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I'm thinking about combining my Aldori Duelist with the Gladiator archetype and going into performance combat using the Performance Combatant Feat. I think I have my head wrapped around the idea of the performance checks, but what about the Victory Points? I can't find ANY thread about VPs, so here's my understanding so far:

You normally get VPs from making a successful DC 20 performance combatant check when the crowd is helpful. You can use spend a VP at any time without an action during a performance combat to auto-succeed at a performance combat check while the crowd is not helpful, or you can spend a VP to get the opportunity to make a performance combat check without a trigger, or you can spend a VP to make an opponent reroll their performance combat check.

The Gladiator archetype at 2nd level says this:

At 2nd level, when a gladiator begins a performance combat, he always starts with at least 1 victory point. If he already has victory points, he gains 1 extra victory point. At 10th level, the gladiator starts out with at least 2 victory points. If he already has victory points, he gains 2 extra victory points.

Outside of performance combat, is this ability useless in that VPs are never gained or used outside of performance combat? Or do you get a VP everytime you enter any combat with the Performance Combatant Feat since you basically treat every Combat as a Performance Combat? Being able to have 1 VP per combat to spend on auto suceeding a performance combat check to gain the effects of a feat or to make that performance comabt check without a trigger would be pretty cool. Without a crowd to be helpful you'd be unable to ever gain anymore VPs during that combat, but upon entering a new combat you would gain 1. However if unused, they could technically stack if you enter another combat and then gain 1 VP.

I believe the correct way of reading into this is that the Performance Combatant Feat simply only allows you to gain the benefits of a performance feat if you succeed on a performance combat check triggered from one of the listed triggers in Performance Combat and that regular combat does not count as Performance Combat so you do not gain nor can you use Victroy Points. Am correct in thinking this?

Helaman, Aldori Swordlords are definitely feat intensive, which is exactly why its a Fighter archetype so you can focus on getting the most feats as fast as possible. I make a lot random builds for fun so I'm really familiar with taking a level or two in another class just for feat or an ability to maximize the build. However I've come to learn that I think its more of a necesary evil to do without an optimized build for the sake of a well-developed character who makes sense. A fighter that randomly takes a level or two in magus or monk and then goes back to being a fighter is a bit unorthodox and hard to explain in your backstory. Most characters I have made in the past are either optimized builds with little to no personality and no flavor as far as backstory or role playing, or they are either a character with a fun story and lots of role playing capacity, but not an effective build at all. I believe that creating a fun campaign that you can really enjoy needs a healthy balance between the story aspects of the game and the mechanics. A character who needs to do nothing more than walk into a room and swing a stick with little fear of death is a shallow, monotonous, and boring character to play. A game is no fun without a challenge so a build that has weaknesses and isn't optimized to its fullest potential better represents a real character who has to play to their strengths and know their weaknesses. So like I said before, I think an Aldori Duelist probably isn't the biggest and strognest Fighter build you can make, but if done right, it can make for a excellent and flavorful character with a great backstory and role palying potential who won't suffer severely in combat. Playing a duelist is just a different way to play. Every swing a Duelist makes isn't a swing to injure, but it might be a swing to feint, a swing to trip, a swing to block or an attempt to disarm. A duelist bides his time in a fight with clever swordplay waiting for the right opportunity to land a hit. So no, they're no the same as the armor toteing, bastard sword wielding, monster cleaving Fighter that we're used to, but they can be just as fun or more so if done right.

To GeraintElberion, Its true that he may be less effective againts monsters and more effective in an urban campaign, but every character has the weaker points. And I wasn't sure how old the prestige class was either, last time I looked at Aldori Duelists I don't think I knew about them either, but they definitely have something to add to the mix. :)

To Seranov, I will also be role playing my Aldori Duelist with a fake english accent and an overly cocky attitude which I very much look forward to :P As far as delivering, it really depends on how you choose to use them in combat. I will be using a majority of combat maneuvers when I fight since as far as damage output they are lacking as opposed to other fighters, but that doesn't make him any less fun to play, its jsut a different way to play :) Personally I hate the complications of Magic but was getting bored of the simplicities and repetitiveness of running up and hitting the bad guys with a stick over and over, and besides a monk, its hard for any character to be any good at combat maneuvers unless you make them a one trick pony.

On that note, to Byrdology, if played right, I don't think an Aldori Duelist is a oen trick pony at all. All the other "optimized" builds of fighters or other classes who focus on doing one thing the best as they can such as high AC, high Attack rolls, or maximum damage output most oftenly are the REAL one trick ponies to me. Frankly I think being able to use trips, feints, disarms, and still have a good AC and attack rolls is about as good as it can get for a fighter with versatility.

I've been looking through these forums for some advice on making an Aldori Duelist only to find that just about EVERYONE hates them and thinks they are cool but completely underpowered. Are they really as bad as everyone says they are?

Personally, I don't think so.

I keep hearing people referring to them in terms of DPS and comparing them to other fighter builds and how good their stats and how much damage they swing for, but I think that thinking of an Aldori Duelist in that way does it a major disservice because that is NOT the kind of build it is.

I've also heard of people trying to combine it with levels of monk and style feats and other classes,thia really ruins the flavor and the point of the Aldori Duelist. Basically I think we're all looking at this guy wrong. He's not really meant as a block/counter attacker. If you read the rules for an official Duel (what these guys are supposed to focus on) anyone can parry an attack as an immediate action, so this isn't exactly something that needs to be highlighted in the class. So besides that, what else does it really mean to be a master of dueling?

Combat maneuvers.

Aldori Duelists and associated traits and feats all share a common theme and that is combat maneuvers. Specifically those that use Combat Expertise as prerequisite (Trip, Disarm, and Feint). Aldori Duelists get the ability to deal their weapon damage upon a successful disarm. If thats not the abiltiy of someone who's supposed to focus at least a little bit on combat maneuvers like Disarm, I don't know what is.

There are also 3 traits that have to do with these comabt maneuvers as well that pertain to Aldori Duelists:

The Sword Scion Campaign trait (an obvious must-have) gives you an Aldori Dueling Sword straight off, a +1 bonus to attacks with it, AND a +1 Bonus to Combat Maneuver checks with it (which unless I'm mistaken stacks with the +1 to attacks for a total of +2 to combat maneuvers?) not too mention some wonderful flavor for your backstory.

Blade Bravado gives you a +1 to Bluff (to help you feint) and a +1 to Acrobatics (to help you tumble) "When wielding a one-handed weapon and nothing in your off hand" (the same thing it says that you need to do to get any of the benefits of the Aldori Duelist Fighter Archetype). And it just flat out says in the description that you grew up in a dueling academy (more backstory flavor!)

Dueling Cloak Adept gives you a +2 bonus to Bluff to feint when speciffically using an Aldori Dueling Sword and when you feint successfully you get a +1 bonus to AC.

Some other things I've heard people saying about the Aldori Duelist is about the Exotic Weapon Proficiency requirement in order to use Weapon Finesse. because of this, people have gotten the idea that in order to avoid this you should just use it as a martial weapon and focus on your Strength instead of Dexterity, which I beleive is, again, wrong.

First off, I TOTALLY disagree with the fact that you are not exotically proficient with the ONLY sword that he have EVER used and WILL ever use. The Unarmed Fighter Archetype gains all the weapon proficiencies of a monk (including the exotic ones) even though he's supposed to specialize in being UNARMED, but the Aldori Duelist can't have his one and only sword? Shenanigans. So consult your GM about this injustice, like mine, he was more than happy to give it to me.

That being said, Aldori Duelist's are Dexterity heavy characters. Weapon Finesse is a must have. And because of Weapon Finesse you can use your Dex for Combat Maneuvers as well like Improved Trip, Disarm, and Feint, so you should be taking these. They have a prerequisite of Combat Expertise (which I've never been a big fan of but sacrificing accuracy to avoid getting hurtis very duelist-like). There aren't any bonuses for Tripping with this build, but your standard CMB will be pretty high anyway.

Aldori Dueling Mastery is the feat that EVERY Aldori Duelist should strive to get, however if you want to only take 5 levels in Fighter, you can take the Aldory Swordlord Prestige Class which gives this feat to you first level as WELL as teh ability to use your Dex score for Damage as well as attack rolls like the Agile magic weapon ability. This way you don't have to take Quick Draw as a prerequisite, but you will still need Weapon Focus(Aldori Dueling Sword) and the exotic proficiency (if your GM didnt let you have it) as well as to take the class you'll need Dazzling Display. Dazzling Display is another one of my not-so-favorite feats, but when you get a bonus for it 2nd level of Aldori Swordlord it's not half bad. Besides, you should be pretty good at intimidating since you should have decent Charisma for Bluff for Feinting.

I hope that you all will take some of this into consideration. Aldori Duelist's are duelists, not barbarians. They are Dex fighters who use their skills to fight smart and swiftly. To play one you need to use your head, use strategy, not just brute force and monk-like counter attacking.

So anyway that's my opinion on the matter. Maybe they still end up falling a bit short of fighters as far of power, or in combat maneuvers compared to a monk, but I have yet to find another class that combines swordplay and the use of combat maneuvers so effectively. It's truly a different style of play when you're not focused on trying to beat the bejesus out of you enemy, so much as elegantly feint, disarm, and trip your way past his attacks to land a blow.