Tiberius1701's page

Anyone who has attempted to play the chase rules has run into some of its big problems. Here's what I'm thinking of using...

1) All characters roll initiative each round. On the Piloting phase, those pilots act in their proper order. Then on the combat phase, all the other characters are slotted in to their proper spaces in between.

2) The "Keep Pace" pilot action's DC is now 5 + vehicle's item level.

3) Failure to Keep Pace, results in not moving forward, but does not result in moving back.

4) All characters in vehicles in a chase, fire at other vehicles in a chase using the lower vehicle attack modifier. The Full Speed modifier is used only in grid combat against lower speed or stationary targets, or against other high speed vehicles when they are going in divergent directions. The Full Speed modifier is never used in chases, as their directions and speeds are more closely relative.

5) There will be kept an overall "map speed" in increments of 5 mph. Typical chases begin at 40 mph, but GM may alter.

6) Every time a pilot in the chase successfully conducts a Speed Up maneuver, the map speed is increased by 5 mph. Every time a Slow Down maneuver is conducted, the map speed is reduced by 5 mph.

7) No vehicle may take part in a Speed Up action if it would bring the map speed to greater than twice its overland movement. Example: The Exploration Buggy has an overland movement of 40mph. It may not perform a Speed Up action if it would bring the map speed to greater than 80 mph (exactly 80 is fine).

8) If the map speed ever drops to 15 mph, the GM may choose to transition back to grid combat.

9) Very high Map Speeds makes piloting more difficult. For every 5 mph over 80 the Map Speed reaches, all piloting and attack checks receive a -1 penalty. For example: 85 mpg -1, 90 mph -2, 95 mph -3, 100 mph -4, and so on. Any piloting roll that received such a penalty, and fails by 10 or more, results in the vehicle crashing. It automatically strikes (is hit by) a damaging hazard (Table 8-4, p.285) with a CR equal to the level of the vehicle, plus the penalty. In addition, the vehicle comes to a stop and is out of the chase.

10) Fall damage for a character falling to the ground off a vehicle is increased for high map speeds. Follow the rule given in "Boarding" page 285, but apply an additional 1d6 at 50 mph, plus another 1d6 for each 20 mph thereafter.

Input appreciated. Also, if you've found problems with the chase rules I'd be interested to know, thanks :)

For those so inclined, or in need, I've worked out what I think is a feasible time/distance scale for SF...

We know the CRB states that hexes in space do not refer to a definite distance, and even combat rounds do not refer to a definite time period. This has the advantage of not getting us bogged down into math and minutia in our game. But it has the disadvantage of not mixing well with certain situations that may come up in a roleplaying game.

For example, how long does it take to travel from a planet to its moon without Drift travel? Can my sensors reach a planet or its moon? At my spaceship's speed, how much stamina have we regained by the time we get to orbit? Should I put a station, asteroid, moon, or planet on a tactical space map and how many hexes big should it be? We have to rev up a Drift drive for 1 minute. How long is that in combat? There are all kinds of reasons we may want to nail down some times and distances.

That is why I've created a fallback option for those who might want to work something out. I've landed on a distance and time based on: fitting as much as possible with existing game references and indicators, what seems a natural fit to the d20 system, and what seems to work within the distances typical to earth orbits in real life, and the kinds of events we see in common science fiction.

The following assumes:
1) The starship combat round is equal to a tactical round: 6 seconds.
2) A hex is 5 miles.

===============

Rationale on Round time:
Page 322 CRB "Other Actions in Starship Combat" sidebar states that characters may take one move OR one standard action on their turn. This might seem to indicate a starship turn is 3 seconds. But they also allow a Minor Crew Action when doing this. Therefore, the best adjustment is to say these limitations are assuming your character is participating in the running of the ship, as follows:

- A tactical round takes place just before the phases of a starship round begin ("at the beginning of the round before the Engineering phase" as the rules say).
- In the tactical round, you may act as normal. But if you wish to "fill a starship crew role" in the coming starship round, you must not move, must be at the relevant station, and must spend a Full Round Action to "fill a starship crew role".
- If you do not spend a Full Round Action to fill a starship role, you have the option of spending a move action conduct a Minor Crew Action, assuming you do so while at the proper console.
- It is assumed the tactical and starship rounds are taking place simultaneously, such that only 6 seconds have passed in total. They are played sequentially for the sake of practicality.

Now, in practice, if nothing important is going on WITHIN the ship, one can play the starship battle exactly as stated in the CRB, even keeping to the rule in the sidebar, and everything will be consistent.

Rationale on Hex distance:
First, we know that hexes are meant to be very large. This is why multiple Colossal ships can fly through the same hex and still only take up one hex themselves (a Colossal ship, by the way, would be at least 2.8 miles long, comfortably still fitting into 5 miles. Even Absalom Station - probably one of the largest stations (if not THE largest) will just fit into the hex.

Second, a distance of 5 mile hexes, with a round of 6 seconds, computes out to sublight speeds we might expect in science fiction and orbital flight. And third, d20 tactical squares are 5 ft. Vehicle squares for faster combat has been suggested to use 50 ft. squares, and 5 mile hexes seems consistent, elegant, and easy to compute with.

Now, let's look at some consequences of this time/distance scale. Although Starfinder default is to round down, for all of these I am rounding to the nearest, which seems to make more sense given the large distances...

=================

TYPICAL SPACE DISTANCES
First, consider the general scale when we say we are "at a planet". Let's use earth, earth orbits, and its moon as an example, and assume it to be an average for rocky habitable worlds (like Castrovel, Verces, Triaxus, etc).

-The distance to space from ground (height of atmosphere) : 62 mi (12 hexes)

-Low orbit: 100-1240 miles (20-248 hexes)
The International Space Station (ISS) orbit is: 254 mi (51 hexes) up.

-Medium orbit: 1240-22,236 mi.
GPS satellites orbit at about: 16,500 miles.

-Geosynchronous orbit: 22,236 mi.
This orbit allows an object to hover directly over one spot on the planet.

-High (graveyard) orbit: greater than 22,236 mi.

-Distance from earth to moon: 238,900 miles.

These distances would mean that a planet should not be on your tactical map (unless you happen to have a planet marker 132 ACTUAL feet wide). For the moon you would only need a marker 36 ACTUAL feet wide.

Most real life observed asteroids are between 30 feet (a speck) and the largest we've seen is 330 miles (66 hexes!) across, so you have plenty of options there. Asteroids could:

- occupy a hex and present a hazard if flying through
- fully occupy a hex, meaning entry = collision
- take up multiple hexes as large as you like

=================

SHIP SPEEDS

Ship Speed x 3000 = miles per hour (mph)

However, consider the "Full Power" pilot action allows straight movement at 1.5 x speed. I take this to mean a ship's speed is 1.5 x listed if you have a pilot dutifully working the helm to get the most out of the ship throughout the voyage. I would also rule that taxing the engines like this over the long term could lead to damage.

The Kevolari Venture, Medium Explorer (p.311 CRB) has a Speed of 6 (18,000 mph).
Or, at full power: 9 (27,000 mph)

That would mean it could go from high orbit (say 240,000 miles) to atmo in about 8.5 hours. Most likely they would simply have Drift traveled directly into high, medium, or low orbit as they wanted to begin with.

For comparison:

-ISS speed: orbits at 4.76 mi/sec (speed 6)

-Speed to remain in low earth orbit (Space Shuttle): 17,500 mph (speed 6)

-Voyager space probe: 38,610 mph (Speed 13)

You might think, "These are primitive craft, SF ships should be much faster!" Well, they are. In real life there is no 'top speed' (except for light, which we aren't even close). So, it's a matter of continuous acceleration. These speeds are really more about what is practical for orbital mechanics and gravity. The main point is that it takes real life earth ships a LONG time to get up to those speeds, which are the fastest human-created objects in history. SF ships can get to these speeds in 6 seconds, and there are plenty of faster examples.

Long-Term Sublight Travel:

In any case, this is attempting not to worry about acceleration issues. These speeds work pretty well enough and are incredibly fast. This was a similar issue they faced in having top speeds for long-term trips in vehicles, but a more practical/usable speed in tactical combat that represents what you get with fits-and-starts and turns, etc.

We can similarly assume the speeds can get much higher over long-term, long-distance sublight travel - but this is generally a non-issue since one would just go into Drift travel for interplanetary distances. Still, if the issue comes up, one simple way would be to switch to an Astronomical Unit (AU) scale for long-term ship speeds.

By this reckoning, you could say something that approximates higher speeds over longer times would be: The Speed of the ship represents how many AU it covers per week.

Speed = AU/week.

The distance between any inner-system rocky worlds at any give time would be 1d6 AU (earth-mars averages 2.6 AU). It is typically around 50 AU to the orbit of the outermost planets.

By the way, 1/2 of lightspeed is over 335 MILLION mph, or a speed of: 111,846 hexes per round. So, no need to even think about this and still be anything like the sublight scenes we see in sci fi.

Atmospheric Speeds:
It should be assumed that once you hit atmosphere, the ship slows dramatically, due to friction. In other words, you don't get from orbit to the ground in 18 seconds.

There will need to be a different conversion of ship speed to Atmospheric speeds in mph, but I haven't worked out those factors yet. They should yield a time from orbit to landing that seems realistic and consistent with what appears likely on sci-fi and comparable to NASA figures. They should also be better than our real life fighters today.

================

SENSORS

Now to deal with the issues presented by sensor ranges.

FOCUSED VS BROAD SCANNING

The ranges in hexes given in the book (and all combat sensor actions) are for highly focused, rapid penetrating scans on small targets. Focused Scanning operates at shorter ranges and is commonly more useful in combat. Since average terrestrial planets have atmospheres 12 hexes (60 miles) deep, long range sensors can do focused scans of objects (landed ships, buildings, etc) on the surface from low orbit. Medium range sensors might be able to do a focused scan of high altitude areas, or on planets with unusually shallow atmospheres, where orbits can be lower. Otherwise, ships will have to go into atmosphere to get focused scans of individual objects on the surface.
-short: 5 hexes (25 miles)
-medium: 10 hexes (50 miles)
-long: 20 hexes (100 miles)

When set to Broad Scanning, sensors cover much wider and distant areas, and their operation works in terms of minutes rather than rounds (a scan action is one minute). This is what you use to scan a planet's overall conditions, the nature of nebula or other celestial bodies, and detect objects at a distance. Strange or highly detailed or difficult phenomena may take longer to scan fully.

In this mode sensors can tell whether widespread life is on the planet, and whether there are signs of massive technology or habitation. But it cannot get specific details on particular structures on a planet's surface, or detect the presence of specific landed ships. A survey would be needed, which consists of systematic scans of the surface, in low orbit, over a period of 2d6 hours, and then, it would only pick up the presence of a dense object of artificial alloys and power signatures common to ships. Once a location is known, Focused Scanning (as above) may then be able to get detailed information on the ship or structure using the standard combat Scientist Actions, assuming range can reach.

When it comes to ships in space, they are more noticeable when not on a planet. Broad sensors can only detect the presence of a "ship sized object" - it's size class, as well as its speed and direction - but not composition, type, ship or creature, etc. BUT, to detect ships at range is only possible if someone is standing guard at a sensors station - Computers DC (30-5 per size) to notice.

To find max ranges for sensors in Broad mode, the range rating in hexes should be multiplied by 5,000 to get miles:
- short: 25,000 miles
- medium: 50,000 miles
- long: 100,000 miles

Depending on sensor range and the speed of the object, those that are closing on your location will often grant you a few hours advance notice (distance in miles / speed in mph = time in hours). This, provided your sensor operator managed to detect them.

Picturing General Sensor Coverage:

So, consider a circular (spherical really) area with a radius from the planet, up to medium orbit (about 22,000 miles). Short range sensors cover about 1/4 of that area. There are plenty of places a ship could be in medium orbit with you and not be in range. Medium range sensors can cover about half of that area. And long range sensors cover all of the area and beyond. If a ship is anywhere in medium or lower orbit, or some places in far orbit, it will be within range of a long range sensor (though ships within range could always be blocked by LOS from the planet). This could present interesting situations where one ship with long range sensors can see another ship in planetary orbit, but that ship is unaware due to its medium or short range sensors.

As for moons, they can vary widely in their distance to planets, but a typical moon of a terrestrial planet will be about 230,000 miles away. That will mean that to know if something is around a planet's moon, one will need to leave orbit and travel over into that direction, even with long range sensors. At sublight, that means it would take hours, so you may as well Drift travel to the moon, which should be very quick (1d6 minutes?). So, that basically means you should treat the moons of a planet as a separate location than "at the planet".

Thanks much. I really do suspect what they were trying to do is:

- Get rid of cumbersome concentration rolls
- But then spellcasters get spells ruined too easily
- So to fix it we'll make this distinction between offensive/defensive prepared actions.

But I don't think they've realized yet that this breaks the entire purpose of prepared actions: watch for something and do x if they try to make a move (a privilege I've earned by winning initiative).

Like you said, you can have an overt "drop it or else" situation. Or, you could be watching from a distance, waiting for someone to run between two pillars and shoot them when they go for it.

See - that was another important function of the prepared action: to get around the weird quantized nature of turn-based combat. Otherwise, I can run between two pillars on my turn, exposing myself and yet you can't shoot me as I pass because 'it's not your turn'.

I don't think they knew how profound altering prepared actions was. The solution I'm presenting here accomplishes their aim to let spellcasters get off their 1-action spells and still maintains the integrity of prepped actions.

It also makes a spellcaster think, well I better be quick on the draw and have incentive to add to initiative just like anyone else.

Here's what I'm thinking of implementing in my game:

1) ALL prepped actions go off just before their trigger (as they traditionally have before PF).
2) If the trigger was a spell being cast and it has a cast time of 1 action, then it still goes off, but AFTER the prepped action (assuming the caster is not dropped). If the casting time is longer than 1 action, it is interrupted and fails.

Now THAT would put 1-action spells in the same boat with guns without ruining prepped actions. Spellcasters would not be interrupted constantly, but the function of prepped actions is preserved. Like a gunman I'm holding a prepped action on, telling him to 'drop it', he can still shoot (or cast) but only if he survives my prepped action first.

What do you think?

Tiberius1701 wrote:

I want plenty of civilian ships like cargo haulers, mining ships, research ships, cruise ships, repair tugs, etc. I also want internal maps with them all. And some additional component options.

You would need to expand the starship rules for that as currently civilian ships would be no match for the PCs autoleveling starship (and also wouldn't stay civilian for long if the get their hands on one) and there is no non combat use for starships.

So in the end you are, at best, left with some deck plans to use during adventuring and thats not what most people who buy a starship book are looking for.

The point isn't for them to be a 'match' for anything, and not to be for PCs to use. Being in a complete world means you're going to need civilian ships for cases like escort or protection missions, random encounters (if the players want to be pirates), finding them adrift (deck plans), and more. The whole world isn't just one big battle arena.

I always say, the main thing is it's storytelling. Just imagine you are your character and you're in that situation, and describe what you want to do. The GM will tell you what mechanics that equates to and what to roll.

Over time, you can help him/her more as you become familiar with your own powers and how they work. Just focus on what you can do at your level and don't try to take it all in at once :)

Have fun!

Starfinder has a lot of unanswered questions. The cause of the gap, the fate of Golarion, and (especially) the *many* numerous lesser mysteries about races and ruins throughout the Pact Worlds.

It is clear the authors intend these to be imagination-inducing kickoffs for GMs to build adventures around and have players discover these answers.

BUT...

It is also the case, that we know Paizo will be releasing adventures and other materials that may provide eventual answers to these. So what do we do?

It seems like we are going to unavoidably have our individual games end up in alternate canons, and may not be able to use some materials that come out.

For that reason, it kind of makes me want to build storylines about completely different worlds and mysteries and leave the mysteries in the books alone entirely. But that seems like I'm missing out on a lot of good opportunities.

How do you handle this and how does Paizo say we should handle this?

Thanks :)

I have been making a spreadsheet of all the corporations mentioned in Starfinder so far, but I don't have all the products yet. I've mainly used a combination of the Wiki, and scouring the books I do have (which presented more than even the Wiki mentions). If you know of any others, please feel free to let me know thanks!

Automatrix Robotics
Exemplar-23
EvoTech
Iratha Incorporated
Life Innovations
NatuReal Compounds, Ltd.
Sopeth Corporation
AbadarCorp
Azlantech
Idari Corporation
Mum's Pie Co.
Horizon Events
Astral Extractions
Fireside Foundry
Freugan Salvage Company
Hardscrabble Collective
Jupiter Mining Corporation
Kerensky Aerospace Corporation
Ulrikka Clanholdings
ATech
Blackwind Engineering
Blood Mountain Clans
Compiler Enterprises
Death's Head
Hivonyx Industries
Kevolari Collective
Norikama
Ringworks Industries
Sanjaval Spaceflight Systems
Starhive
Thaumtech Unlimited
UIE (anyone know what this stands for?)
Vanguard Craftworks
Vindicas
Arioch-Oyadae
Macrosoft
Magnari Pieceworks
Wey-Yu Corporation
Aspis Consortium
T.P. Industries
The Tetrad
Terminator
Arabani Arms, Limited
Brortrav Ordinance Factories
Ereus Teletech
Ichihara Holdings
Karbide-Machines
Lethal Innovations
Multifold Industries
Snowgarden Productions
VitariTech Industries
Zeizerer Munitions