What is your heart's desire?'s page

I don't see why line of sight wouldn't be a factor. If you can't see who you're cursing, how can you choose them as a target?

Well, from the RAW side, there seems to be some conflicting opinions on whether Su abilities require LoS/LoE (see this thread for example), so a feat that supposedly is not magical at all would be even more ambiguous, I'd say.

Taking fluff into account, I don't see why you'd need to see your target to make them believe you're cursing them. There's nothing in the feat's description describing what the cursing action is like. Yell a few angry words at someone in the dark, or behind a door, or just periodically do it just in case there's a hidden creature in your room ("I know you're here. This is the biggest mistake you've ever made. You'll never get out."). Bonus points if you know who the character is: "Cursed be you, Bob, and your entire bloodline for a thousand generations and another one!". Or maybe someone is scrying the character who, having some method of detecting that, pulls out a creepy doll and sticks some nails in it.

It's supposed to be just a bluff, after all. Most restrictions should be on the target's side, as tchrman35 mentioned.

Maybe there's just some rules implication I'm forgetting, but I'm not seeing any indication of what range limitations the Feign Curse feat is supposed to have.

My initial assumption was that it could target foes within 30ft, as the Misfortune hex, but after reading it again there's no mention of that being the case. There's also nothing saying that it's dependent on either language or sound, so one could theoretically just wave hands menacingly and make an enemy thousands of feet away believe to be cursed. Actually, I'm not even sure if LoS/LoE is a limitation either, which would allow some pretty funny shenanigans.

So, is this in need of a FAQ, or am I missing something obvious?

Cast a spell to boost that target's base stat used for the save, first, like Owl's Wisdom for a Will save, to give them a bonus?

That might help a bit. It would require a longer setup for me, though, as the main things I was interested in accomplishing with the sickened condition were precisely lowering their will saves and wisdom-based skills. Well, at least I'll have days to work with.

Could use a scroll... if the creator had a junkie casting stat the save would be low.

Only to a certain degree. The caster would need at least a 12 to be able to cast it, wouldn't he? That would make it at least a DC13 save.

As far as I'm aware no such thing exists. Sorry. The only option I can think of is to deliberately choose to have a relatively weak casting attribute and building around this weakness (buffers and gishes sometimes do this, as their spells are mostly beneficial, in order to raise other attributes when using point-buy).

If this isn't for PFS you could just talk to your GM about it and see if you can't just develop a lower-level version creating the effect you want. In fact, I'd try this route before you'd think of building your character with it in mind. Which you weren't going to anyway.

Yeah, lowering my casting stat just for this wouldn't work very well, as the character is already focused on it otherwise.

I'd check it with my GM, but he's mentioned that he won't be accepting too much stuff that's not Paizo-official. He's testing some new rules in this game, so he wants as little "interference" as possible. I might ask him anyway, though.

I also feel almost dirty asking for a homebrew level <2 spell that makes a creature sickened for multiple days without a save, even if it's just near a certain object/place. It's nothing gamebreaking, but still.

Good luck (or bad... that's how saves are failed after all)!

Haha, thanks!

D&D used to have a provision (I think all the way back in 1st Edition) in which you could deliberately cast a spell to have a lesser effect (such as fewer damage dice, but this DIDN'T make the remaining damage non-lethal); this had no mention of Save DC (they didn't even call it Save DC back then), but that seems conceptually similar. No idea if this idea made it over into Pathfinder or even into D&D 3rd Edition; I haven't seen any such thing, but haven't been carefully looking for it.

Spells usually have a bunch of effects that improve with caster levels (duration, range, damage, etc), and you still can cast spells at a lower CL in Pathfinder (as long as you use a caster level that'd allow for such a spell to be cast). So, that's kinda still possible in some cases. Save DCs aren't based on CL, though. =/

So, I was checking some spells for an out-of-combat manipulator-of-sorts character and Aversion came up. The spell makes a target avoid an object/place for days (or become nauseated if forced to be near it). That's cool and all, but the effect that happens instead of that when the target saves is what interested me: he becomes sickened while near the source of aversion (again, duration of days).

I know this smells a little bit like cheese, but is there any way to voluntarily lower a spell's save DC as it's cast (kind of like caster level can be lowered when casting)? Since I don't really want to make the targets run away or start puking all over, it'd be ideal to have the spell's DC as low as possible, specially since I might want to use it on lowly commoners and the like.

For this character, I'd prefer something that doesn't cost much (in terms of feats/levels/money/whatever), as I'm not looking to build too much around this.

The first round of the spell does not say "detect the presence or absence of desires", but "you sense significant desires". This means you get multiple desires. For me:

1) I want a million dollars
2) I want a great spouse
3) I want peace on earth
4) ...
All come in round 1.
If I am mostly greedy, then round 3 identifies #1 as the greatest desire. If I am very philanthropic, #3 instead.

I'm not sure if I agree that Detect Desire changes what you get from Detect Thought's first round. It says that the second round works on Charisma instead of Intelligence (second paragraph), and that the third round tells the caster the most pressing current desire instead of the surface thoughts (third paragraph). But the spell description's first paragraph's "you sense significant desires" sounds more like a general description to me (it doesn't even mention that's what happens in the first round, just that it's what the spell does in general).

Here's my take:

You use a standard action. You choose a creature. You learn desires from 1st (significant desires) and 3rd (current desire) rounds of that creature only. The 2nd (Charisma scores) round is not a desire, so is not learned.
Now that you know these desires, you get the Diplomacy bonus per the spell.

The revelation does mimic the spell per the text of the revelation. However, the revelation has no support for extending the time, so you only get the standard action for 1 creature's desires. Generally things that mimic spell effects do no mimic duration or targets unless specified.

/cevah

So you're saying you interpret it as giving the character the effects of the spell as if he had concentrated on the target from the first through the third round, but only for the purpose of detecting desires? I mean, with it being only single target, detecting "presence or absence of desires" from the first round doesn't really do much if you already sense the "most pressing current desire" from the third round.

The Diplomacy bonus just seems like a consequence of knowing the target creature's desires (it's a circumstance bonus, there's a direct mention to the GM being able to give a higher bonus if he thinks he should, etc.), so I think the character would still get that regardless of how the rules went.

But if it mimicked the spell, wouldn't it use the original's duration, as per the rules on spell-like abilities?

A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell.

If it does mimic the spell then, since Desire Sight is a spell-like ability and there's no mention of what the duration should be, wouldn't it default to Detect Desire's duration of concentration, up to 1 round/CL? (Not that it matters much if it's only a single target, but there are some things that could be done with it)

Unless you mean it just mimics the spell's effect, which would be just the instantaneous detection on a standard action from either yours or Mark Seifter's rulings.

The word "any" can be potentially ambiguous, but in this case, the use of singular ("any creature" vs "any creatures" and more importantly "the target" vs "the targets") indicates single target (also, it would almost always use "all" or "each" instead of any if it meant all).

Alright, makes sense. Thanks for answering.

I'd say you pick one creature and gain the third round information (similarly to the paladin detect evil ability) instantaneously, no concentration necessary.

So, just to be clear, the revelation only grants the "Detect Desires spell's third round of concentration" effect, not the effect of "having cast Detect Desires and concentrated until the third round"?

I was also under the impression that "you can learn the desires of any creature you can see within 100 feet" meant that you got to use it on all creatures you wanted that were in range. But, judging by your reply, it's just one target, huh?

*bump*

So, the revelation says:

As a standard action, you can learn the desires of any creature you can see within 100 feet, as if you had concentrated until the third round of detect desires. As usual for detect desires, the target can attempt a Will save to negate the effect. You can use this ability once per day at 1st level, plus one additional time per day at 5th level and for every 5 levels beyond 5th.

Is the ability supposed to work as if you had cast detect desires and concentrated until the third round OR does it only give the benefits described at the spell's third round effect?

That is, do you also get the first and second round's benefits (supported by "as if you had concentrated until the third round"), or are those effects skipped (supported by the general description mentioning only that you "learn the desires of any creature")?

Also related to the question of whether the revelation is supposed to mimic the spell or the spell's effect, do you activate the revelation as a standard action and keep it running for the spell's duration (concentration, up to 1 min./level (D)), or is it supposed to be a instantaneous effect usable as a standard action?

EDIT: This is the Detect Desires spell's description:

This spell functions as detect thoughts, except you sense significant desires of creatures with an Intelligence score of 1 or higher, regardless of whether they are conscious or not.

Instead of Intelligence, the second round of concentration reveals each mind's Charisma score. If the highest Charisma score is 26 or higher (and at least 10 points higher than your own Charisma score), you are stunned for 1 round and the spell ends.

Instead of surface thoughts, the third round of concentration reveals the most pressing current desire of any mind in the area (Will negates).

Presenting a creature with an opportunity to fulfill a significant desire grants you a +2 circumstance bonus (or higher, at the GM's discretion) on Diplomacy checks to influence it.