Weston Brock's page

Agreed with Jeraa. You can get the DR from Armour Master + Adamantine or from Armour Master + Stalwart, but not all three.

You can never combine bonuses that don't stack with each other - instead take the biggest set of total bonuses that do stack.

Stalwart Defender works similarly. You can have Stalwart Defender DR + Adamantine DR, or Armour Master DR + Adamantine DR, whichever is greater, but not all three. If you have Stalwart, you can also choose Armour Master + Stalwart DR, but if you try to add a third type you'll end up with something that can't stack. (Note: I think the text in Stalwart Defender about not stacking with any other source overrides the text in Stalwart about stacking with class features, so that Stalwart Defender + Stalwart doesn't work, but I'm not sure.)

Increased Damage Reduction Defensive Power improves your DR from Stalwart Defender, so you get to include that power any time you are using your Stalwart Defender DR, but not if you are using your Armour Master DR.

Wow. An archetype for a core class does a better job than a prestige class based around defending. Never mind, man, I ain't goin' with Stalwart Defender.

Weston Brock wrote:

Lot o' rules to remember... So, any insight into the bulk of the original post? Can you answer those questions?

Not 100% sure. As Stalwart doesn't stack with the damage reduction from the adamantine armor, at the very least you wouldn't get both of them at once.

In either case you get the damage reduction from the Armor Master archetype. Then you would add in the damage reduction from adamantine heavy armor (DR 3/-) or the damage reduction granted by Stalwart (up to DR 5/-). So you would have DR 15/- normally, but boosted to DR 17/- if you use Stalwart (assuming you get the full bonus).

At least that is how I believe it works.

Makes sense. So Armor Master with Improved Stalwart's pretty sweet, huh? Up to DR 22/-, if you're correct.

Weston Brock wrote:

One last question: Damage Reduction types. When you see something like, say, DR 1/Silver, that means that only Silver weapons can bypass that Damage Reduction, yes? In that case, can nothing bypass DR X/-? I'm confused about that.

Correct. Also correct about DR/-.

Do note that there are some things, like a paladins smite attack, that automatically bypass damage reduction. And energy damage of any type, such as fire and cold, also automatically bypass damage reduction.

Lot o' rules to remember... So, any insight into the bulk of the original post? Can you answer those questions?

This is a rather confusing topic for me, so I'd like to sort things out now: the Armor Master Fighter Archetype gains Damage Reduction as a class feature. At level 19, it gets 12 DR/- if wearing heavy armor, which stacks with the adamantine bonus, but not with bonuses from other sources. The Stalwart Feat, however, stacks with Damage Reduction from class features, but not from any other source. I'm assuming that includes adamantine, so that brings me to a quandary; if you're a level 19 Armor Master with adamantine heavy armor and you activate the Stalwart Feat (we're assuming you can get the max DR 5/-), what is your DR? Is it 17, providing the bonus as a class feature along with Stalwart, though Stalwart cancels the adamantine bonus? Is it 15, providing the class feature bonus as well as the adamantine bonus, but it does not allow the Stalwart bonus (and in such a case, would that mean it is not, in fact, a class feature bonus, but rather a much larger armor bonus)? Or would it actually be 20, including all of the bonuses?

This brings me to another point: the Stalwart Defender. It also gets DR as a class feature, and it also stacks with adamantine "but not from any other source." Is this similar to Armor Class, in that, if you took 19 levels in Armor Master and 10 levels in Stalwart Defender, only the highest DR from a class feature would apply (in this case, Armor Master)? What about using Stalwart in this case? And if you took the Increased Damage Reduction Defensive Power?

One last question: Damage Reduction types. When you see something like, say, DR 1/Silver, that means that only Silver weapons can bypass that Damage Reduction, yes? In that case, can nothing bypass DR X/-? I'm confused about that.

Both are armor bonuses, no stack.

Crap. Well, thank you.

Y'know, this actually makes me want to ask...why not just play a Skald?

This is really old, but I figured I'd ask here, since it's relatively relevant to the topic, and I'm here anyways: does the Armor Bonus to AC that the Mage Armor spell provides stack on top of existing armor, or is it the same as putting a set of armor over another set of armor (i.e., the bonuses don't stack)? The description says bonus and not enhancement, so I'm assuming the latter...

No, you can only share the one you get at lv5 and that's it, the Tactician fighter can never share any other feats.

dragonhunterq was thinking of either Cavalier OR the Drill Sergeant Archetype as they get the Master Tactician ability which the Tactician fighter doesn't get. If you are one of these two classes at lv17 when you get this Master Tactician ability you can share TWO teamwork feats at a time instead of just one.

Your options are retraining it to what you want when you reach a higher level.
OR multiclass so that you qualify for the one you want when you would get it.

But either way you're only ever handing out 1 teamwork feat.

Well damn. I'm starting to regret choosing Tactician. I didn't qualify for the Teamwork Feat I really wanted, so that's a bit of a disappointment. But, you said I could retrain it? You mean by using the retrain feature, or can I replace that Feat using the "replace a Bonus Feat every 4th level" option that Fighters have?

Oh, hey, speaking of that option, can I only replace Combat Bonus Feats, or can I replace a Bonus Feat that I took at creation, too? I took Endurance so I could sleep in Medium Armor, but that's...not really been all that useful.

First , there are some bonus that do stack like dodge or just untyped bonus , you can check that later on , but in general , typed bonus to the same thing cant stack.

So lets say you have 2 spells:

One says: Climb +2 morale bonus

Another Climb +4 morale bonus

Both bonus are to the Climb and both are morale bonus so they dont stack.

BUT if you had:

One says: Climb +2 bonus

Another Climb +4 bonus

They would stack since they are untyped kind of bonus.

Ofc:

One says: Climb +2 bonus

Another Climb +4 morale bonus

Would also stack.

Ah, all right... Now, this reminds me of another question. A Tower Shield only allows a maximum Dexterity Bonus of +2 to AC. If you wore a set of armor that allowed a higher Dexterity Bonus than that, would you only be able to take the lower bonus? It makes sense to me, but you can never be too sure.

Yes, the tactician gains the bonus feat as that is part and parcel of the tactician class feature.

That bonus feat is the only one you can initially share. you eventually gain further bonus feats that you can share simultaneously.
check out:

master tactician wrote:

At 17th level ... He can select from any of his teamwork feats, not just his bonus feats.

Hrm. So up until I reach level 17, the bonus Feat I get at level 5 is the only one I can share, even if I learn more Teamwork Feats before then? That sucks, especially since I don't yet qualify for the Teamwork Feat that I want.

...Lemme make sure I'm wording this right. I'm asking if I may share ANY ONE TEAMWORK FEAT I have, and not necessarily the one that I get at level 5. If so, may I eventually share the use of ALL my Teamwork Feats at once?

First lets tackle stacking bonuses.

In Pathfinder, if you have two versions of the same type of bonus, such as a morale bonus from both a bards song and a cleric bless, only the higher one counts. So when it comes to wearing chain mail and plate at the same time, you can do it, but you only get the armor bonus from the plate. This is why there is no point in wearing Bracers of Armor when you are wearing any type of regular armor, because the armor bonus doesn't stack, even though one comes from physical armor and the other is magic.

Same with a Shield bonus, you can wield two shields if you want, but only the higher shield bonus counts towards your AC.

Now for Archetypes. When you take an Archetype it modifies the base class you have taken. Basically it adjusts the class. So when you level up that class, the level applies to all modifications made due to archetypes. IF you have two archetypes that can both be applied to a class, when you gain a level in that class the increase applies to both archetypes. It's not like multiclassing where each class is separate, archetypes are not separate classes, they are modifications to the same class. So as in your example, when you reach level 6, you would have learned both abilities.

But if two archetypes both replace the same features of the base class, you can not take them both, you can only trade out a class feature once. You do not get to just pick one. If you have two rogue archetypes that both replace trapfinding, you can't take both. However, if you have one archetype that replaces trapfinding and one that replaces sneak attack, then taking both is fine, because they are replacing different features.

When you say "same type of bonus," I'm assuming you mean like armor and shield? Like, armor and shield are two different types of AC bonuses, yes? So they both count towards AC? I know this should be obvious, but your wording just kinda made me uncertain. I'm still new to tabletop RPGs in general, and my group only plays once every week or two.

If you take levels in multiple Archetypes for the same Class, do you essentially just gain one level in your second Archetype, and thus have to keep taking levels until you reach the level at which you get Special Abilities for that Archetype, or do you learn each Archetype's Special Abilities at their respective level? Say that you learn a Special Ability at 5th level for one Archetype, and another Special Ability at 6th level for another Archetype. Is it dependent on your character level, and thus you could learn both Special Abilities by character level 6, or does it depend on your levels in those Archetypes, and thus you'd need to take 5 levels in the first Archetype, and 6 levels in the second?

By the way, from what I understand, you can't take multiple Archetypes whose Special Abilities replace the same Special Ability of the base Class. Is that the case, or do you just pick which Special Ability you take? In the case of the former, if you have to level the Archetypes individually, does that mean you flat-out can't take levels in your second Archetype?

Concerning shields, is it possible to have two shields equipped at once? Like, could you have a Tower Shield equipped on one arm, and, say, a Light or Heavy Shield on the other arm? If so, would the AC stack?

Speaking of AC stacking, in the description for some pieces of armor, it says they can be worn with chainmail. Is this just flavor text, or can certain kinds of armor be worn with others? Because Chainmail already has an AC of 6, and if that stacks with other armor, that seems a tad broken.

At level 5, the Tactician Fighter Archetype gains Tactician "as the Cavalier Class Feature." The first sentence of the Tactician Cavalier Class Feature says, "At 1st level, a cavalier receives a teamwork feat as a bonus feat." Does this also apply to the Tactician Fighter Archetype, and thus the Tactician gets a bonus Teamwork Feat in addition to the bonus Feat naturally gained at level 5? My GM ruled that, yes, he does, so that's what I'm going with anyways, but I'm still curious.

Also, continuing on from the Tactician Class Feature for the Cavalier, it says, "the cavalier can grant this feat to all allies," and, "Allies retain the use of this bonus feat..." This may be a stupid question, but the use of the word "this" makes me wonder if only that specific bonus Feat may be shared, or if any Teamwork Feat may be shared. Yet another sentence says, "Allies do not need to meet the prerequisites of these bonus feats," so I'm guessing it means it CAN be any Teamwork Feat, but still.

That also brings up another question: do you share the use of all Teamwork Feats that you know, or do you only choose one?

If you want to go full bore Black Dynamite, go Halfling or Tiefling Dynamite; It's much more setting appropriate for Cheliax.

Not too many Mwangi, but TONS of Halfling slaves and Tiefling second-class-citizens.

Oh, the blaxploitation character was more of a joke concept for any future campaigns we do. I'm gonna see if I can't get the GM to make different campaigns. I have a few character concepts. The aforementioned blaxploitation hero, an Alchemist with a sentient tumor who speaks with a New York accent and has a bit of a perverted streak (the tumor, not the Alchemist), a forlorn Elf who reluctantly rejects contact with creatures of a shorter lifespan due to outliving their friends, but secretly longs for the companionship of the ones they reject, and a Trox Barbarian who's as totally overpowered as I can make him (GM permitting, I'm kind of hoping for a campaign where everyone is a min-maxing munchkin just to see how insane everything can get).

Hm. I'd have to read more into Cheliax.

Well, not this character specifically, as I tend to try to make a new character entirely with every game I play. However, I tend to gravitate towards physically-oriented, board-and-sword characters, particularly if I can also make them intelligent (more often than not, a tactician or strategist of some sort). This is actually my first time playing a Tabletop RPG, ever (with the exception of a couple of sessions I played with a friend's homebrew, before he scrapped it in favor of just straight-up Pathfinder).

As for why I'd rather not do that, eh...I'm very particular about my originality. I get really self-conscious if a character I create has any similarities to other characters, even if the similarities are something as minor as similar personality traits or physical appearances. I even feel this way if my character was created BEFORE the one I project the similarities onto. Not so much, "they ripped me off," but more, "well, it's not such an original idea anymore." I don't want a ground-breaking super character that's got such an awesome story and concept that he gets added to the official Pathfinder canon, but I DO want some semblance of originality, of making it my own.

Yeah, I guess that's true concerning the Brawler/Gunner. I have my doubts anyone will be offended, it was just sort of a musing, I guess. What's...PFS?

Weston Brock wrote:

Also, if I DID retrain Fast Learner at level 20 (the "usual way," not the replacement Combat Feat way), does that mean I'd also lose the 19 points I invested in Skills?

Yes, you would lose them. It doesn't matter how you lose the feat - if the feat goes, so do all of its benefits.

As for retraining Toughness, a magic item that boosts your Constitution by 2 points gives the same amount of hit points as well as a small boost to your Fortitude save, and is relatively cheap. So that is a way to get the same effects as Toughness without having to get the feat.

Hm... Well, 20 HP doesn't seem to be that much later on, but that one extra Feat could potentially make quite a difference... I think, perhaps, I will take either Toughness or Fast Learner, but not both. If I intend to replace one later, though, it seems Toughness would be my best bet, as I still get to keep the Skill Points as long as I only invest my level up bonuses in those.

By the way, do you guys think you could help me out with my other post on the Advice subforum, please? Should be easy to find if you click my profile. I've only posted in two threads.

You could add further explain your character left Cheliax. For example he could have had a rival or a falling out with the local clergy/government.

Another way would be to put another spin on it. As described your character sounds like a Byronic hero. Instead he could talk all about truth and justice but only be in it for the money

Hm. Well, from what I understand, Cheliax is Chaotic Evil, or at least some form of Evil. I honestly don't know what the place is like, what goes on there, how the people act, or what, so at this point, all I can say is that he got sick of all the bullcrap that (presumably, on my part) happened on a daily basis. When he learned of what Andoran was like, he decided it would be a great opportunity to make a new beginning for himself.

Now, this is probably going to confuse people who know more about these locations than I do, most likely questioning just what it was specifically about these places that made him gravitate more towards one than the other. I'd probably be able to flesh this out more if I knew where I could read up on what they're like.

Anyone?

Weston Brock wrote:

LazarX wrote:

Weston Brock wrote:

Jeraa wrote:

Also note that fighters can't retrain all feats - only those gained as fighter bonus feats. A fighter can't use his class ability to retrain Fast Learner, as it isn't on the list of available fighter bonus feats.

Hm... Does that include the bonus feats he automatically gets as a Fighter? Could I replace Simple Weapon Proficiency with another Feat? It's not listed as a prerequisite to Martial or Exotic, and since I'm not going to be using any Simple weapons, it's virtually useless.

Also, if I DID retrain Fast Learner at level 20 (the "usual way," not the replacement Combat Feat way), does that mean I'd also lose the 19 points I invested in Skills?

No you can't cheese your free hard-wired feats, which are your base class features.

Eh, fair enough. I'm not coming off as a "munchkin" right now, am I?

Nope, it's just a question that's come up in the past and caused much arguing before being squashed by pathfinder design people.

While hp is nice to have, the more deadly things at high levels tend to be "make this saving throw or be in a world of hurt", so the suggestions above are pretty decent. At most levels, it's also typically better to kill things quickly than to try and soak their damage (*unless you're really specialized for that task). As a fighter, you should naturally have enough hp to not be the first on the chopping block when things get rough.

Hm... Should I do what I originally planned to do, then? Take on Toughness at an early level, then retrain it into a different feat when 20 HP doesn't make much of a difference? It's actually stuff like that that kinda makes me worry that I might be munchkin-ing, seeing as how I'm deliberately trying to make my character as strong as I can.

Weston Brock wrote:

Jeraa wrote:

Also note that fighters can't retrain all feats - only those gained as fighter bonus feats. A fighter can't use his class ability to retrain Fast Learner, as it isn't on the list of available fighter bonus feats.

Hm... Does that include the bonus feats he automatically gets as a Fighter? Could I replace Simple Weapon Proficiency with another Feat? It's not listed as a prerequisite to Martial or Exotic, and since I'm not going to be using any Simple weapons, it's virtually useless.

Also, if I DID retrain Fast Learner at level 20 (the "usual way," not the replacement Combat Feat way), does that mean I'd also lose the 19 points I invested in Skills?

No you can't cheese your free hard-wired feats, which are your base class features.

Eh, fair enough. I'm not coming off as a "munchkin" right now, am I?

Play him like Doc Holliday.

Had to look him up. MMMMMMAYBEEEEEEEE if I play a Gunslinger in a future campaign. I kind of already have a sort of Brawler/Gunslinger hybrid in mind. Like the star of a blaxploitation film. Afro, martial arts, pistols, bell bottoms, platform shoes, jacket (GM permitting for the clothing items, of course), fights against "The Man" (so Chaotic alignment), jive turkey-manner of speech, the works. Think Black Dynamite in Tabletop RPG character form. ...Is that racist? It sounds fun as hell, but I don't want to be perceived as racist.

Also note that fighters can't retrain all feats - only those gained as fighter bonus feats. A fighter can't use his class ability to retrain Fast Learner, as it isn't on the list of available fighter bonus feats.

Hm... Does that include the bonus feats he automatically gets as a Fighter? Could I replace Simple Weapon Proficiency with another Feat? It's not listed as a prerequisite to Martial or Exotic, and since I'm not going to be using any Simple weapons, it's virtually useless.

Also, if I DID retrain Fast Learner at level 20 (the "usual way," not the replacement Combat Feat way), does that mean I'd also lose the 19 points I invested in Skills?

Okay, so our GM is getting pretty close to finishing the campaign (or at least getting to a point where we can start playing it). All he needs is our characters' backstories, and then we can start. It took me a while, but I think I finally came up with something.

My character is a Chelaxian human male Fighter. He's relatively tall, around 5'10"-6', in his mid-20's, has hazel eyes, and either dusty blonde or black hair (I was probably going to settle on black, as the dusty blonde was leftover from when I was considering a Paladin, and Chelaxians typically have black hair, as far as I know). Fed up with the way things were in Cheliax, he decided to leave and settle down in Andoran, eking out a living as a mercenary, armed with a Bastard Sword in one hand, a Heavy Steel Shield in the other, a Composite Longbow for ranged attacks, and protected by Medium Armor. He had a mind for tactics (having the Tactician Fighter archetype), enjoyed a drink or two every so often, and appreciated the company of women. Throughout the campaign, he was going to start as True Neutral, and slowly gravitate towards Neutral Good, and while he wasn't particularly cynical, his time in Cheliax left him a little world-weary. If you asked him if he worshiped any gods, he'd likely respond with something along the lines of, "I've never been much for worship, though I wouldn't mind having a drink with Cayden Cailean." I figured that after this, I would've had a relatively decent character planned out.

Then I read up a bit on Valeros.

To those of you who know what I'm talking about, you can probably see why this would be a problem.

So, now that you understand my plight, I don't suppose anyone could possibly help me tweak my story a bit so that it isn't a carbon copy of Valeros'?

If you somehow lose access to a feat (either through retraining or no longer meeting the prerequisites) you lose whatever benefits you gained from the feat. You only get the benefits of the feat if you currently have it and meet any prerequisites required.

So if you train away Toughness, you lose all the hit points it gave you. Likewise, if you had both Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization, and you trained away Weapon Focus, you also lose the benefits of Weapon Specialization as you no longer meet its prerequisites (though you would still have the Weapon Specialization feat, you just can't use it).

...Well, damn. Well, I know this next question belongs in the Advice subforum, but while we're on the subject, would it be a huge loss if I replaced Toughness at a later level?

Hi, I'm new to Pathfinder, and the whole Tabletop scene in general. Since I'm more used to playing video games and having all the rules and calculations already done for me, it's taking some getting used to to adjust to the rules of Pathfinder. It's all rather overwhelming, especially since Pathfinder offers many more options than I'm used to in other games. There's something I want to know concerning Feats that affect level up bonuses: if you replace that feat later on, do you lose all those accumulated bonuses? For example, I play as a human Fighter. Rather, I will play as a human Fighter. It is my understanding that at later levels, I'm allowed to replace old Feats with new ones. So, say I took on Fast Learner at level 1, and Toughness at level 3. If my calculations are correct (and be gentle, as I wasn't particularly thorough with them), then at level 20, I'll have 19 extra HP from Fast Learner (rather, from not having to choose between HP and skill points), and 20 extra HP from Toughness (under the assumption that I get a new Hit Die for every level; again, the rules are a bit confusing for me), making for a total of 39 extra HP if I kept them both to the end. Due to the ability for Fighters to replace old Feats every four levels after a certain point, if I replaced Toughness at level 16, and Fast Learner at level 20, would I lose the HP and Skill Point bonuses they already provided, or would I keep them, but lose the bonuses they provide upon leveling up (which, if I replaced them in that manner, would only amount to a meager loss of 4-7 HP)?