Wizardxeze's page

Couldn't let this thread stay dead? It's been almost 3 years. In fact, it would have been 3 years since the last reply if you just waited a day.

Also, the Remaster comes out in 2 weeks. There's no reason to go over these rules now, as they will possibly change with the remaster.

I do not understand why you felt the need to attack a new player seeking answers to unfinished topic on forums, when the common rules is not to start new post every time when asking a question if the same question is already asked and you can still respond to it? If I were to ask this as new post someone if not all would direct me here and being new to pathfinder 2e I just wanted to learn the rules properly. Not to mention this topic seemed unfinish in my opinion.

Original Question was asking clarification to Observant Explorer feat, which allows you to Search Creatures as free Exploration Activity. This implies that you can Search Creatures as Exploration Activity. The answer has to be either that Observant Explorer does not allow you to Search Creatures as free Exploration Activity or that you can Search Creatures as Exploration Activity? Same logic as Trap Finder feat.

This also leave the a lot of questions.

Do you need to choose between searching Objects or Creatures as you can do only one thing at a time but searching for Object, Traps, Hazards, Haunds and Secret doorsis already trying to find five different things? What if a player wanted to Search enemies and traps up ahead on the road? Would he have to choose to Search either Creatures or Objects?

Can you be unnoticed in Combat?
GMG p.11 ruling which seems to be broken rule and not work so yes?

Avoid Notice states that you ignore other creature's initiative roll when determining if you are unnoticed, which might be in conflict with both GMG p.11 rule. Avoid Notice also might be in conflict against Searching Creatures for same reason?

But people seem to usually roll Avoid Notice before hand, as if you succeed you might fully avoid having to roll initiative? There fore would you not also roll Search Creature before hand? Thus the contest is made before Initiative is rolled? That would prevent any rules conflicts?

So is the answer Yes you can search creatures and DM does secret Perception check vs creatures Stealth DC and if you enter a combat you would use the same roll for initiative and if you failed it against creature using Avoid Notice they would be undetected and unnoticed by you? But if you Crit Succeed they would be observed by you?

Also would it not be important for DM to state for that player "50ft up ahead the road you see Creatures hiding behind trees on both sides of the road, what do you do?" so the combat could start farther away?

"it would be optimal to always search" Would it? If everyone was using Avoid Notice successfully on to next fight being unnoticed by enemies the players could take Delay Action to take turns right after each other before any enemy could move? While that is powerful you lose the ability to Search Creatures and Traps which would make Trap Finder more appealing.

Also there often are cases you know enemies are hiding and would have someone checking behind boxes, corners and looking back in case Goblins were to try to hide in order to lead you to ambush where they attack on both sides. You would use your effort to seek creatures looking in places where they might hide. So it makes sense to be able to do so.

But sure, let's leave the topic unfinished. As what I followed about Remaster no one has talked or even hinted anything about revisited on Unnoticed in Combat and Seeking Creatures in Exploration Mode, nor is there mention about GMG p.11 rule does not work in its current state. I look forwards if they did anything to those rules but I doubt.

My understanding was that Exploration Mode is basically long period of Encounter Mode where you do one thing over and over again? That would mean what you can do in Encounter Mode you should be able to do in Exploration Mode? Seek: "You scan an area for signs of creatures or objects." The Seeker has to choose to either search for objects or creatures. Search activity in Exploration Mode is just using Seek action to Seek Objects. Searching Creatures as Exploration Activity would be its own activity. The benefit would be to start the next encounter against hidden creatures sooner and any enemies you succeeded the perception roll are hidden instead of undetected.

It is implied that anything you do in encounter mode can be done as Exploration Activity while there seems to be no rule against using Seek Creatures as Exploration Activity and on top of that Observant Explorer feat implies you can do so "You can attempt a check to notice hidden creatures attempting to Avoid Notice nearby even if you aren't actively Searching for them." same way Trap Finder implies you can search for traps as Exploration Activity. Not only that but by telling the player they can't search for hidden creatures as Exploration Activity leads to the only solution where whole campaign is run in encounter mode. The player will roll 300 times each hour to seeking enemies 99% of time when there is nothing to seek. Same for the other player rolling 300 times to seek Hazards, Haunts, Treasure and Hidden Paths 99% of time when there is nothing to seek. The third player is going to only say 200 times that he is raising the shield. Fourth person is Sneaking from cover to cover. Why would anyone want to prevent Search Creatures as Exploration Activity? It is just one more thing for players to consider when deciding Exploration Activities?

The "problem" that was said is that A and B are happening at the same time which means the outcome can't be different regardless who goes "first/last?" But there is no contradiction? Person searching for creatures rolls perception check against anyone's stealth DC trying to hide. The moment he succeeds is the the moment we chance to encounter mode where the person trying to hide rolls Stealth as initiative. If the creature succeeds the stealth check he is considered hidden if he was observed, Hidden if he was hidden, Undetected if he was undetected and Unnoticed if we was unnoticed. Searching for Creatures always triggers Encounter Mode at the same time or before Avoid Notice would. Avoid Notice allows you to start the combat hidden while Searching Creatures allows you to start combat earlier while knowing that there are hidden creatures and where they are while everyone else is not aware of them. You can speak as a free action even on other's turns "There!" to make unnoticed enemies undetected but it is usually limited less than few sentences.

So what was the problem? A and B can happen at the same time and there is no contradiction. Unless you house rule that Stealth Roll as Initiative is actually Sneak? But that would be silly house rule. Also Rules don't take in to account that Goblin taking Very Sneaky can sneak 45ft from one cover to another using 3 actions while Human would have to sneak 15ft from cover to cover and if there is no cover within 15ft you are stuck while goblin's range is 45ft with Very Sneaky feat. That means Very Sneaky Goblin could argue that "well, if there is anything to hide behind I can sneak there?" and could try to argue being Undetected. But that is no longer anything to do with Searching Creatures and is all topic of "if party is in open and there aren't many covers is he in cover?" I would argue he already was in the cover and took Hide action when he rolled Stealth Initiative.

Thus Searching Creatures is valid Exploration Activity which seems to work just fine with caveat you have to choose between searching Objects or Creatures and can't do both! The benefit is to swap in to Encounter Mode earlier and maybe avoiding Ambush or noticing the hiding little girl which starts new quest chain "where's mommy?" You also start the combat knowing where enemies are hiding. If no enemy is ever hiding you west your exploration activity, same with searching for traps.