VampireToad's page

Shfish --- it's not a trip... it just uses that combat maneuver, albeit modified to be aplicible to a caster/spell since it isn't an actual trip.

SlimGauge --- I agree a flying creature can't BE prone. My quection is really "what happens when a flying creature suffers an affect that'd knock a standing creature prone"?

Remy Balster --- also agree... but in your example would the target fall?

When something's prone, it's essentially been knocked on its ass, regardless whether it's via a trip or via force. So if a flying creature takes the same blow/impact that a knocks a standing creature straight to the ground, why would we assume the creature just keeps on flying like nothing ever happened? The "trip check" essentially determines whether the force effect knocks something down/off balance. If successful, why would the creature not fall?

If I wind up and hit my 3 year old with a tennis racket, he's going to fall prone. If I could somehow hit a hawk that's the same size with a tennis racket in-flight, it's going to fall (until it recovers in-air or hits the ground prone).

I found the following from 3.5:

Tripping Flyers (3.5): A creature flying with wings can be tripped. If the attempt succeeds, the creature stalls and falls 150 feet. Creatures that fly without wings (and any creature with perfect maneuverability) can't be tripped while flying. If the creature is still in the air after stalling, it must succeed on a DC 20 Reflex save to recover and resume flying. Otherwise it falls another 300 feet. If it hits the ground, it lands prone and takes falling damage.

Anything similar in Pathfinder? Something like this makes much more sense than having ALL flying creatures immune to effects that would knock another creature prone.

Is there an official ruling on this combo? Toppling spells use a "trip check" to see if the spell knocks a BBEG prone, but it's not actually tripping a creature... it's "knocking" it prone. So is there any reason a flying creature wouldn't be knocked prone and fall if the "trip check" succeeds, similar to how a standing creature is knocked prone if the "trip check" succeeds?

Thanks for your feedback, this one came up yesterday and we couldn't find a ruling, just a semi-relevant rule about a "stall" (and fall) from 3.5... but again, this is technically not a trip.

FYI.....

Toppling Spell: Your spells with the force descriptor knock the affected creatures prone.

Benefit: The impact of your force spell is strong enough to knock the target prone. If the target takes damage, fails its saving throw, or is moved by your force spell, make a trip check against the target, using your caster level plus your casting ability score bonus (Wisdom for clerics, Intelligence for wizards, and so on). This does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If the check fails, the target cannot attempt to trip you or the force effect in response.

A toppling spell only affects spells with the force descriptor.

Magic Missile states: "If you shoot multiple missiles, you can have them strike a single creature or several creatures. A single missile can strike only one creature. You must designate targets before you check for spell resistance or roll damage."

So let's say I get 3 missiles. a) do I need to designate the target for all 3 missiles before firing the first missile, or b) can I designate a target, roll damage, then designate another target (same or different is irrelevant), roll damage, then designate another target, roll damage.

Based on the text "You must designate targets before you check for spell resistance or roll damage", I would think the latter is acceptable. The spell says nothing about the 3 missiles being fired simultaneously. I don't think there's even a gray area, as the spell would have said "You must designate targets before you FIRE THE FIRST MISSILE." had it been intended that way.

Example: I know BBEG is low on HP but our survival depends on dropping him this round. Do I need to fire all 3 missiles at BBEG to be safe (which is a), above) or can I fire one missile, see if it drops him, and if so fire the other missiles at other targets (which is b), above)?

I'm playing my first caster after a long lineage of melee-types. In previous campaigns, other casters in my group have always played Magic Missile as described in b), but I think they're playing it wrong and somewhat nerfing the spell in certain situations (like my above example). Accordingly, I'd like to be prepared for what'll surely be a debate when I bring this up. Thanks in advance for the feedback!