archer_polly's page

The main difference between a paladin and a warpriest is the paladin has better defenses and combat ability. The warpriest has better spell casting and gets more feats. I would probably not dump both INT and WIS on a paladin. Doing so is going to make you fairly useless out of combat. Keep the INT at 10 for a few extra skill points. 16 CHA is enough to start with, pick up a headband when you can afford it.

Don’t bother with cleave, as a full BAB class you get extra attacks as you level up.

Fey Foundling is a great feat for a paladin. It is so good that the joke is that all paladins are found abounded in the woods. Getting an extra 2 HP per die of lay on hands is incredible. The only drawback is the feat can only be taken at 1st level.

What is the background of the character? For example, what deity does he worship?

Worships Iomedae and is allowed to be LN per the GM. Thinking I might dump spellcasting all together as the party now has a Bard, medium, and druid and go with the Hospitaler, Warrior of the Holy Light, & Shining Knight archetypes.

Currently in a progression campaign and want to be a war priest but hybrid classes are not allowed. For my actions and party needs I was given paladin. Still researching but looking at ways to make a lower tier war priest without losing too much. Any ideas welcome.

Race

Angelkin Aasimar
STR -> 18
DEX -> 12
CON -> 14
INT -> 8
WIS -> 8
CHA -> 18

FEATS
1. Power attack
3. Cleave

Melkiador wrote:

archer_polly wrote:

Adding Summon Good and Sacred summons would open up a lot of opportunities. And from my understanding, a NG cleric can still cast LG or CG as it is 1 step from their deities alignment, yes? Sacred summons would only apply to NG monsters though.

Yes, but note for simplicity, we have been treating the cleric and deity as having the same alignment. Most of the limitations are actually based on your deities alignment and not your own.

Quote:

Also was going to add some channeling to help buff the party or monsters since they are always in range or buff myself if needed.

Yes, Herald Caller can make a decent healer. You will want selective channel for in combat use, but may choose to go further into the channel feats

Ok. So, a NG Cleric of a NG deity can summon LG, CG, & NG monsters from the summon monster list as at least 1 aspect matches the deities. Then, sacred summons allows standard action summoning of only NG monsters.

Feats so far are:

1. Improved initiative
3. Warrior priest
5. Selective Channeling
7. Summon Good monster
9. Sacred summons

Rave is currently halfling, possibly gnome as I'll likely choose Charm, Trickery or the Travel domain.

Halfling stats are

STR: 5 INT: 7
DEX: 14 WIS: 20
CON: 12 CHA: 16

This includes a +2 headband of inspiring wisdom

And will likely do some variant channeling to buff the party

archer_polly wrote:

Adding Summon Good and Sacred summons would open up a lot of opportunities. And from my understanding, a NG cleric can still cast LG or CG as it is 1 step from their deities alignment, yes? Sacred summons would only apply to NG monsters though.

Yes, but note for simplicity, we have been treating the cleric and deity as having the same alignment. Most of the limitations are actually based on your deities alignment and not your own.

Quote:

Also was going to add some channeling to help buff the party or monsters since they are always in range or buff myself if needed.

Yes, Herald Caller can make a decent healer. You will want selective channel for in combat use, but may choose to go further into the channel feats

Ok. So, a NG Cleric of a NG deity can summon LG, CG, & NG monsters from the summon monster list as at least 1 aspect matches the deities. Then, sacred summons allows standard action summoning of only NG monsters.

Feats so far are:

1. Improved initiative
3. Warrior priest
5. Selective Channeling
7. Summon Good monster
9. Sacred summons

Rave is currently halfling, possibly gnome as I'll likely choose Charm, Trickery or the Travel domain.

Halfling stats are

STR: 5 INT: 7
DEX: 14 WIS: 20
CON: 12 CHA: 16

This includes a +2 headband of inspiring wisdom

Yeah, I considered mentioning the issue with herald caller getting more benefit from having 1 neutral axis. But I was afraid that it would mess up the perception of what the poster was wanting to achieve. And it’s not like chaotic good isn’t still fun and playable. It’s just not the most optimal.

If you were neutral good, then summon good monster would be a helpful pick.

Adding Summon Good and Sacred summons would open up a lot of opportunities. And from my understanding, a NG cleric can still cast LG or CG as it is 1 step from their deities alignment, yes? Sacred summons would only apply to NG monsters though.

Also was going to add some channeling to help buff the party or monsters since they are always in range or buff myself if needed.

There are multiple sets of limitation in play.

Herald caller: must have one aspect of deity’s alignment

Cleric: can’t be opposite of any of your deity’s alignments.

Sacred summons: only applies to something that exactly matches the alignment by subtype. It’s not enough for the creature to just be of good and chaotic alignment. It has to have the good and chaotic subtypes to qualify.

As for feats, neither summon good monster or expanded summon monster nets you much. If your deity happens to be Desna you can get lyrakien for free which is the only extra CG option you’d get from those feats.

A feat you should consider is summon guardian spirit. That can get you a lyrakien that will scale with your level and last for minutes per level at level 5. And your sacred summons allows you to summon it as a standard action.

I should mention that a herald caller doesn’t summon in the low levels much. Your free feats take a while to kick in and the summons are only lasting for a few rounds anyway.

Should have mentioned that the cleric will be a level 9 so the feats granted by Herald Caller will apply but not sure which alignment is best or if Herald caller is worth the loss of med. armor, shields and a domain

archer_polly wrote:

Belafon wrote:

Quote:

A herald caller can use summon monster spells only to summon creatures particularly appropriate to her deity. This includes all creatures listed as summon monster options for priests of her deity (see Expanded Summoning for Priests on page 30), creatures whose alignment matches at least one aspect of her deity’s alignment, and creatures of an elemental subtype that matches a domain granted by the deity (if any).

This is an additional limitation on the Herald Caller, not an expansion of allowed summons.

creatures whose alignment matches at least one aspect of her deity’s alignment

This is the only part that is truly tripping me up with the Herald Caller and then adding sacred summons. To me reading this part of the Herald Caller Archetype means a CG cleric can summon a creature so long it is either Chaotic or Good.

I can see the trip-up. But nothing in the Herald Caller ability takes away the normal limitation that our cleric of Desna (CG) can't cast lawful spells. The key word in the ability is "only" (bolded above) Our cleric of Desna could ordinarily use summon monster II to summon a small fire elemental. It's not a lawful or evil spell, so she's good. But if she is a Herald Caller then she can't, since Desna doesn't grant the fire domain.

CG may not be the easiest alignment to visualize the limitation. Let's take a cleric of Irori (LN), lawful aura. Assuming the cleric is also LN, she could ordinarily summon Archons (LG), Angels (NG), Devils (LE), . . . anything that doesn't have the [chaotic] subtype. But if she's a herald caller she can no longer summon angels because they don't have the [lawful] subtype.

Quote:

But Sacred Summons from what it seems can only apply to CG creatures no matter what the Herald Caller grants.

Is this correct?

That is correct.

Ok. I think I'm getting it. The neutral aspect was always confusing but it doesn't have an aura and would default to good in the Angel example. The elemental part makes sense. I guess the question is which alignment affords the most decent summons as a heaelad caller or if Herald caller is worth it.

Being chaotic good, the herald caller can mostly only summon creatures that are chaotic good, chaotic neutral or neutral good. Of course sacred summons will only apply to chaotic good creatures.

On the bright side, azatas are some of the more useful monsters to summon, as they bring a lot of healing

Would adding Summon Good Monster then be a smart choice since it adds a lot of monsters and I would assume anything that is CN or NG could be summoned? Since my understanding is that neutral can be cast by any cleric. I need to be able to channel positive energy since the parties only healer is a Bard.

Sacred Summons applies when you summon a creature whose alignment subtypes exactly match your aura.

If, for example, you are a cleric of Desna (a chaotic good deity) then you have a chaotic good aura. You only get the benefits of Sacred Summons when you summon a creature that has both the [chaotic] and [good] subtypes.

Azata? Yes, you can summon as a standard. It is both chaotic and good.
Angel? Nope. It has to have the chaotic subtype in addition to the good subtype.

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I put a break in here, because there is an important aspect of the Herald Caller that needs to be addressed but that isn't directly related.

When you summon a creature with an alignment type, the summon monster spell has that type. If our cleric of Desna (CG) wanted to summon an archon. . . she can't. Because the archon is lawful, the spell is lawful. And clerics can't cast spells of alignment opposed to that of their deity.

Quote:

A herald caller can use summon monster spells only to summon creatures particularly appropriate to her deity. This includes all creatures listed as summon monster options for priests of her deity (see Expanded Summoning for Priests on page 30), creatures whose alignment matches at least one aspect of her deity’s alignment, and creatures of an elemental subtype that matches a domain granted by the deity (if any).

This is an additional limitation on the Herald Caller, not an expansion of allowed summons.

creatures whose alignment matches at least one aspect of her deity’s alignment

This is the only part that is truly tripping me up with the Herald Caller and then adding sacred summons. To me reading this part of the Herald Caller Archetype means a CG cleric can summon a creature so long it is either Chaotic or Good.

But Sacred Summons from what it seems can only apply to CG creatures no matter what the Herald Caller grants.

Is this correct?

Have scoured over the discussion boards regarding sacred summons and it all seems a bit confusing.

Using the Herald Caller Archetype

A herald caller can use summon monster spells only to summon creatures particularly appropriate to her deity. This includes all creatures listed as summon monster options for priests of her deity (see Expanded Summoning for Clerics), creatures whose alignment matches at least one aspect of her deity’s alignment, and creatures of an elemental subtype that matches a domain granted by the deity (if any).

Given this ability to summon any monster that matches at least 1 aspect of alignment, does sacred summons then apply to the 1 aspect alignment?

Example:

Archons [LG]
Demons [CE]

Any advice or guidance on this rule is helpful

Only core classes, but are archetypes and other expanded options allowed?

Archetypes and other expansions are allowed.

What Stranger said.

That said, there are lots of mechanics and options in the Pathfinder system to create whatever character you envision, just happens that ‘multiclass full caster’ is a really bad one.

Consider “variant multiclass” for example; you could be a fully-leveled Druid while obtaining some Cleric abilities and flavor, for example. Or vice-versa. Plenty of archetypes on both sides as well.

Yeah. Looks like I'll be doing some more research to figure out how to customize how I want. Thank you.

The standard advice for multiclassing two full casters is not to do it. Your spell casting and other class features do not stack so you end up with an extremely weak character. You get tons of low-level spells, but your caster level is split so they are weaker than those cast by a dedicated caster. Let’s say you are casting a spell that does 1d6 damage per level, at 2nd level that is 2d6. If you multiclass instead of increasing your first class, the damage is only 1d6. Also, the DC of the saves is based on the level of the spell so low-level spells are usually not that big of a threat to higher level creatures.

That makes sense. Ni point in weakening the character for no real benefit. Thank you for the advice.

GM assigned the party only core classes and races due to being a newer GM and having a couple brand new players. Been given the green light to tweak my character but welcome suggestions and advice.

Race: Half-Elf
Starting Class: Druid
1st LvL Feat: Shade of the Duskwood
Domain: Vulture

Potential Multiclass to

Class: Cleric
1st LvL Feat: War Blessing
Domains: Darkness & Trickery

Attempting to be a necro druid/cleric trickster whose back story is fuzzy because all he can remember is being in the swamps near a monastery and dealing with the pain of his companions dying and the priests unable to help.

Any advice on build is appreciated