Tymin's page

Well, I'm glad to see I managed to kickstart the idea of adding smgs to this game. Feels good.

Still no word on how the Mechanic abilites Coordinated Assault and Control Net work with the Experimental Prototypes.

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Suggestions:
Control net functions as it would normally, but only between prototypes, or all four archetypes if paizo deems it so.
(not that I would ever use it myself, I'd rather replace the ability entierly with something actually useful, but that's just my personal opinion)

Coordinated assault: Functions as it would normally with a drone (+1 circumstance bonus to your attack rolls), but only against targets marked by Superior Firepower or Calibrate Defense abilities.

Wait, we're not talking about player races? Because I was talking about player races.

You mean like the entire appendix of Alien Archive 1? :p

That's not rules for player races, the ones in Alien Archive are for npcs and creatures.

Wait, we're not talking about player races?

We just need more robot races, period.
Hey, you know what would fix this? A race builder like Pathfinder 1 got.

Yup, this nanite investment is beyond me. Why not use the cap to say "You can take THIS many ITEMS of those types"? Just say, "At level 1, you can have 2 Major Forms in any combination of weapons and cybernetics". So EITHER 2 weapons OR 2 cybernetics OR 1 weapon and 1 cybernetic. Why go through the whole UPB thingy, when you can simplify the process? I think this makes it simpler. Kind of the same way Prototype Mechanics can get a free weapon or armor so long as the mechanic is level 1 or the weapon/armor is 2 levels lower than your mechanic level.
I hope this makes sense, my brain is not with me today. I'm still trying to wrap my head around this class.

It would make more sense to create individual threads and click the FAQ button on them than to throw random "you forgot" posts into a general thread about the questions that have been answered.

I did actually make a thread about the hoverdrone wisdom issue in august 2019. No real answer came to light. Same with the other problem, there have been threads, but looking at my post history, I was the last one to comment in both the thread I made, and the other one. No official answer has been given.

Three new race names and no new races in Near Space. Hoping we get an announcement for AA4 in the near future. :)

I hope AA4 has multiple playable robots, or a racebuilder so I can make my own robot races.

So hoverdrones are meant to have a -2 to wisdom for absolutely no reason whatsoever? Come on, the 6 str I can understand, but the 8 wis is just plain dumb. There's no reason for that! If it has to do with chassi size, then shouldn't there be a ton of drone mods it can't employ? Where's the logic here?

Oh, and you forgot the whole Mechanic "Coordinated Assault" and "Control Net" not being compatible with the prototype class features due to wording. They're both an easy fix, though, just saying you should add them in.

You didn't say you needed it "complete". :)

The FAQ is what we have. There is nothing else. Many of us would like updates to the FAQ. But I would also like a pony, and my own talk show.

Yeah, except ponies and talk shows require an absurd amount of money and attention in the long run, and an errata does not, be it us or Paizo staff. An faq is not an errata, nor should it be treated as one, it's for "frequently asked questions". The fact that we all want a complete errata, or in this case, faq, is self-explanatory, just like how any gamer worth his salt wants a game with as few bugs as possible and patches when needed. Now stop acting smug just because someone didn't include a word.

Aaand that's what I get for not looking at more classes than maybe three. The fact that Bombards focus on strenght is a happy little coincidence. And now I have a new idea for a character. Thanks for the tip.

Create Ammunition 1st level Technomancer spell plus Transfer Charge cantrip allows you to recharge your empty standard batteries and avoid the minute/level limitation of Create Ammunition.

I was thinking about taking Technomantic Dabbler at lvl 5 for my mechanic, and I didn't know what my second cantrip should be (energy ray being the first). Even with the restrictions of the spell, Transfer Charge could be worth it. I was already liking Create Ammunition because it can be used universally. It was either Technomantic Dabbler or Climbing/Swimming Master for lvl 5. If it doesn't work, I'll just make use of a mnemonic whatever and redo.

However, what's the maximum amount of ammo you can create with Create Ammunition? Can I create two batteries/ 40 pieces of ammo?

I want to see a class based on explosives. Think Pathfinder's alchemist bombers. Str and Int based, focus on grenades and custom explosives. Basic melee, small arms, heavy weapons (for grenade launchers), grenades, light AND heavy armor (have to protect yourself against explosives). Maybe longarms too, it depends. Good Ref and Fort saves, bad will save. 15 bab class. They get custom explosives (maybe 11 in total starting with one at lvl1 and every other level), such as breaching charges that destroy walls and cover, thermite bombs, anti-personel mines, anti-tank, directional explosives, gas bombs, mines and grenades, and many more.
Bonus to engineering and bomb-making. The only class to get specialization with grenades, maybe? The higher your level, the better your bombs. Good at throwing things too, obviously (finally a good use for those axes and spears, huh?).
Their focus is acting as demolition experts, sporting grenade launchers, missiles, mines, and much else that go boom. They need strength to carry and throw, and intelligence for crafting. 4+int skills. Class abilities such as calculated splash to prevent damage to allies getting caught in your own blasts, crit expansion, increased blast radius, creating grenades from scraps, etc. General mayhem.

I'd enjoy such a class. Could work well with a new armory book as well, maybe a new heavy armor to help reduce blast damage, multiple grenades, launchers, missiles, and so on.

For some reason, as I was pondering about my character at work today, a thought struck me: why do I feel like there are no sub-machine guns in Starfinder? Smgs are a staple for operative and mechanic-type characters in video games, if not shotguns for the mechanic. They could be some sub-category between small arms and longarms, some can be used one-handed, other's requireing two hands. Obviously some needs the operative quality. nice mix of kinetic and energy weapons. They would be a nice addition for mechanics and operatives, along with other classes that have longarm proficiency. Middling damage and range, good ammo capacity.

We also need more basic melee weapons for all levels of play.

On another note, I'd like to see more heavy weapons in general. Since fire is apparently such a normal resistance, I'm starting to worry about my choice in heavy weapon for my prototype mechanic focusing on overcharge line of tricks (gonna participate in a Attack on the Aeon Throne campaign starting later this month).
More armors would alse be nice, especially in the specialty category. Some changes to scatterguns to make them more valid would be nice too. As some have said, making your own weapons and armor would be great, an itembuilder ala the race builder. Would be great for prototype mechanics, and would give crafting-focusing characters something to do. Could be a great source of income for some, combining artistry with custom quality arms and armor. Not that I ever bother with proffesion skills.

Huh... I wonder how a weapon that already deals two types of damage deals with Mechanic's Prototype Weapon's level 15 ability Dual Chambers, which lets you add a type of damage (Yes, a TYPE of damage) to the prototype weapon that the base weapon does not normally deal. So far I'm thinking adding sonic to a laser weapon. No Idea if it will be effective.

The more I think about it, a digital tabletop a la roll20, built exclusively for SF, is likely. Possibly with a roboGM built in

Robogm? As in, an automated gamemaster? As in, I can play it alone, just need to make a dungeon or something? I'd be totally up for that. At least then I can finally make a testrun.

Personally, I hope it's either a complete errata for all existing SF products currently available (Including COM) OR a racebuilder, similar to the one for Pathfinder 1e. I really hope its a racebuilder, I have a mighty need to populate my galaxy with all sorts of weird aliens and robots. I played a lot with the one featured in Pathbuilder 1, making all sorts of races. But for starfinder, its even more important. Especially for robots. One can only hope.

Everybody gangsta until the mechanic whips out his +40 DMG artillery laser. Sure, prototypes lose out on the Overclocking series of mechanic tricks, and yes, Paizo should have put a little more thought into making sure the prototypes were compatible with all mechanic class features, or replace those entirely with new features that work with prototypes. There are faults here and there, not gonna lie. Prototype Tinkerer and Mod Tinkerer should also be the same thing, not counted as two different tricks in my opinion. Hopefully Paizo can bring this better to light in some errata SOON. Like, before Christmas soon. One can hope.

I'm still gonna run a prototype weapon though, 'cause that's kickass.

It’s not unprecedented for Paizo to print archetypes that mess with a base class and orphan some later class features they didn’t think about. It was problem #2349 on Ultimate Wilderness.

Problem #2349? did Ultimate Wilderness have over 2000 problems, or was that problem #2349 in Pathfinder in general? Dumb jokes aside, I am now very curious what paizo will do to fix this. Do you think they'll release a short statement or wait to release an errata? I'm looking forward to it none the less. More fun times for my mechanic.

How does work cordinate assault (from mechanic) now with experimental weapon or armor?. Because it has reference to exocortex and drone but not to new options.

Oh wow, how did that get past Q&A? This also affects Control Net (Ex), the level 17 ability that lets you split your levels between your drone and exocortex, though I assume it just does the same for the prototypes. Good job spotting that, as prototypes do not feature a level 11 equivalent.

I also noticed that Prototype Weapon's Advanced Customization (lvl 7) does not have any option at level 14, unlike the prototype armor. I wonder why, though I might have a guess as to why that is.

Melee currently rules the roost of damage by a long shot, and has the added advantage of not being nearly as dependent on equipment upgrades to do so.

Starfinder made haste BETTER by turning it into flying minipounce of death. So for melee round 1 is haste circuit move charge! and after that you're full attacking all the time with your hasted jetpack of cleaving fire axe awesomeness. Unwieldy weapons HURT but they don't hurt three times as much.

Dagnabbit. I don't want to do a melee build in a sci-fi game. I wanted to one-hand a home-made siege laser. Guess I'll keep tinkering with the idea, but stick to my vanguard instead for actual play.

The counter-points I was given was "Envoys should use big, Unwieldy weapons," and "Heavy weapons do more damage, use those." Unwieldy weapons can only be fired 1/round, and heavy weapons don't do much more (if any) base damage than an advanced melee weapon of similar level. So, 1 shot/round dealing (comparable weapon damage)+level vs. 3/ a round dealing (comparable weapon damage)+level+Strength+(1/2 again strength or charisma, or charisma+1/2 level or whatever)= your melee guys just doing around 3x as much damage. Yes that -6 might impact accuracy, but let's face it, enemy ACs are low, and if you are running around with 22 strength and weapon focus, you are probably going to hit most of the time. I know my soldier did.

Excuse me?? Heavy weapons aren't doing the most damage? Then what's the point?? I've been making big plans to make a prototype heavy weapon mechanic with overcharge. If heavy weapons aren't as good as I thought, then that really throws a wrench in my gears. Darn, do I have to redo my build?

Actually, thought of a new thing: Enhanced Prototype Proficiency (5th lvl weapon ability) lets you wield a two-handed prototype weapon with only one hand without any penalties what-so-ever; How does that play with power armor and weapon slots? Does the proto weapon require two slots, or can it only take one slot?

Of course I'm gonna one hand my siege laser like a badass, what kind of limp biscuit do you take me for?

You get a free weapon that is an actual published weapon, then modify it per your class abilities.

You would buy one if you want a weapon of an item level greater than your level -2 (minimum 1). The free prototype doesn't upgrade, although you can deliberately lose/destroy it to create a free replacement of your level -2. So at level 4 you can finally get a level 2 weapon for free, but you might prefer to buy a level 3 or 4 (or 5 or 6 if you can afford it!) base weapon. The rules for this are on page 72 before they talk specifically about the armor and weapon options.

I see. They didn't make that entirely clear, but now it makes more sense. I guess I'll go for the Azimuth artillery laser as my first weapon then.

So, about the mechanic experimental prototype weapon...

You begin play with one weapon with an item level of 1 for free, or you can buy any weapon normally and designated it as your weapon prototype.

My question is, what constitutes as free in this regard? Do I just pick an item level 1 weapon, like an Azimuth Artillery Laser (heavy), or do I pick and choose from the armory list and take whatever traits I want, damage die and all? It says I can pay for a weapon, but why would I? I feel there is a table or two missing from the mechanist COM section because of this "free". The heavy projectile weapons make for an interesting choice, as ammunition for heavies aren't available until lvl 2, so making a Siege Laser-like weapon is more ideal for the Overcharge-focused mechanist.

Also, I think "designated" is wrong, shouldn't that be "designate" instead? It sure flows better.

Second question: Advanced Customization
If I'm reading it correctly, at 17th level, you can only have a max of two properties and one crit effect. Do you think this is correct?

I'm in the middle of making a prototype weapon build, haven't even gotten to the feats yet. Here's hoping we get a race builder next so I can have fun making new alien races, particularly robots.

While I'm at it, for the proto armor's energy shield (15th level ability), does it stack with the mechanic trick energy shield and improved energy shield and so on?

Double tap is a feat?! As if this game didn't already HOUND me with feats that are more important, what with three of my feats locked behind level 5, forcing me to spend six levels in total to get them all. Characters get way to few feats in this game, or maybe I was just too good at Pathfinder, and now that has come back to bite me in the behind. Most characters I played, I spent feats on getting Extra class stuff, like discoveries for alchemists and rogue talents. In fact, my most feat heavy character ever was a hobgoblin brawler based on intimidation and causing bleed. A very evil character, but fun.

Alright, so how is the engineer options, prototype armor and weapon? Man, I wish I could play an overpowered game of double and take both prototypes without sacrificing levels. Like in Spheres of Power and their mechanist class. I'm looking forward to digging into the book, but I fear I have to make my own houseruled version so I can actually get what I want. I need a new character concept that isn't a super-mobile engineer (climbing, swimming, flying (thanks, dronemeld)) so I can actually get feats that I need like long arms, and this new feat tax that is Double Tap. Oh yeah, operatives just got even stronger with that feat, didn't they? Man, that sucks for everybody else.

But yeah, main question, what do the engineers get?

62.
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63. A small file containing the original Doom. Can be played on literally anything with a screen and a few buttons or touchscreen controls. Literally anything.

64. BILLY MAYS HERE! No, it's actually an AI constructed from years worth of Billy Mays vidoes. And he will constantly try to sell the pcs something. Can be employed as a very intense marketing AI.

65. A series of politically incorrect shirren memes made by ysokis from last year, one sector over. Nothing special, though #32 is kinda funny.

66. A laundry list. It's just a laundry list. Of clothes. Who cryptates laundry lists behind a dc 10 computer check?!

67. ONE UNBELIVABLE TRICK THAT ACTUALLY WORK! MOBS HATE IT! CLICK HERE TO FIND OUT!

68. A fanfic of unbelivable lenght and cringe, but it's real, and it's right in front of you. Oh god, just the first sentence makes you ill. Even the computer its on gets sick.

69 terabytes of

70. Congratulations, you know have over 800 billion task bars. I suggest just deleting your webbrowser and starting anew.

While "agency" is the wrong word to use here, I understand what you mean. Pathfinder 2 has a problem I simply call "not enough slots". It's nothing revolutionary. Simply put, all classes have a set amount of "slots" for class features, or feats, to put in. In pathfinder 1, you could in some cases sacrifice normal feats for extra class abilites (extra discovery, rogue talent, barbarian stuff, etc). I was a heavy user of this on my rogues and alchemists, easily stacking on an extra 8 or 9 abilities/discoveries/talents. It was fun. Pathfinder doesn't have anything like that, unless you're a human and pick Natural Ambition, which only gives you a level 1 class feat (still useful). The Ancestry feats is actually what I like the most about Pathfinder 2, I just wish there were more of them for each race, and more evolving ones as well. Like, forge dwarf with their fire resistance, imagine if you could evolve it into breathing fire, spitting magma, fire immunity, etc. For gnomes, more magical spells as you level up. So much you could do with it. Humans actually get the worst in terms of heritages, and don't have all that many useful ancestries, but the proficiency one is still very strong in its own right.

I also take issue with the lack of pure general feats (hefty hauler, fleet, Adopted ancestry). There are some strong ones, sure, but there could also be more of them. I'm not fond of the overlap in general - general/skill feats, and would like for them to be seperated into just general feats and skill feats.

Robots, robots, robots and even more robots. Big ones, small ones, shoulder guns, laser eyes, nuclear chests and skullguns. And a race builder so I can just do all the work myself and make my own galaxy's worth of robots. I'd totally make the ultimate soldier and engineer race just for fun. Who knowns, maybe if I make enough OP races, I can run an entire campaign based on them. That could be fun. But yes, a builder is imperative for Starfinder. With an entire universe, I have to populate it. I will always champion for more robots in sci-fi! Not androids or those sillylooking toys in Pactworlds, nonono, we're talking terminators, retrobots, marvins, spidertanks, swarmbots and more.

Boosting INT might be OK. But making that higher INT duplicate the effects of the higher level drone autonomy abilities (expert AI, true AI) is probably a bit too powerful.

When I wrote autonomy, I did not mean it as in more action, but more as in flavour. I really hope this gets taken up by the FAQ/ Errata team. Honestly, this isn't even my biggest issue with Starfinder, but that's for some other thread.

Well, until and unless we get some guidance from the devs, you can run it how you see best.

The ability to fly and hover doesn't work so well so I am not sure that it is worth 6 points lower in ability score.

Taking a stealth drone chassis and adding one flight module would probably be better in general power level. And could still do basically anything that a hover drone can do.

Oh wow. That's... not good. But I'm sure most gms would be fine with making hover work the way it should.

I only wanted more robots. And a race builder so I could build my robots if I wasn't happy with the ones in the book. There were none. Mood: Disappointed. Run sulk.exe.

Gnomes can get a free cantrip or two as well, depending on your choices. Or you can take Adopted Ancestry and gain a cantrip on a non-gnome character. I did that for my Human Alchemist. Heightened cantrips are super-op and should be really fun.

Hmm...

The other two drone chassis have a total combined ability score value of 48. The hover drone has only 42. So it is missing more than just the 2 points in WIS.

Honestly, I'd be happy with just an increase in wisdom to 10 to be in line with the other two drones. But if compensation has to be in order, then... Well, increasing attributes further I think are too much, maybe an extra mod slot or feat would be a better compensation for the lack in strength?

I made a human bomber Alchemist that was raised by gnomes. On level 3 he gets a cantrip, and I picked Acid Splash for the damage. I think I just found a way around the whole reagent problem. Honestly, my biggest issue is the only 11 class feats you can pick. I was (and still am) a huge fan of Extra Discovery back in PF1, and would love to see it come back. I had to skip over debiliating bomb completely because there were so many other things I wanted instead. I think my alchemist will do fine, provided I ever get to play. Been spending a lot of time going over my build again and again, tweaking and changing things, moving skills and feats around. I love building characters, but I think this game is lacking in purely general feats (aka feats that only have the "general" tag, like fleet and ancestral paragon does).

Aargh, I wish I had seen this thread before I posted my question regarding the wisdom score of hover drones.

https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42qnb?Tiny-Drone-Wisdom#1

This has been bothering me for a long time. In the corebook, the mechanic hover drone has only 6 STR (makes sense, it's tiny and light, unlike combat and stealth drone) and, for some weird reason, 8 Wisdom, as opposed to 10 of the other two types. Why? Why does the tiny drone have a worse wisdom than the other two drone types? The strength I understand, but the lower wisdom score is just wierd.

Still no race builder? DISAPPOINTED! I just want to play a proper robot mechanic.

I wish I had seen this before I answered the surveys on Alchemists. Guess I'll have another gander at it. Doesn't really change my mind about playtest alchemists, it just makes me want to homebrew 1e alchs to have the things I liked from the playtest. While I'm fine with the bomber build (I always go bombs away, bombs are why I picked the class up when I was first introduced to pathfinder), it's such a shame to see my fav class be so... boring. Why do they insist on making every class weaker in 2e? I don't know, I just feel like pathfinder 2 should have been more of a sequel, with all that entails, instead of what we have now. Honestly, Paizo should just put aside the playtest for now and redo the entire thing, that's what I would do if I were them.

Nobody is really talking about alchemists, so I'll change that right now.

1. Bring back the old mutagen. Boost to physical, a lesser bane to mental. No onset time. I used mutagens all the time in PF1. Great way to boost myself. My biggest gripe is that I never got to play with upgraded mutagens due to the high level requirement (level 12, seriously? And why let me upgrade again already at level 16?) Instead, have more options to add to the mutagens. I'd love it if the mutagen did more interesting things. I'm not much fan of feral mutagen myself, since my alchemists are more focused on being a bomber, and in PF2, I'd like to keep doing that, especially now that I can deal elemental damage much easier. Make interesiting additions to mutagens, so it does more than just boost my physical stats.

2. Intelligence mod to bomb damage and splash. Why did you change this at all?

3. More bomb options. One thing that always annoyed me in PF1 is how I can't make all my bombs explode bigger with "Explosive bomb". Explosive bomb discovery turned your bomb from a burst 5 into a burst 10, but only affected normal bombs. You couldn't use this with acid or smoke bombs, which is just stupid in my opinion. I want to carpet bomb a large area with acid or disease, or fill an entire goblin dungeon with poisonous smoke, please let me. And add more fun things I can add to my bomb, like making it explode a second time (Sticky bomb).

4. Running out of ideas here, so I'll just add "More fun options for potions and extracts and other alchemical items". One thing I think would be fun, would be to make all my potions have a small healing effect. Imagine giving a Bull's Strenght potion to your barbarian. And then he gets 1d6+Con's worth of temporary hit points. And that goes for all potions. I mean, come on. Alchemists live and BREATHE alchemical items, why not let us boost them in some capacity? Have a standard healing potion, but it also gives you +1 to hit, or removes poison. Here's a Cat's Grace potion, but it also gives you +2STR. That sort of thing. Alchemists are about combining alchemical reagents into items, it makes sense that they would be able to boost them in some way outside of just making them stronger. You know, fun things.

5. I have nothing more to say, so I'll just add in "Fix ancestries/races". As they are now, ancestries are a waste of time, incredibly boring, and frankly worthless. Also, why didn't you give humans something to make up for their lack of power? Humans have always gotten an extra feat and skill point, why in the world would you change this to literally nothing?

I hope you can fix PF2 into an actual viable product. The Alchemist class needs a proper revision, it feels very much like a patchwork class that doesn't know what it wants.
And remove resonance, I don't need it, nor do I want it.

You people seem to forget that humans have nothing but the two free boosts. Where's the extra feat? What should replace extra skill point per level? I say give humans at least one extra ancestry feat, and fix the language thing. Paizo are gonna have to think long and hard about this.

This is a rant. You've been warned.
More ancestry feats at lvl 1 is great and all, but what do humans get? Three? Four? We don't get extra skill points anymore, and you are capped to one extra language regardless of having 12 or 18 int (really? F@+% you). Humans are ridiculously weak in this edition, whereas in 1ed they had their strenght being generalists (Or using focused study. Or learning two languages per point spent in linguistics). Oh hey, you want to know more lanugages? Pay up A F$!+ING FEAT. No f+&%ing way am I wasting a feat to know more languages. Gods, why did Paizo make everything into feats in this edition? I know I write angry words, because this actually makes me agitated. And I just noticed the size thing, mentioned above, it pointless!

I want to play 2ed, because I like some of the changes they did alchemists (my fav class), like giving us access to other elemental type damages via formulas like acid and bottled lightning, but I hate what they have done with mutagens, bomb damage, and so much more. It sucks. And this annoys me, because I'm desperate for a high level adventure. I never got to use stronger mutagens in 1ed because we never got to lvl 12 (where you can get greater mutagen) and then you can upgrade four levels later (16) to Grand Mutagen. I want to see the return of the old mutagen, when it was easily understood, without any onset time, and just have fun throwing bombs all over the place like I'm frigging Megumin or some other explosion based character, and make rainbow explosions (one of every single type of bomb, anybody?). Maybe spend my downtime being a doctor, helping the sick and poor for very little personal gain, just because I can.

If this is best they can do...I'm afraid that they can go beg in front of WotC for spare change. Not that employees there have much :p

Races mean nothing before 9th level.

Racial feats should be improving your race strengths, not get a longbow proficiency at 9th level because you found something more useful before.

3 racial feats and one general feat at 1st level could have save racial problem.

Humans should get extra feat.

what is the range of darkvision? line of sight?
It should be 30ft max.

What is the hate towards longbow?

Is this "pathfinder" or "path to finding best way to bludgeon someone on the head with a hammer"?

multi attack penalties are huge. -3/-6 would be better.

See, this I can agree with. The "Ancestral feats" should define the character WHEN YOU MAKE THEM (I've never used the paizo forums before, I don't know how formatting works here), giving each race 2 or 3 feats and 1 general feats (along with an extra 1 for humans because that's what humans are known for in pathfinder and D&D (variant humans)) just seems to make sense to me. But how do you fix halflings? I need to have a closer look at the ancestral feats for each race, right now I'm going through animal companions and familiars.

Humans
nothing. But 2 free boosts and no penalty, and feats no one else can match

As far as I can tell size does nothing. Halflings just look weirdly void compared to all the other non-humans, and gnomes are fairly rubbish. That speed penalty hurts a lot.

Yeah, humans and halflings have just about nothing. But you're gonna have to explain what you mean with "feats no one else can match".

I feel like humans should have access to two ancestry feats at level 1, it's just so.... human. No extra skill (point per level), no extra feat... Humans are very unappealing in this edition, but I can't let it go; my Human Alchemists were BEASTS in 1E.