provide a link to this note?

In III.b.i the font changed. Seems like a copy-paste error. You should have pasted it with Ctrl+shift+v

Your rating of prescient consumable should be blue. You rated it merely green due to restricting your view to only potion. Consumables includes scrolls. Given that general feats are lacking, trick magic item stands out. Combined with prescient consumable you can have a staggeringly large array of non-combat spells at the ready.

Here is a sheet of spells that would be useful for this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1A5RptcITraMlJ7db_wilQVqSF_UNJZhxcLN M-vvSUYg/edit?usp=drivesdk

yeah you got one hour then its stuck

What other starfinder forums are the most popular that do allow editing? I had considered reddit, but long-lived guides there don't mesh well with the moving window that reddit does where it ages out old posts.

I'm just now realizing that I may not be able to edit my original post. Is that a known limitation of the forum here?

KPR King Candidates
Submit your damage-focused build and read about others. Compare notes and find new exploits. See if you have what it takes to become the KPR king.

Intro
KPR King Candidates is a thread to gather builds focused on damage. We group them into level 1, 5, 10, 15, and 20 and provide a sample monster to attack, made of tofu. While this isn't realistic, it provides a clean slate to compare builds. Below I take you through what KPR is, how to calculate it, the rules of the game, and at the end see the rankings. Obviously we'll see solarians at the top, but are there some tips from the highest technomancer you could use? Perhaps Envoys aren't as weak as you thought. Let's optimize together and build something greater!

What is KPR? What is DPR?
Unrealistic damage
So you've got a Reactor Core Hammer which deals 15d6 E & F damage and when it crits blasts through to another creature for another 8d6 and we attack 3 times as a solarian. So critting 3 times could theoretically deal 684 maximum damage alone, but the chances of that are slim. Can we get more realistic?

Average Damage on a hit
Instead of taking maximum we take averages, so let's start by ignoring crits for now. A d6 could be 1,2,3,4,5 or 6, which averages to 3.5 (ie. average between min and max (1+6)/2. Since we roll 15 of them the average damage is 15*3.6 = 52.5. 3 attacks means 157.5 average damage on a hit.

Damage on a hit = (number of dice rolled) * (die max + 1)/2 + static damage bonuses

DPR
Using triple attack imposes a -6 to your attack roll. We're less likely to hit but how do we account for this? We'd have to know the target's AC. We make an oversimplification by pitting you against a monster with CR=your character level. Not every battle is just you and a single leveled monster duking it out, but it gives us a good place to start from that all other builds will be compared against. Here are the guidelines for creating a monster. We'll use the Combatant. Feel free to argue for a different base, or an average of the 3 types of base creatures.

DPR accounts for one's chance to hit. Below we've picked out the HP and AC from the above monster creation guidelines. But if we wanted to calculate DPR for another level w/o looking it up we could use KAC=1.24*level + 12.5, EAC=1.24*level + 10.5
For our Level 20 character we're facing a CR 20 foe thus 1.24*20+10.5=35 EAC.
We have a +24 to hit after +20(BAB) +1(Weapon Focus) -6(Full Attack penalty) + 1(flashing strikes). We have to roll a 11 to hit, ie. 50% chance to hit. Thus we take our average damage on a hit and take 50% of that to get our expected damage before we attack, or how much damage we'll probably get per round if we tried attacking over and over again.

DPR = (chance to hit) * (average damage on a hit)
Chance to hit = 1-(DC-bonus-1)/20

Accounting for crits
But what if we crit? Since our damage is doubled 5% of the time and normal the other 95% we do X 95% of the time, and 2x 5% of the time.
0.95*x + 0.05*2x = 0.95*x+0.05*x+0.05*x = 1*x+0.05*x = 1.05*x
Put simply we multiply our DPR by 1.05. Any extra crit damage we average out and multiply by 0.05 and add it to our DPR.
For our Reactor Core Hammer we claim a foe is in position and add 0.05*28 = 1.4 DPR, not that much extra DPR in the end sadly.

KPR
DPR is great for estimating how much damage we will probably do to a leveled monster, but can we tell how good it is compared with other builds that are equally focused on damage but just at a different level? If DPR is like an ACT score, KPR is like getting a GPA score for whatever grade you are in. By factoring your level (age) out we get an effective grade that compares across levels (ages). We do this by simply dividing our DPR by this same nondescript combatant's HP we get a ratio of his HP that we expect we'll chew through each round, ie. how much of a monster we've killed each round, or Kills Per Round (KPR). This makes it easy to compare builds below apples to apples regardless of what level they are playing and judge them objectively.
Below I give you the HP to divide by, but if you want to do this math for a different level here is some math

We use the following formula for HP (I used google sheets to get polynomial fit for the HP column)

Enemy HP = 0.896*Level^2 + 4.35 * Level + 19.1

KPR = DPR / (0.896*Level^2 + 4.35 * Level + 19.1)

Putting it all together
KPR = (1 - (1.24*Level + 10.5 - my_to_hit - 1)/20) * (average damage on a hit) * 1.05 / (0.896*Level^2 + 4.35 * Level + 19.1)

So what is a good KPR value?

A party of 4 facing 4 leveled monsters will typically last 4-5 rounds, so the average party member is contributing enough to effectivly kill 1 monster over 4 rounds, so dealing 25% of his HP per round on average, ie. 0.25 KPR. Now not every member is dishing out this much damage. The Envoy is relying on you to pack a big punch, so treat 0.25 as the baseline with a goal of 0.3 or 0.4 KPR. Your nova round you may be dealing 1.5 KPR, which is fine. Hitting 0.8 KPR every encounter and the DM may find it difficult to challenge you w/o one-shotting your team mates. Starfinder should be designed to limit this. The builds you'll see below may challenge that design goal.

Guidelines

• • You can use daily resources as long as you can repeat your setup 4 times per day. For example a Technomancer with 2x4th level slots and 3x3rd level slots spending a single 3rd/4th level spell for an enounter-long buff, must quote the KPR assuming he is using the 3rd level slot, not the better 4th level spell.
  
• • You can spend up to 70% of your Wealth By Level limit on gear.
  
• • You can buy items up to your Level + 1. If you craft it you have to have the engineering ranks.
  
• • Personal upgrades must be accompanied with what level you gain them as it matters for ability increases.
  
• • You must buy armor and list your defensive stats (KAC, EAC, Fort, Ref, Will). I'll be calculating the monster's KPR vs you so people know how much of a glass cannon you are.
  
• • Assume there is a Melee ally and a Ranged ally, each doing 0.25 KPR. If you give them a bonus to hit of +1 this effectively bumps their KPR by 5%, thus you claim 0.025 KPR for yourself.
  
• • AoE and multi-target attack will be marked explicitly. State the size/conditions for your AoE/Multi-target attack. No conversion to single-target KPR will happen and I'll decide where to place you.
  

Submitting a build
You only need to provide enough details to justify your KPR, provided you keep to the guidelines above. Everything else is optional.

Sample Build

(Ranged)
Weak Willy
Soldier 4 / Operative 1
Race: Human
Theme: Athlete

• •Str: 19(10+4(points) +2(human) +1(theme) +1(5th))
  
• •Dex: 14(10+2(points)+2(5th))
  
• •Con: 16(10+4(points)+2(5th))
  
• •Wis: 12(10+2(5th))
  
• •Int: 10
  
• •Cha: 10
  

Feats: Weapon Focus(Small Arms), Mobility, Spring Attack
Weapon: Sting Pistol, Ant(2,150 credits) 1d8 A & B
Armor: Kalo Encounter Suit, I(1980 credits) EAC: 11(7+2 dex), KAC: 13(8+2)
Items: Ring of Resistance II(735 credits), Personal Upgrade MK1(1,400 credits) @5th level
Fort: +7(4(soldier)+1(Ring)+2(Con))
Ref: +6(1(Soldier)+1(Ring)+2(operative)+2(Dex)
Will: +8(4(Soldier)+2(Operative)+1(Ring)+1(Wis))
HP: 38(4(human)+7*4(Soldier)+6(Operative))
SP: 45(4*7(Soldier) + 1*6(operative)+ 4*2(Con)+1*3(Con))

Concept
This build is based on picking some arbitrary class choice and using a sub-optimal weapon just to showcase what an example build would look like, if I was trying to make it easy to read.

KPR
To Hit: +7(+4 (BAB) +1(WF)+4(Str)-2(full attack))
Damage: 6.5(1d8+2(Weap Spec))
KPR: (1-(17-7-1)/20)*2*1.05*6.5/70 = 0.1 KPR

Glossary and Cheese

Below you'll find common terms and names of exploit sets commonly used. If there is a particular valid interpretation of the rules that enough people say wouldn't fly at their table I'll likely tag your build with the name of that cheesey exploit so others know it relies on something questionable and to check with their DM before building around it.

========================================================================
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KPR Candidates
Level 1

Target Enemy

KAC:13 ,EAC:11
HP:20
Fort +3, Ref+3, Will+1
Spending Budget: 700 credits

Melee

• • <Your build here>
  

Ranged

• • <Your build here>
  

=======================================================================
Level 5

Target Enemy

KAC:19 ,EAC:17
HP:70
Fort +7, Ref+7, Will+4
Spending Budget: 6300 credits

Melee

• • <Your build here>
  

Ranged

• • <Your build here>
  

=======================================================================
Level 10

Target Enemy

KAC:25 ,EAC:23
HP:165
Fort +12, Ref+12, Will+9
Spending Budget: 46200 credits

Melee

• • <Your build here>
  

Ranged

• • <Your build here>
  

=======================================================================
Level 15

Target Enemy

KAC:31 ,EAC:29
HP:275
Fort +17, Ref+17, Will+13
Spending Budget: 350000 credits

Melee

• • <Your build here>
  

Ranged

• • <Your build here>
  

=======================================================================
Level 20

Target Enemy

KAC:37 ,EAC:35
HP:465
Fort +21, Ref+21, Will+17
Spending Budget: 2642500 credits

Melee

• • <Your build here>
  

Ranged

• • <Your build here>
  

I guess I had been used to the raven having the ability to speak and thus qualified for casting. I see that the language(x) is effectivly required. One more question on that line: Can the fairy dragon cast from a wand with 3rd level spells? I know the rule is that the spell needs to be on your spell list, but do you need to be of the right spell level? It would seem broken that a 1st level wizard could cast SM 9 if he somehow got a wand of it. I would have thought that this would have been exploited more commonly if it was possible. If not then that restricts the dragon familiar to autocasting 1,2 level sorcerer spells, and UMD all other wands.

And a quick simple question: is DR 5/magic overcome with most damaging spells or do you have to have an enchanted weapon?

I'm having a hard time finding a guide that explains the ins and outs and best options. I've read the wizard guides and they don't touch on the mechanics much.
If I've read correctly you take the familiar exploit, improved familiar feat, pick something with a high cha and opposable thumbs and the ability to speak, take ranks in UMD, buy and hand your familiar a wand of low level buffing and he simply uses UMD (using his own cha) to cast from the wand. Why is improved familiar required in this chain, or is it the cheapest way to get a high cha/UMD bonus?

Notice that I take this feat at level 3.
Also note that I take either leadership or familiar at level 7. I'm assumming that if leadership was banned that I'd also swap out craft wondrous item for familiar and use my level 7 slot for improved familiar. Seeing that I want to go for batman and staying pure neutral for the fiendish/celestial/entropic/resolute templates on my summons is a huge option that would go away if I had any alignment than true neutral, I don't think the Imp is even possible. Or can you take imp and be neutral? Does the familiar have to use UMD to cast from a wand?

I think the Occultist wins out. By sacrificing spells, you will get the most summons per day and 9th level spells without spending a single gold piece. Grab a familiar and Imp. Familiar feat to have a buddy cast buffs spells from wands to further boost the power of your summons.

Also take the Evolved Familiar feat, if it is allowed.

It seems that occultist is the winner here.

Because it's my thread I'm fine with allowing the conversation to transition into what you'd do with evolved familiar. It seems quite a bit of a feat investment. The benefits are great, but can you help me or direct me to guides that explain why.
I'd guess that skilled(UMD) is why you'd take evolved familiar. is that because you'd get a higher chance of casting from better wands, or does the familiar gain your ability to cast wizard wands w/o rolls due to the spells being on your spell list? Is this the recommended way of shoring up the cost of consuming your lower level spell slots for summon monster SLA, namely paying for the lower level buffs you were going to cast but ate instead, and getting a familiar to cast them for you as they are always helpful?

I haven't even joined a group. I'm mostly just theorycrafting. I wanted some good-ole wisdom from the masses if my ponderings were biased towards standard action SM, 9th level spells, and such. I think that the "in this way" conditional takes the choice down to just master summoner for low level and times when the team needs more front-line meat, and arcanist for higher level play and if no need for lots of meat.

Ah, I misread the conditional

An occultist cannot have more than one summon monster spell active in this way at one time. If this ability is used again, any existing summon monster immediately ends.

This does seem to allow the arcanist to do full round casting for the cases when he needs to call upon some other spell/feature of his summons while his tanks don't go pop. The arcanist does seem to have enough lower level prepared spells.

I'm torn between 4 options of building a summoner-like character

The things I want are BC, damage, batman style versatility, and redirecting damage to expendable pawns.

The 4 builds to accomplish this are as follows
1. 1/2 Elf Master summoner (master)

2. Stock summoner (stock)

3. Human Arcanist (occulstist)

4. Halfling wizard (with the Academae Graduate feat and Alchemical Preserves)

On the summoning spectrum we have
1. 5+cha(master) of the highest summons,
2. 3+cha(stock) but exclusive with the beastly and better eidolon
3. x times per day(arcanist) bought by expending lower level spells
4. Pure prepared(wizard) but where pearls of power work and emulate the arcanist but costing money instead of slots

on the batman spectrum (read has the widest array of problem solving spells and options in his belt):
1. master's spell list and eidolon are good but not stellar,
2. stock has eidolon's +1 attack / level (not batman, but solves many combat problems quickly where normal casters would slow down combat with tangles, webs, tentacles, and gasses),
3. arcanist has quick study (1 round to swap out prepared/known spell casting as sorcerer),
4. wizard (nuff said).

One of the big problems that the middle 2 people have are that they can only have 1 summon spell out at a time. stock summoner rarely would use his summons and becomes a thin wrapper around his eidolon, and occultist trying to be batman can easily cast SM [max] as standard on round 1 of every combat, but then his entire SM utility list is locked down to that choice he made. The master and wizard don't suffer the same but pay different prices. Master pays with having the summoners spell list and a pocket eidolon. Wizard pays with needing to consume spell slots for SM (he may be the least hurt due to the sheer number of slots he can prepare).

A DM's decisions could make one option clearly worse than others. Like banning Leadership, ruling that master summoner's eidolon's evolutions' class level requirements are affected by the archetype, Academae Graduate is banned or my body no longer reacts to the jelly, or that a kali build is too powerful, or that I would be overshadowing the front-line fighters, or that master summoner is simply banned.

What are your thoughts between these 4 builds? Mostly I'm looking at reducing this list down to just 2 builds that hinge on how much I'm willing to sacrafice batmaning for raw damage