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TOZ wrote:
The cover, and the version number.

YES! lol.


Abraham spalding wrote:


In fact if you count in bracers of armor a monk can actually meet the AC of fighters, however it does require paying very close attention to what you are doing.

I'll grant you this, I did forget about those bracers. To much time spent playing a wizard, using sheild and mage armor instead.

Monks are rad!

they need those style feats on the bonus feat list


TOZ wrote:
Wize Jester wrote:

at the very least you can agree that the bonus feat list is restrictive and excludes feats that should be there.

Like Cockatrice Strike.

yes


at the very least you can agree that the bonus feat list is restrictive and excludes feats that should be there.


First post


Abraham read the first post.


There now I've fixed the monk. The items are affordable. The AC bonus is fixed. The attacks are much better with WIS being added in during flurry. Much less MAD and closer to SAD (funny Acronyms, lol). The Monk is now one feat (weapon finesse) away from adding both DEX and WIS to both attack and AC. Lastly the Bonus Feats are both more flexible and make more sense.
The Monk still has some vulnerabilities, while still being more inline with the abilities of his peers. When he moves and attacks it still uses his lower BAB and doesn't get WIS as a bonus to attack. He still pays a little more than he should. I left these things in on purpose. The Monk was pretty cool to begin with, I just tuned up the engine.
There its done. I've taken a screen shot of it, so it happened, and its over. Now you guys can argue about how the class that was so under powered, is now sooooo over powered with a few small tweaks that bring it up to par. All the while my new and improved Monk will be looking forward to destroying your Fighters.

~Wize


Monk
Class Features Fixes---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---
I can't get over the Monk's limited range of bonus feats and inability to keep up with the AC and Attack bonuses of his peers. Especially the feats. There are feats that are basically Monk only (spider step, elemental fist, dimensional agility, and ALL the style feats) that the Monk doesn't get as a Monk bonus feats!?!!? If you want these feats and you don't want to be a Monk that's your business, but they were made for Monks.

AC Bonus (Ex): Make the following changes;
When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds his Wisdom bonus (if any) to his AC and his CMD. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC and CMD at 2nd level. This bonus increases by 1 for every three monk levels thereafter, up to a maximum of +7 at 20th level. These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the monk is f lat-footed. He loses these bonuses when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any armor, when he carries a shield, or when he carries a medium or heavy load

Flurry of Blows (Ex): End of first paragraph should read as follows;
For the purpose of these attacks, the monk’s base attack bonus is equal to his monk level, the monk adds his Wisdom bonus and Strength bonus (if any) to his attack bonus. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the monk uses his normal base attack bonus and only his Strength bonus to attack bonus.

Bonus Feats: The following paragraph should be put at the end of this section;
In addition to the bonus feats listed above a monk may take as a bonus feat, any feat that requires a monks special abilities or requires improved unarmed strike, provided that he meets all requirements.

Feats Fixes---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------
These are just things that bug me. Why can't the Ninja walk up walls? Why are these two classes getting two almost identical abilities at the same level. Screw it, simplifying it everyone gets the best of both worlds.

Spider Step
Your physical mastery grants you an impossible stride.
Prerequisites: Acrobatics 6 ranks, Climb 6 ranks, monk level 6th.
Benefit: You have learned to move while barely touching the surface underneath you. As part of your move action you can walk across ropes, branches, walls, ceilings or even water and other surfaces that cannot support your weight. You can divide up this special movement into increments as little as 5ft. You can only move in this way up to a total of half your slow fall distance (maximum 50 feet).
This movement ignores difficult terrain. While moving in this way, any surface will support you, no matter how much you weigh. This allows you to move across water, lava, or even the thinnest tree branches. When moving in this way, you do not take damage from surfaces or hazards that react to being touched, such as lava or caltrops, nor do you need to make Acrobatics checks to avoid falling on slippery or rough surfaces. Finally, when using Spider step, you ignore any mechanical traps that use a location-based trigger. You must reach a solid, level surface that can support your weight by the end of your turn or you will fall.
Special: A Ninja gains this as a bonus feat at 6th level, whether or not she meets the prerequisite. She can move up to half her speed in this manner as part of a move action or up to double her movement as a full round action.

The only way this feat is any good is if it applies to all your attacks. If this is a one shot, once per round, then it is a bad joke at the expense of the Monk. When you've got rogues doing +6d6 sneak attack until the cows come home by the time they reach +8 BAB, what is this supposed to be.

Elemental Fist (Combat)
You empower your strike with elemental energy
Prerequisites: Con 13, Wis 13, Improved Unarmed Strike, base attack bonus +8.
Benefit: When you use Elemental Strike pick one of the following energy types: acid, cold, electricity, or fire. Activating this ability is a swift action. Until the beginning of your next turn all of your successful hits, deals damage normally plus 1d6 points of damage of the chosen type. You must declare that you are using this feat before you make your attack roll. You may attempt an elemental fist attack once per day for every four levels you have attained (see Special).
Special: A monk of the four winds receives Elemental Fist as a bonus feat at 1st level, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. A monk may attempt an Elemental Fist attack a number of times per day equal to his monk level, plus one more time per day for every four levels he has in classes other than monk.

Item Fixes---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------
I don't know why Monks have to pay so much for magic items. The Amulet of Mighty fists cost 2.5 times as much as a comparable magic weapon! Yes it counts for two weapons in a flurry, so maybe you could justify it as two weapons in one. Which might qualify it for the "multiple abilities" 1.5 times cost multiplier. So it could be as much as a 2 * 1.5 = 3 cost multiplier. But the item only allows for a maximum of +5 enchantment, so I guess that is why it was bumped down to only a 2.5 cost multiplier. In the end a monk pays almost as much for a +5 weapon (125,000gp), while everyone else gets to pay for a +8 weapon (128,000gp).
On the other hand flurry states that the monk may make, "additional attack using any combination of unarmed strikes or attacks with a special monk weapon" This implies that the monk could do all his attack with the same weapon. One weapon. In any case its been nerfed to only allow up to a+5 enchantment. On the plus side it doesn't need to have a minimum +1 enchantment to allow for special weapon qualities.
All and all, I ,for my purposes am settling on a 1.5 multiplier and keeping the other restrictions on the item. I think its fair for all sides. The monk gets access to weapons on almost an even level, but the monk still has to pay more. Make the following changes to cost.

Amulet of Mighty Fists
Aura faint evocation; CL 5th
Slot neck; Price 3,000 gp (+1), 12,000 gp (+2), 27,000 gp (+3), 50,000 gp (+4), 75,000 gp (+5); Weight —
Description
This amulet grants an enhancement bonus of +1 to +5 on attack and damage rolls with unarmed attacks and natural weapons. Alternatively, this amulet can grant melee weapon special abilities, so long as they can be applied to unarmed attacks. See Table 15–9 for a list of abilities. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses. An amulet of mighty fists cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +5. An amulet of mighty fists does not need to have a +1 enhancement bonus to grant a melee weapon special ability.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, greater magic fang, creator’s caster level must be at least three times the amulet’s bonus, plus any requirements of the melee weapon special abilities; Cost 1,500 gp (+1), 6,000 gp (+2), 13,500 gp (+3), 25,000 gp (+4), 37,500 gp (+5)

Again the Monk is getting reamed here. +3 Armor costs 9,000 while the Monk's Robe costs 13,000. The monk gets +1 or +2 to AC and Attack dice, but that depends on his level. +1 Bonus for +3 bonus cost seems a little out of whack. So we add enchantment bonus to it without additional penalties but with the same restrictions of the Amulet of Mighty fists. Make the following changes to the description and cost.

Robe, Monk's
Aura moderate transmutation; CL 10th
Slot body; Price 13,000 gp, 14,000 gp (+1), 17,000 gp (+2), 22,000 gp (+3), 29,000 gp (+4), 38,000 gp (+5); Weight 1 lb.
Description
This simple brown robe, when worn, confers great ability in unarmed combat. If the wearer has levels in monk, her AC and unarmed damage is treated as a monk of five levels higher. If donned by a character with the Stunning Fist feat, the robe lets her make one additional stunning attack per day. If the character is not a monk, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-level monk (although she does not add her Wisdom bonus to her AC). This AC bonus functions just like the monk's AC bonus.
There are versions of these robes that grant enhancement bonus of +1 to +5 to AC. This bonus does interfere with any abilities that require the wearer to be unarmored. Alternatively, these robes can grant special abilities, so long as they can be applied to armor. See Table 15–4 for a list of abilities. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item. Monk's robes cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +5. Monk's robes do not need to have a +1 enhancement bonus to grant a armor special ability.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, righteous might or transformation; Cost 6,500 gp, 7,000 gp (+1), 8,500 gp (+2), 11,000 gp (+3), 14,500 gp (+4), 19,000 gp (+5)

~Wize


I have been playing pathfinder for a while now but only recently tried my hand at building a monk. Had fun planning out what feats I wanted to take at what level. Started looking into what the forums had to say and noticed a lot of complaining and hating on the monks. But I enjoy the monk concept too much to let it go and kept tinkering with my monk. Finally I had enough of all the hating on the monk and ran the numbers at various level. To my shock I found that they were right. AC is lower compared to a full plate wearing fighter, attack goes lower too. And the whole MAD thing (Multi Ability Dependent).

Monks vs Fighter. Long run Fighter gets higher AC because magic shields and armor. Higher attack because of Weapon Training and magic items. Amulet of Mighty Fists costs x2.5 as much as a similarly enchanted weapon, that is just brutal. Monks robes, up the damage by one level and increase AC +1 but don't even give an enhancement. You could probably add an enchantment bonus to it but it would probably incur a x1.5 increase in cost for multiple abilities.

Monk vs Ranger or Paladin. Instead of Weapon training, the Ranger gets favored enemy and the Paladin gets holy weapons. Both get spells. Both still also get the benefits of affordable weapons and armor.
Monk vs Rogue. Ok I like Rogues as much as the next guy but this is just a travesty. First Rogues get a bump in HD. Next they get rogue tricks. Bleeding Attack, Slow Reflexes, Fast Stealth. On top of being able to drop huge damage with sneak attacks. What did the monks get... Oh and Rogues get the advantage of affordable weapons and armor.

The Monk is supposed to be the eastern version of the fighter, but it looks like they have been demoted to at around or below the Rogue in ability. Now that the Ninja is here to fill the role of eastern Rogue, where is the Monk to go? Enough is enough, I am gonna fix this.

~Wize