Goldsmith

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Well I've got 10 Fire Beetles. Wanna trade?


here's some options for getting minis fairly cheap.

go to the Minis Database first. It's got almost every mini d&d ever made in a searchable database. Find the minis you want.

ddmdb.com

then go to an ebay store that combines shipping and get the minis you want. You can usually find a mini that looks like your character for a dollar. I like Jez Hideout. It's a good ebay store that combines shipping.

Jez Hideout

Troll & Toad sells them by the bag but they're more expensive than going the eBay route and you don't get to cherry pick what you get. I ordered a random bag from them once and got a bunch of duplicates of bugs.


I just ran this game in Pathfinder. The easiest way to convert is to find a Pathfinder equivalent of the monsters in the PF Bestiary. Some of the critters are unique and you'll need to get creative there.

Also, the storyline is a little skeletal. You'll need to flesh it out a bit. The mod gives you 3 extensive dungeons and the ghost of a story. You'll need to put in some time on your own to come up with recurring NPCs and a motivation as to why the party is exploring the dungeons. In the mod they're doing it for money, and not very much. The motivation in the story is lacking.

Also, it's very hard. The first dungeon seemed fine. The 2nd a little tough. The 3rd is friggin' impossible. My characters gave up and didn't finish the last dungeon because it was suicide. I've read several reviews of the mod and everybody else says the same thing. You'll need to pay extra attention to that part.

Another complaint I have is that there's not a big bad guy and a climactic battle ending. I had Baron Surinak end up as a recurring bad guy that the players encountered several times. You can run the story that Surinak is working with Drow to open a gate to another plane. At the end you find that he succeeded and you find him dead, killed by a demon he summoned--cue climactic final battle to decide the fate of the world.

Playing once a week, we finished the campaign in 3 months. I had to throw in side-treks in between the dungeons to level the party up to where they needed to be. A player got bit by a wererat in the first dungeon. I had a sidetrek where they needed to take out a wererat thieves' guild in order to get the character cured(again I needed to create my own motivation). The wererats were working with Surinak and that's where I introduced him.

In between the 2nd and 3rd dungeons I had a nephew of Surinak, an evil cleric, attempting to raise zombies from the bones of demons left over from the war. Evil Clerics in PF are brutal.

You can download the PDFs for it for free(4shared.com). Who pays for 3rd edition material anymore? The best part of Pathfinder is being able to easily convert 3e material that's free. I'm about to start Red Hand of Doom and Expedition to Castle Ravenloft--downloaded 'em both for free.


I usually make fumbles comical but not damaging mechanically. The characters end up with facial scarring or missing fingers that don't actually affect gameplay but give the characters some, you know, character.

I once had a ranger shoot his pet dog with a manyshot on a natural 1. He was trying to fire over the dog's head. The dog died :)


thanks. I caught that right before I got to play. I'm still thinking like it's 2nd edition.

Man, there are some angry people in the cleric threads that talk about armor. I bet Jason Bulmahn got death threats for that one.


It's pretty obvious that the armor issue on the druids isn't perfect. Allowing Shield Bonuses seems silly, disallowing the Bracers of Armor does too.

I'm thinking we might houserule the Shield Bonus out, houserule the Bracers in and make Barkskin last 1hr/lvl instead of 10min/lvl for druids so that it can be on more consistently. I'm going to spend every penny of money I've got on magical armor but since I don't have to buy weapons it makes sense. That still leaves a fairly low AC but maybe it's meant to be balanced that way. We'll see how it works out in practice.

A Ring of Force Shield would still provide a shield bonus.


Druids can trade any spell for a summoning spell in the same way that clerics can trade any spell for a healing spell. Augmented Summoning for a druid would be wonderful.

The summons aren't great at lower levels so I'm not bothering with them right now. I plan on picking up Spell Focus(conjuration) as my 7th lvl feat and Augmented Summoning for 9th.


What about Bracers of Armor? That'd still work in animal form right? It'd get expensive in a hurry but it's better than nothing.


I didn't know that. thanks.

My GM is okay with the animal armor idea. I'm going to be a Dire Ape and since the animal has thumbs I can put it on myself. There are rules for barding in the book so this seems to be perfectly okay within the RAW.

Hide armor for a large animal weighs 50 pounds. A normal backpack only holds 60 so I'll have to get a Handy Haversack. I'm fine with that. I can get my AC to the low 20s at lvl 5 or 6 pretty easy. Like you said in the guide, it's less than a fighter's but not bad.


I really appreciate you putting in the time to make this guide for us. Me and my friends have just started playing and your guides have been invaluable to us. This one's convinced me to play a druid as my first character when I get done with my DMing duties. I do have a few questions though.

In the SotB part you have this in your combat comparison:

"He keeps a Greater Magic Fang up on himself and his Ape animal companion all the time, he also casts Barkskin twice before expected combats."

How can you cast those spells twice?

Another question: what do you think about the barding for an animal form that Damien_DM mentioned? Simple Hide armor is only 30gp and weighs 50lb for a large creature. If I had a Handy Haversack and toted around armor for the form that I'll generally take for combat then I get a +4 AC. It might be tedious swapping out and I wouldn't get that AC bonus if I take a different form but do you think it's a viable option?


it's why Gamers is so hilarious. It makes fun of this stuff. A 6'6" barbarian breaks his back trying to pull open a gate, because he rolled a 1, but an elf with a 6 strength tears it off like he's a 1000 pound gorilla, because he rolled a 20.

I want to try and jump over the empire state building....if I roll a 20 I have to make it! It's in the rules!


I read a thread a little while ago about how bows would lose their strength if they were strung all the time, or how a crossbow would probably fire on accident if you carry it around loaded, or how bowstrings would get burned up in a flame spell. Nobody plays like that, it wouldn't be fun.

Life is complicated. If the game had to account for everything in life you'd have to throw 3 or 4 physics books in between the sections for Race and Class. Houserule the parts that bug you but there's always going to be something that doesn't equate perfectly to reality...cuz it's not reality.

I agree with the previous poster about wanting some realism though. I DMed a game when I was a teenager once, 2nd edition. Daggers didn't make any sense to me. You ever tried to throw a knife? It's freakin' hard. I told them that daggers had a crazy small chance of hitting and gave them minuses for it. I never got to DM again :) Gotta find that point of balance I guess.


thanks! I'll figure out this game one of these days. I'm glad there are resources like that on the net.

Frankly, the core rulebook does an awful job at explaining the game. I never played 3rd edition and I think the book assumes that you have. I've come close to ditching PF and playing 4.0 several times because it was so hard to understand.


ah okay. so Bracers of Armor don't stack with, say, a suit of chain mail but an Amulet of Natural Armor does because it's a different bonus type?


So what bonuses are there aside from shield and armor? Is natural armor different? If this is spelled out in the rulebook feel free to give me a page number and I'll look it up but I can't seem to come across anything that looks like a list.


thanks for the input, FB. I read that link you sent a little while ago actually. I hope you didn't mind me hijacking your thread but it's why I posted here. I've seen several of your posts saying that you play an effective negative-channeling cleric and figured you'd be the guy to ask.

I didn't know the rings didn't stack. Man, this game's complicated. There always seems to be another little tripping me up. I'm learnin' though!


When you run up against undead you can try the Command Undead feat and use that negative channel to possibly control them. I'm not sure how well that works out in practice but it's something the negative cleric has going for them in that respect.


I'm rolling up a Human, Lawful Neutral, Cleric 5/Fighter 1 character right now that's built for channel negative energy and Animate Dead. He's starting at that level and I haven't played him yet. I'm new to PF. Since you're playing a character like this, could you look at what I've got and see if I'm missing something?

Abilities 14, 10, 10, 10, 14, 17.

I'll need 2 stat boosters to get 9th lvl spells. I don't optimize by dropping stats. I don't want to play a character that's dumb or sickly or clumsy.

Feats: Selective Channeling, Extra Channel, Improved Channel, Weapon Focus, Dodge

I didn't take the Command Undead feat because the Animate Dead spell will already let me control a small army. I want to be able to fight in melee, cuz it's fun, so I put a few feats towards that.

The GM is following the loot list in the core book and it says I get 16000gp at lvl 6.

Robe of Bones

Full Plate +1, Heavy Shield +1, Ring of Protection +1 (x2), Amulet of Natural Armor +1

10 + 3 + 2 + 1 + 1(dodge) = AC 27

Longsword +1 w/ Frost

4(bab) + 1(enchant) + 2(str) + 1(weapon focus) = +8 to hit, 1d8+3+1d6

Channel Energy: 8x/day 3d6 DC 18

Domains are Death/Healing. Makes sense for a neutral cleric right? The Death Domain means that my channels will heal me at lvl 8. The Healing domain ought to help a little bit for my lack of positive energy. I won't be the party's primary healer anyways.

Animate Dead allows me to create 10hd of undead a day, or 20hd if I first cast desecrate. I can control 40hd of dead per day. I didn't take the Command Undead feat because it seemed like a waste. That's a feat for 5 more HD of undead when I've already got 40. Unless I'm reading that wrong.

Desecrate gives all my zombies a +1/+1 and so does Prayer. The more zombies I've got the more the buffs do.

I can't wait to play this guy. I get to make zombies out of all the cool critters we kill. The limiting factor is bodies and only being able to cast Animate Dead once a day. I plan on having my zombies grab the bodies by their ankles and drag them around with us so I'll have them handy when I get up the next morning.

oh and btw, his name is Badash and he looks like Bruce Campbell from Army of Darkness :]


this stuff is great. I've taken some of the stories and e-mailed them to my players. I think it's making them nervous. I've got a small story of my own to add. I've been GMing, and playing tabletops in general, for almost a whole month now and I'm turning evil already. This thread has helped :)

The ranger got bit by a dire rat that has the lycanthropy disease. After turning into a were rat and going crazy a few times, the party goes to a cleric to get him healed. The cleric wants 10,000gp to do it and he won't budge on the price. Cure Disease is a lvl 3 spell. He should've done it for next to nothing.

Since they didn't have the money, the cleric strongarms them into killing the head of the Thieve's Guild for him. If they don't kill the guy then the ranger will turn into a mindless wererat permanently. The head of the Thieve's Guild was missing a thumb on one hand and the cleric demands the guy's hand as proof that he's dead.

Turns out the head of the Guild is also a wererat and has a ring that lets him control lycanthropes. He makes the ranger turn into a rat and start attacking the rest of the party.

The party finally kills the bad guy and the ranger returns to normal. I didn't think they needed to roll to cut off a hand, after all the guy's dead, but before I could say anything the barbarian's player slings a d20 across the table...and rolls a natural 1. I tell him that he missed the guy's wrist and lopped his own thumb off. Poetic justice right?

He tried to get it healed but nothing he tried would reattach his thumb. Even high level clerics that could raise people from the dead were unable to reattach this thumb. Hmm...wonder why? The barbarian ended up drilling a hole through his severed thumb and wearing it as a necklace.


Man is this thread well-timed! My party's doing the same thing. We've got 6 characters made now and only 1 of them is from the original party. We're all new to tabletops, not just PF, so people are wanting to try out new things. I can understand that but it makes it hard on me, the optimistic lad fresh out of GM school, to adjust the encounters to keep them alive. One day they destroy everything, the next day they're dragging each other out of the fight.

I'm fine with it for now but eventually I may let the Law of the Jungle take over. I'll stop trying to adjust the encounters for the party. If they die, they die. It's not my fault. After their hands cramp up from rolling up a few new characters maybe they'll sit down and discuss who does what and how it'll keep them alive.

If nothing else maybe we'll get to see them die in interesting ways. Fun!


If you take the Death Domain then at 8th lvl negative energy will heal you in the way that it does undead.


I started a game with 3 other players. They had never played before and I hadn't played since 2e.

All of us had at least minor mistakes on our characters that we didn't notice until a few games later.

We also removed a lot of rules so we could go ahead and play. Over the first few weeks we all did some reading on our own time and introduced more rules as we went. After 2 sessions we were up to speed but we spent a good bit of time discussing rules in the game. After 1 or 2 more sessions I doubt we'll even think about rules anymore and start to focus on playing.

Some simple examples would have made it much better for us but it wasn't awful. It's a complicated game and that's why I got it. I like complicated character creation.

I sat down with the PHB from 4e before deciding on PF. It is VERY well layed out for someone who had never played before. They have a character sheet at the beginning of the book and they go step-by-step showing you how to fill it out. If WotC made 4e to get new players into the game then they did an incredible job. Long-term, I'd rather play PF though.


I think my problem is that I'm coming from 2nd edition. In 2e a Saving Throw was a number specific to your character and you had to roll over that. If I'm understanding this right, in 3.5e and PF, the saving throw is a bonus added to your roll. You're trying to roll higher than the Difficulty Check (DC) that is associated with the spell/poison/whatever.

I think this is a much better system and makes much more sense but I came to it expecting something I had seen before. If I had never played d&d before and read the rules without a skewed prior knowledge I think it would've made perfect sense the first time through.

-Brad


Steven T. Helt wrote:

Base save is a basic class feature. The chart for each class you take has a base save.

If you are Fighter 3/Ranger 3, your base saves are F +6 R +4 W +2.

Good enough?

ah, okay. Ya know, that one line example explained it very well. Why couldn't they put that in the book?

thanks!
brad


I haven't played d&d since 2nd edition and just picked up Pathfinder this week to play with some buddies.

I love what PF did with Saving Throws. It makes so much more sense BUT I have one question.

On the section of the character sheet where you add up your scores for for the Saving Throws it asks for a 'base save.' What is that? Where do I find it?

I did a search here on the boards and found some old posts that said the DC is found in the Bestiary for a particular monster. That's not the same thing right? Tell me if I understand this correctly. The DC is the power of the attack and my Saving Throw scores are the power of my defense. That right?

thanks ahead of time,
brad