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Thanks Doctor Kash and Ssalarn for your replies and I agree with your comments on the feats and abilities which are clearly written.

I come from a broad gaming background, as do my players, and tend to think rules more in terms of collectable card games or board games, where they often define tags/traits/types by keywords, in this case Pistol is the keyword in the same way Fire is a keyword in a lot of spells and effects.

I can see from your "in real life" and "letter-of-the-law" comments that you both get my point of view and I appreciate the debate, Thank you.

There will be no chapter and verse. You cannot prove a negative.

Huh? What the heck does that mean, what's the point of a rules forum if you are not going discuss the rules and just impose your world view onto people, because you’re always right, right?

With some of my players, this is not an issue at all and what I decide goes with no problems. I am not willing to discuss my other player’s difficulties, suffice to say, that I am not able or willing to make that kind of unilateral decision with them.

It's their job to prove their view is correct, not your job to prove that they are incorrect.

Their view is correct, Pistol is a generic term for a multitude of firearms, no one says "oh pass me that single barrelled pistol", and I understand that the intent may have been different, but it was poorly written.

My player mentioned he may like to play a gunslinger in a society game hence the questions now, before he sits down with someone that does not know him.

Smell of blood. Loud noises. Possibly bright flashes of light.

Exactly what myself and my gm discussed with the horse scent idea for the 30ft "in battle" zone.

We also included fire effects, creature smell and the lack of sound or sight as possible triggers as well.

He used it the other day as we unknowingly approached an animal den, the horses started to get skittish, so he declared "in battle" which made the encounter a lot more tense.

In battle, that same 12 seconds is 2 rounds and is a big deal. When there's enemies about or off in the distance and you need that instant response from your mount, I'd say you need a Ride check, even if your mount doesn't know what the heck is going on.

Those 2 rounds could be life or death, in or out of battle, but that is not the topic under discussion.

Currently you would only need a ride check if "in battle" or under the specific circumstances of the Ride skill, as you say "your mount doesn't know what the heck is going on". The horse only starts acting up "in battle" as it's spooked or frightened.

Thanks for your response.

Since it comes up so rarely, I just decide if the horse decides there's a danger. It's rarely ambiguous. In the example above, let's say you rolled initiative for some reason, say to track rnd/level buffs, and want to ride close to enemy that doesn't even know you're there. No one's shooting at each other or anything, horse doesn't care. As soon as arrows, spells, loud noises, etc. start happening you have to start making those DC 20 checks or dismount. I also usually let players dismount before making a check, otherwise you're stuck on a fleeing horse. Some DMs might think that's more fun/realistic.

I totally agree about going into rounds to keep things flowing and keep track, so I guess the question should be, When does a horse think it's in danger?

Although trained for riding not combat, it would be used to some loud noises, busy bustling places, fire and smoke at a farriers for example.

After much discussion with my GM, we decided that "in battle" would mean within 30ft as the horses scent abilities would work without having to worry about upwind and downwind modifiers, and for the sake of simplcity he decides if any shooting/throwing/spell casting would put the horse "in battle" which currently means bows and crossbows are fine, firearms are not, spells could go either way.

Thanks for the input, much appreciated.

At what point do you make the players start making ride checks to control their mounts if the mounts are not combat trained?

When would you declare them in battle?

Can a bow wielding character trot up to within 30ft of a melee stop the mount and plink arrows into combat from the stationary mounts back without having to make a check?

How about a gunslinger letting off a shot from the back of a stationary mount from 20ft away?

A pistol is a specific type of firearm, and a double barreled pistol is a different, distinct, type of firearm. The only weapons you can start with are a blunderbuss, musket, or pistol, so you cannot choose a double-barreled pistol as your starting weapon.

The confusion comes from the PRD table of Early Firearms which you kindly referenced, they are defined as pistol first with a type afterward i.e. pistol, dragon, they are all pistols.

Apologies to question your wisdom but two of my players only see things in black or white and there is still too much grey to be definitive for them both.

Apologies if this has been answered before, but can a gunslinger choose a double barrelled pistol as their starting weapon?

Chapter and verse appreciated as player requires it.

Thank you!