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plaidwandering wrote:

A pre-requisite doesn't change the text of the actual hex.

Look at what happens, feat let's you choose a spirit each day, you choose lore, you choose arcane enlightment from among lore's hexes

now you can choose a number of spells equal to CHA mod and add it to your Shaman list of spells you can prepare

that doesn't help a witch one bit

it requires houserule to function for a witch(or errata, or faq, both quite unlikely)

Yeah, the feat allows you to replace the word "shaman" by "witch" the same way it allows you to replace wisdom by int for the DC of the hex you chose. Otherwise the feat is totally useless for a witch. All spirit hexes use the word "shaman" in their description. You have to use logic sometime...


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Shifty wrote:

So I had this 'concept' (roleplaying wise) of a Witch that was more a seductress type, and figured this meant a good investment into CHA.

Mechanically though, this doesn't go so well, as Dip/Bluff are out in the cold a tad.

Any reason to take a good CHA as a Witch, or am I just lumbering myself with a 'Good in concept, bad in actuality' character?

There is now a good reason to boost CHA for a witch. It comes from the Advanced class guide.

Feat:

Spirit Talker

By forging a temporary bond with a spirit, you gain access to an unfamiliar hex.

Prerequisites: Hex class feature; shaman level 6th or witch level 6th.

Benefit: Once per day, you can spend 10 minutes communing with a shaman spirit of your choice. When you do, you gain the temporary use of one hex from its list of hexes. This hex is added to your list of available hexes for the next 24 hours.

This feat gives you an access to this hex:

Arcane Enlightenment (Su): The shaman's native intelligence grants her the ability to tap into arcane lore. The shaman can add a number of spells from the sorcerer/wizard spell list equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 1) to the list of shaman spells she can prepare. To cast these spells she must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell's level, but the saving throw DCs of these spells are based on her Wisdom rather than Intelligence. When she casts these spells, they are treated as divine rather than arcane. Each time the shaman gains a level after taking this hex, she can choose to replace one of these spells for a new spell on the wizard/sorcerer spell list.

Now because INT is our main stat this give witches access to any spell form the wizard list and the number of spell we can chose is equal to our CHA mod. This is just amazing!!! So many spell to chose from...


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Murdock Mudeater wrote:
The big notable feature on the vermin companions is that until you increase their intelligence to 1, they are unable to learn any tricks.

This is not true. They can learn tricks, they just do not get the one regular AC get from their Int (3 per point). From Ultimate magic, in the druid section where they 1st described vermin companions:

Mindless: Vermin companions have no Intelligence score and possess the mindless trait. In spite of this, vermin companions may learn one trick, plus additional bonus tricks.


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joeyfixit wrote:


My most paperwork-heavy class so far has been Alchemist, and that includes a shapeshifting, summon-happy Druid with an AC. The amount of flux that a fifth-level bomb chucker with a familiar undergoes to practically all of his stats on a constant basis will probably outweigh the stuff you have to keep track of with a Medium; time will tell.

But the alchemist has a regular spell list with some new mechanics. And the other classes from the same book were more simple.

This is the first version of the classes and most of them can be reworked to achieve the same goal without all the unecessary complexity. At the moment the whole book feels like it is not written by the same staff that did the rest of the PRD. It's like the work of less experienced writers...

Kinetics: We already have so many blast spell available. Why not use a list of the blasts already available and add the mechanics to modify them.

Medium: It's a good concept when you think about it. But a solution needs to be found to streamline all this a little. It's already long with 18 spirits but with 54, seriously?

Mesmerist: This should be the standard model for the other classes. Regular spells list with added unique and interesting tricks. Would not mind having one of them at my table at all.

Occultist: It's a good idea, a class that works around magical items. It has a regular spell list with added tricks. A lot of tricks need to be reworked so we can read and understand them faster. Here the problem is really the amount of text for each ability.

Psychic: Problem with this class is not complexity. Outside of the name it just doesnt feel like something new. I think if there was one class to be redesigned as melee it could be this one. Make it like a jedi...

Spiritualist: Not sure about this class. It feels a lot like a summoner but the description is somehow painful to read. Again here some work needs to be done to streamline everything.


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One complain i see a lot is the lack of a melee class in the book. A shapeshifting focused class has been requested for a long time now. It would fit the occult theme perfectly...

Full BAB, beast shape ability similar to druids at lower lvl and new magical beast shape at later lvl. Ability to shift frequently and stay in a form as long as desired. Maybe a penalty if you shift too much or stay in the same form for too long. No spell. Would make a more simple class to understand and play since all classes of the book at the moment are quite complexes.


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Heladriell wrote:
In defense of the kineticist, the number of pages is the result of wild talents, that fill a niche similar to spells. If you count the caster's pages as the sum of their class features and spells it will be a higher number in the core book.

Thats part of the problem. If the book was meant as a stand alone product/game it would be perfect. But we already have a lot of stuff to consider and understand when playing the game. So far most classes that were added were using a list existing spells. Adding a list of new "spells" with a gazillion ways to modify them is too much.

Each classe of the book brings completly different and complex new mechanics. For GMs this means a lot of stuff to learn and be comfortable with when playing. If the game is continually interrupted because we have to go look in the book how something works, it looses momentum.

My suggestion would be to bring a new set of rules for let say "kinetic" or "occult" powers and build all classes around variations from these rules.

Another thing that bugs me is the total lack of melee classes. Melee characters tends to be less complex to build and understand. Adding 1 or 2 might help to alleviate the problem. Maybe a character with a one handed weapon that use "the force" to create shields/armor, to do combat maneuvers, to levitate, etc...?


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Jadeite wrote:
Judgement grants a sacred bonus which is pretty rare, while animal focus gives you an enhancement bonus, so it won't stack with stat boosters.

Darkvision, Perception, Swim/jump/climb, Evasion, Stealth, +atk and def for attacks of opportunity, Speed, Scent. You can still use all those buffs. Plus your gear might not boost dx/con and str. You might need dex only once in a wile when you shoot a bow. You might need con to help your fort saves vs a spider... The ability is just as flexible as judgment but may be used way more often.


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shroudb wrote:


the ability is written as such:

Animal Focus (Su)

At 4th level, a sacred huntsmaster can take on the aspects of an animal as a swift action. This ability works as the hunter's animal focus class feature, with her inquisitor level serving as her hunter level.

This ability replaces later iterations of the judgment ability.

nowhere it is implied that you can also grant the animal focus to your AC. I run with it as such till now.

The text says it works like the hunter ability. If it wouldnt include the AC it would be worded " This ability works as the hunter's animal focus class feature, except it only affects the inquisitor..."

As you said the upgrade you get later on include your AC, which suggest a misprint. The book is poorly edited, there is so many things that make it feels like it did not get enough review before final print.

For example the Devine Hunter archetype for the hunter state that he does not gain a second companion if he selects the animal domain. The same thing is not writen for the Sacred Huntsmaster. So by RAW he can get 2 AC and with boon companion they would both be at his own lvl. It is probably not the RAI...