well if we are going to mention scrolls...
You KNOW we HAVE to mention potions and wands too. :P
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master_marshmallow Thats exactly as I had initially understood it to stand. Unless I added the proper descriptor to the spell, the spell would be utterly useless, hence the reasoning. Thanks nonetheless for the 2 cents master!
Cakeking, When Creating any magic item it USUALLY benefits you to make it at the lowest possible CL. The reason stated that usually is the case is because of many other things that can happen. 1. The higher the CL of the item, the harder the DC of a dispel magic spell being successful against it. 2. Also, if the item in question is going to cast say the spell Fly, 3 times per day then the higher the caster level of the item the longer the Fly spell can last. Spell dependent Items will have a longer duration according to the caster level. These are the two most common reasons why it is that you WANT to use a higher Caster Level. If you stick to the lowest caster level possible, this will usually result in the item being obtained as cheaply as possible.
Hendelbolaf
Dasrak,
Dasrak, Im not certain that is being understood as RAI. The devs, i think, created that as a way to be able to copy your own spellbook at a faster rate, so you wouldnt have to be left out in the dark if something happened. Also any wizard worth his weight knows how precious their spellbook is, and a prepared wizard as most wizards are, would make a copy. That being said the devs, I think, where trying to ease that process expecially for heavy handed DMs, that really want to screw unprepared PCs.
Great catch Haraldklak!
Also yes Freezing is a 3rd party meta-magic feat that my GM has allowed, although any 3rd party material is limited, and with good reason i might add, my elven wizard is a cold based caster, although I have yet to show it... >_>. Seriously that was my intent when I first made the caster, and instead I've done anything but cast cold spells. Pathfinder really seriously has next to no cold descriptor spells. :(
Anyone else that can chime in as far as to whether or not I can memorize and a non cold spell with rime before adding the cold descriptor it after the fact?
If im not mistaken, its take 20 that the chance of failure applies to rickmeister.
Hi, I am a 10th level wizard. I have a Lesser(only 3rd level spells or lower)Rod of Metamagic Freezing spell. I also have the Rime Metamagic feat. Can I Memorize a Rime Magic Missle? The Freezing metamagic feat would make it have the Cold descriptor upon casting it, but im not certain if im allowed to memorize magic missle (a force spell descriptor) with Rime Metamagic, in the first place due to the fact that Magic missle doesnt have the cold descriptor originally.
Unless someone else has another understanding of this, from the research that I've done, this is how it stands as of right now. To Learn a Spell from a spellbook, and copy it into your own. First - You must read the spell, which requires a Spellcraft check (DC 20 + the spell's level). This lets you "decipher" what you are reading. Second - You must then spend 1 hour studying how the spell functions. At the end of the hour you make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell's level). Being successful on this check, allows you to now write the spell into your book Third - You now follow the chart on page 219. You then spend 1 hour per spell level to write the spells, into your spellbook. The stipulation is if and only if you are replicating your own spellbook, for purposes of safety or backup, THEN and only THEN are BOTH the time requirement, and cost per page are halved. If i am mistaken or it is meant to be interpreted in some other way, please clarify with text sourcing your reasoning. Otherwise this seems to be the way its supposed to be done. Thanks to all who responded to this post your help is greatly appreciated :)
but... that still doesnt clarify how much time it will take, which is my primary concern.
Hey all...
The very last paragraph of that section on page 220 says..
My GM points out the previous paragraphs and says, that does not apply to spells you had no knowledge of previously, hence copying a new spell, even though it may be from another spellbook, is just as exausting and costly, as any other spell. Either way, I'm just looking for some clarity on the subject.
What is the money / time cost of copying another mages spellbook, into my Blessed Book magic spellbook.
The TL;DR
I'm about to begin playing a level 8 conjuration sub-school specialist elven wizard. I have a question. How exactly does the Dimensional Steps spell like ability work? To my understanding it works similiarly to the 5th level Bard spell Bard's Escape, Bard's Escape:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/bard-s-escape
but just want to make sure. Ive seen some post about how it functions similarly to dimension door. Which makes a large difference. Mainly in the fact that everyone must be within a range of touch for me to teleport the group, as opposed to just within line of sight. This is the Dimensional Steps(Sp) ability description. Dimensional Steps(Sp):
At 8th level, you can use this ability to teleport up to 30 feet per wizard level per day as a standard action. This teleportation must be used in 5-foot increments and such movement does not provoke an attack of opportunity. You can bring other willing creatures with you, but you must expend an equal amount of distance for each additional creature brought with you.
Anyone that can clarify this?
Great questions. Just leaving a Dot here for future reference.
^this. Its up to you what you make necessary. If a GM never makes a certain skill or skill component necessary players will never feel the need to have it.
Awesome Post RD.
Umm in rise of the runelords specifically in the players handout at the beginning, their is a character trait, that allows you to learn thassilonian. Read/write, etc... im certain no one thought it'd be a good idea, but well there it is. Always remember you are the gm. You can make anything happen. :)
maybe im missing something obvious here... but what is a <wayanged> ice spears? Does anyone else have any interesting ideas or thoughts to add to this post? Really interested in what I should / could do with this build.
Just a final post. It was noted that there was a Level 1 Spell known as Transfer tattoo. This spell allows for the sale of a magical tattoo. Thus it was concluded that the 30% price reduction restriction was no longer required.
It gets you out of grapples, lets you laugh at locked doors, gives you an extra 5' step... Sorry just so its clear, Shift(su) should not be able to let you laugh at locked doors, unless its locked Glass Doors. In which case, you can probably just break through anyways. If you read the text carefully it specifies...
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"At 1st level, you can teleport to a nearby space as a swift action as if using dimension door. This movement does not provoke an attack of opportunity. You must be able to see the space that you are moving into." Pg. 147 Advanced Players Guide. This being the case everything else Douglas Muir 406 said was in fact correct. It does let you escape a grapple, without doing either an escape artist, or strength check. It also ends your turn once its used. It functions as quoted previously as the spell Dimension Door. As per RAW, and even though everything else about the ability is different from the spell, that one thing stays the same. Specific > General. Also most people house rule that you can take Dimensional Agility with it so your turn continues, but this is a House Rule. Shift is a supernatural ability, that does not provoke AOO, and allows you to take 2 movement actions. Thats what makes it great. Again this is not to sway you towards one decision or another, its just to make sure you dont get the wrong impression Third Mind. I can also make some recommendations, but in the end play the character concept you think you'll enjoy most. I have played the exact Conjuror, and even at low levels where melee usually wreck things while casters should be weaker, I was controlling the field. Its a pretty nasty build, and if you plan right can be extremely rewarding.
Magical Tattoos can absolutely be resold. A first level Bard/Sorcerer/Wizard/Witch spell called Transfer Tattoo allows you to take a magical tattoo off of a corpse or person and transfer it to another person. I brought it up to my GM, and it was decided that the 30% was not necessary, but also that the item restriction price drops were not going to be implemented. So no alignmet restricted items, or class restricted items. This is the new house rule. The reason for this new rule is because we as a group have all items available to us, unless otherwise noted. Weatlh of towns and cities is not calculated, and this is all just to make the game easier on both the GM as well as the players. It would really suck if we couldnt sell our loot because there isnt enough gold in the whole of the town to sell it. Then we wouldn't be able to buy the items we want because theres only a limited amount of items to buy from. So it is what it is. To keep our freedom we will make some sacrifices. :P
Thanks! Still not 100% about some things though. Also interesting question that came up. What if im making a belt of giants strength. And lets say im a caster class that cannot learn bull's strength. To make the item do i still need the spell available? Or do i just arbitrarily increase the DC by 5? Also what if i have say a potion of bulls strength. Does the DC stay the same now? Or does it still go up 5 because I didnt have the spell memorized to cast. These are in addition to the questions ive asked thus far. Thanks again to all contributors! :)
I'm going to assume you're the GM of the campaign, and say i know what its like. :) As a player though you just get crazy ideas, that just keep you up late at night, and as not to bombard your GM with 1000 questions you post and hope your posts gets enough attention just to get some straight answers even if some are just "this is how I interpret the text as" answers. Different Points of view and all of that. Any who i look forward to your post about the rest of it not including the homebrew rule, as well as that of anyone else that reads this post. :)
I swear gauss you are a human Wiki of pathfinder. I wonder what playing at a table with you is like at times. :P Well s&$$ i was about to ask if it applies to magical tattoos, and saw target. You sir are totally right. Well I'll make sure to bring it up on our next session. Truth be told we applied it because we didnt want item discount cheese. Like alignment restriction + class restriction = 60% discount. Thats neither here nor there. That being said does the math work out for everything else correctly?
First let me say Thanks to everyone that contributes to this thread.
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Our table gives a 30% discount to Inscribe Magical Tattoo due to the nature of it being restriced,i.e. not allowed to be resold, as opposed to for example ioun stones. Here is the thread which helped in coming to this conclusion. http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p58g?Inscribe-Magical-Tattoo-and-other-Item#1 Here are threads of people discussing the "How To" on crafting magic rods.
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http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lzjk?Craft-Rod#1 Here is also a whole thread on Crafting magic items without prereqs. Its kind of long. http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lzbu&page=7?Ignoring-Magic-Item-Prereqs#33 8 Heres a thread that talks about calculating the DC's of Magic Items, again centered on Rods.
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The basic explanation is that sometimes items have different levels of powers, according to the CL that you create the item, which isnt always the lowest, determines the CL of the item. http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lqmb?Questions-about-Metamagic-Rods#4 So you can in fact lower the CL so long as it is high enough to cast in the first place. For example. :
I can cast Mage armor as a Caster Level 1, and thus mage armor will only last me 1 hour. Alternatively, I can cast Mage armor at my currrent CL of 6, and have it last 6 hours. Now lets say i have a spell that i wouldnt be able to cast until level 3, such as Invisiblity. Invis lowest caster level is set at 3, it cannot go any lower than that. It can on the other hand be cast at a higher one, allowing the spell to last a longer duration than if cast at a CL of 3.
Now you may ask why is it important whether or not I cast invis as CL 3 or CL 6. Two factors. :
1. If the DC is my main concern, then I can create the item at a lower CL, to be able to lower the DC. 2. If the CL is my main concern, then I can create the item as a higher CL to make it harder for a dispel magic check to suppress the item. The lower the CL of an item, the easier it is for Dispel Magic to suppress the effects for x number of rounds. This all comes to the final Tattoo. So lets say for arguments sake that the first tattoo I will make is one that mimics a metamagic rod. Similar to that of Caster's Tattoo. Heres the link :
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/r-z/tatto o-caster-s So the Tattoo is a tattoo of the metamagic feat Freezing.
:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/3rd-party-feats/rite-publishing/metamagic-fea ts---3rd-party---rite-publishing/freezing-spell-metamagic http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/merciful-spell-metamagic http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/rods/metamagic-rods/metamagic-merciful
I want to be able to cast 3rd level or lower spells with the freezing metamagic feat, mainly because all I have access to currently are 3rd level spells, so I only need the lesser version of the tattoo. The cost of a lesser merciful magical rod is 750g to make. This is already at cost. Sold at market value would be 1500g *HOUSE RULE*
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The cost of the item is -30% for 'restricted to user only'. So price at cost to make is 525 gold. Multiply the cost by 2 for it being Slotless, and the total cost of the item is 1050.
This is what is needed to calculate the DC of the item. This text is quoted from the d20pfsrd website. :
1) "At the end of this process, the spellcaster must make a single skill check (usually Spellcraft, but sometimes another skill) to finish the item." 2) "The DC to create a magic item is 5 + the caster level for the item. Failing this check means that the item does not function and the materials and time are wasted. Failing this check by 5 or more results in a cursed item." 3) "Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by 5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting its prerequisites.
*ALSO NOTE*
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The Tattoo is a Tattoo of "Lesser" Freezing. Only allowing it to apply to 3rd level spells or lower. So the lowest CL to be able to make this tattoo is when the particular caster (in this case me the elven wizard) reaches the use of third level spells, which was my 5th caster level. So the DC is as follows. Spoiler:
5+Caster level of the item. I want the CL to be set to 5 ( the lowest CL that I can create the Item, to be able to increase the odds of creating the item without failing the final check.) So far the DC is 10 total. I do not have the Freezing Metamagic Feat, so to be able to make the tattoo, i would then increase my DC by 5, totaling my DC to 15 Final Cost to make tattoo is 1050g, it will take 2 days of work at 8 hours a day to craft. The formula is 1000g/day of work. I want to accelerate this so I Increase my DC by another 5. This is to be able to make it faster, so that I can craft it while everyone sleeps thusly not interrupting the partys adventuring. Final Cost of tattoo is 1050g, with 2 days of work at 4 hours per day, with a final DC of 20. Does my math check out as far as my DC and amount of time into the item go? Is the item in fact craftable at all? Am I completely wrong? Please post to elaborate Alternatively
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Should I have a whole day to dedicated to crafting I can reduce the time to 1 day with 8 hours of accelerated work. If time is not a factor, I can decrease the accelaration making the DC drop by 5, and making the tattoo easier as a whole to make.
Basically what im asking is...
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Can I Craft a level 0 metamagic feat Tattoo? How about without having the apporpriate metamagic feat? Is it done by increasing the DC? If the cost of the Item is 1050g Then how long will it take? Are there ways of increasing the speed without the use of hedge magician trait, or peing able to cast planar travel spells?
Thanks. I knew there was a piece of the puzzle missing, but would being able to rest in only 2 four hour blocks be ok? sounds like a case for fatigue if done every night. Totally agree btw, Lesser Rod of extend spell, is pretty much a requirement.
Whelp because making choices so much easier... Go wizard 100%. :) or to be honest the one you want to play more. I currently have an alchemist my group, and I myself am playing a wizard. Hes more a ragechemist though so I cant say the same for you, but out of combat his skills are meh. As a wizard you almost always have something to contribute to a situation... even if its only a foot in the mouth because you dumped charisma. :P Teleportaion sub-school is my favorite because goodbye grapple wrecking your day, although my opposing schools were necromancy and enchantment. Opposition research at later levels can get you the other back. You have double spot checks and the like due to your familiar, or you have a really nice enhanced item, or even make him a spellbinder for added flavor / fun. It just seems with metamagic, and casters in general, there are just so many different feats, skills, and just all around options you have that I dont feel many other classes get. Thats just my 2 cents. At the end of the day pick the one you think you'll role-play the most, and thusly enjoy the most. :)
gauss you keep on bringing up ring of sustenance + Rope trick for early levels. My question to you is how does rope trick help in early levels when it only lasts the 1/hour per caster level. To "rest" ,and craft would take a minimum of 6 hours, and thats with accelerated crafting. Mind you thats only you resting... unless the entire party sports a ring of sustenance as well in which case sure it works... level 6. Am I missing something blatent here? Please elaborate for me, I'm actually really kind of confused.
It sounds like a crazy good concept, but is it manageable? Sounds similar almost to neverwinter nights, and a lot of what it was trying to achieve, by creating dungeon editting software for Dungeon masters. Either way sounds like almost any Dnd/ RPG gamers dream. :)
Alright, so here are the final results as per our own house rule in case anyone stumbles across this thread, that has the Inscribe magical Tattoo feat. This is how it is originally.
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Item 1 Market Price is 1000g, and takes a slot. Item 3(tattoo) Market Price is 2000g, and is slotless. Item 2 Market Price is 2000g, and is slotless. Item 1s Cost to Craft is 500g.
Item 1, and 2 can both be sold at a market value of half their market price. Item 3 cannot be resold after initial application. By this logic, the cost to craft an Ioun Stone, and a Magical Tattoo is the same. An Ioun stone can be resold. Tattoos cannot be resold after application. Item 3 (tattoo) is slotless, but cannot be resold once applied. Hence, tattoo has restricted use*, that cannot be stacked with other restrictions, such as Class or Alignment restrictions, but can be still be stacked with traits as well as skill use restrictions. *Just like class, and alignments are considered restrictions Inscribed Magical Tattoo has the restriction that encompasses the bearer of the tattoo, as the sole user of the tattoo. Thus resulting in a 30% discount. So adding a magical tattoo to prices comes too...
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Item 1 Market Price is 1000g and takes a slot Item 3 Market Price is 1000g -30% = 700g x 2 for slotless = 1400g. Item 2 Market Price is 2000g and is slotless. The exception to the price restriction reduction. :
** The Price for restricted tattoos, does not alter the original price of a Spell Tattoo. It is clearly written "A spell tattoo has a market price four times as much as an equivalent scroll." Pricing for Spell Tattoos are thus calculated as a scroll of equal caster level, and spell level multiplied by four. Alignment/Class/Tattoo Restrictions do not apply. Again this is the final decision we came to on this particular Item Creation Feat, and all items that are to be created must still be under GM approval, and following all other guidelines for Magic Item Creation. Our table believes this is further in line with RAI, not necessarily RAW, due to the cheese that can be applied if one where in fact allowed an item at over 60% discount from market value. If anyone has any further questions or contributions feel free to post I will respond as promptly as possible. Thanks again to all who contriubted to this thread.
Well I'm an asshat for not checking my math. It was late and I was tired, but still no excuse... and now its so long ago I cant edit it :/
+1=2000gp
Anyways back to the topic at hand. From the general concensus Im reading that you cannot apply any restrictions, other than say requres a skill to use, which only gives a 10% discount, to the tattoos? That seems a rather harsh cost. Hers my reasoning as to why. :
Considering the tattoo can in fact be destroyed /dispeled, and unlike any wondrous items in the game you CANNOT sell it. This is a big one for me, mainly because its how we are able to cycle through some of our items. Being able to sell an item we had previously for half the market cost is what allows our combined WBL to stay up. The fact that you are now changing for the magic tattoo, I'd say wheres the benefit other than being slotless? For that pick up an ioun stone, and call it a day. You are all correct that RAI and RAW, must work in conjuction. Do you all really deem the above accurate? To my knowledge when one option is clearly shined out by an opposing option, its not RAI. An Ioun stone can be destroyed, but it can also be SOLD. Tattoos are a big nope. The thing about the double discount I dont know. :
It feels like cheese, and when I feel cheese there must be something wrong as per RAI. So maybe a single 30% discount for being restricted to the one user, and not being able to be resold? This feels more in line with RAI. I.e. the cost of the item with a slot is still less, and a more viable option for a lower cost campaign, but if you have the gold to spend you can get an "upgraded" version for a price increase. Again, not trying to destroy game balance, but still trying to make my magical tattoos a viable option. You can't really sell tattoos because for every 1000g you need 4 hours of work, if accelerated, making it very impractical to sell in say a city. It just seems my math is wrong somehwere, or maybe I'm using the wrong formula? Can anyone elaborate on this further? Thanks everyone for your posts. Trying to get my head around this. :)
As it says in the subject line, this is about Inscribe Magical Tattoo, and Custom Item Creation. Alright let me start. I am NOT trying to break game balance, if not I would have just chosen a normal Item creation feat. Here's my explanation of it. :
This feat specifies that it is automatically double the cost of the item, although slotless, and can also be damaged. So double whammy for price balance issues. That being said, I am in a low-wealth campaign added to the fact that we have a large group totaling at 6 players. So even though i do not want to effect game balance, I chose an item creation feat so that I would be able to in fact you know create items, and have access to them sooner, or not have to rely on a premade Adventure path to get the gear thats apporpriate to my class. Also many items have a high cost related to it, and also a failed check means the item is lost. That being said, the question about IMT is how do you actually create the tattoos in the most cost efficient manner possible? Firstly
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Alignment restrictions drop the est price of an item by 30%. Add another 10% discount if the item is use related, and you have a high skill choice. I.E. requires a spellcraft check, DC 10 + Spell level if it is emulating a spell effect, if not the effect is wasted for the day. So now we are at a 40% discount from the base item BEFORE the double price, with an appropriate skill use. Awesome! So long as it works like this. I do not know if it doesn't, and please do not bash me if my math or reasoning is off, im just trying to get a feel for how it works, and how to use it best to my advantadge. :) An example of an item I am trying to make :
Cloak of Body and Mind (Slot - "slotless" BUT "drawn on shoulders") Tattoo is drawn with two opposing symbols, one representing "Body" on one shoulder and "Mind" on the other. This tattoo brings balance to the bearers mind, and enchances the bearers body in the form of a +1 to +5 insight bonus on all saving throws (Fortitude, Reflex, and Will). Cost of item with example
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Save bonus (other) = Bonus squared x 2,000 gp. +1^2 x 2000gp = 2000gp x2 = 4000gp +2^2 x 2000gp = 4000gp x2 = 8000gp +3^2 x 2000gp = 16000gp x2 = 32000gp +4^2 x 2000gp = 20000gp x2 = 40000gp +5^2 x 2000gp = 25000gp x2 = 50000gp With the Discount of it being individually restricted, and hence not being able to sell it. +1^2 x 2000gp = 2000gp x 30% discount = 1400gp applying the x2 for being slotless comes out to a total of 2800gp. Still costing more than buying the original item on the market. Please dont critisize the item description to harshly :P I was just trying to give it some flavor. Im getting really into this whole magic ink thing, and really thinking of even it being sentient as in like a field would show the blades of grass actually moving is a pretty cool idea. :)
Yea... Its pretty great. Im not 100% on ice storm though.
Umbranus
Any other spells people? I want to see what everyone else can come up with. :)
I dont know if this has been recommended, but I will say 1 shot wonder short time games would be great. A how do i say "The Big Book of Improv Pathfinder games"! For the busy GM, that didnt have time to read his adventure path, and just needs to entertain his group for a bit. You can start it small and see how it does. Quick and dirty sessions prewritten encounters / skill challenges. Everything from Monsters, traps, riddles, and skill challenges. On that note... I'd really like to see more riddles integrated in adventures. Make some rules that depending on whether your clever enough, smart enough or wise enough to be able to "guess" the answer more accurately. Just a thought. :)
^this is definately a +1, and a big thanks for doing this by the way!
I created a year long campaign from scratch that fought its ways from the wood of chitterwood, stopping along the way to the isle of absalom, a multiple tiered Tower with different planes of existence all the way to Nex / Geb to search for a PCs missing father, a high level gnomish druid that was part of a druidic council and a pathfinder society member, out to heal the world-wound. This involved extensive back-stories from each player, to tie them into one solid group, but it was and still is one of my favorites. The final BBEG being a ressurrected Lich wizard, that captured the PCs father after an extensive battle. When the lich is destroyed, a summoned Final BBEG Balor Demon(whom the Lich had a pact with) comes forth. Party had 3 rounds to figure out how to stop him if not he would finish the PCs, and resurrect the Lich allowing him to continue his nefarious deeds. To finish it a player, had to willingly sacrifice thier "life" to stop the demon. This was via the phlyactery of the lich and involved swapping in the soul of the pc in place of that of the lich. Finishing the game with a player character becoming the Lich, stopping the final destruction of the PCs, and the Pc's father as well as the whole city of absalom... unless the lich player where to turn on his party, and fight them... I <3 Sandbox + twists. :) Not sure if this is what you were looking for or not. if you were looking more for quick and dirty ideas... then Delving into a multi-tiered wizards tower, that traversed multiple planes / places. could be PCs started captured in there and grow slowly as slaves seeking freedom, or as per the usual greedy adventurer, that wishes the archmages treasure horde. Either works really. Could even just be a crazed wizard that issues the challenge to adventures from all of the world to claim a prize so great that no one can help but enter his tower of endless twisted nightmares. Happy RPG Holidays! :D TL;DR
^this +1 thenobledrake
Mplindustries
Well, I will say this Luna_Silvertear, i got lucky. My wife had played DnD previously with a group of her peers in college. After we had been together for awhile, and we were getting a little bored of just going out to eat or to the movies i had the idea of starting another DnD group with alot of the friends I had. I asked if she was interested in the idea. She said yes, so I asked a group of my friends, if i paid and purchased everything and GM'd, if they would all be willing to play. Clear yes rang across the bored... almost had 8 players... that was a nightmare, and exhausting, but it paid off. After a year long campaign she was hooked, and same as mplindustries, "GODMODE", because of a lack of an understanding of certain rules, and assumptions made from previous gaming experiences. We have been playing for about 3 to 4 years now... and the funny part is shes the GM now. :) Enough time / playing, and interest and she read the whole book on her own. Just keep playing! I'd say do more than just yourself and her. So you can share the "Remember when i jumped 45 feet in the air to punch a dragon in the face" stories, yeah... that ACTUALLY happened >_>, with a group of friends, and group itself will also create a common bond. Hope this helps! Cheers mate, and keep on playin! :)
Any other takers? I think i found one that is better but still crunching the numbers... Ice Spears if anyone is interested. :)
No worries, always fun to spitball ideas. Agreed! I find it entertaining especially since this is really the first time I've ever really I personally started opening myself up to the possibility of Metamagic, and everything it can do. As far as Cold Ice Strike is concerned, I worked out something a little crazy in my head... and bear with me it can mess with yours if you arent careful. Cold Ice Strike. Lvl 6 spell slot. Magical Lineage + Rime, still lvl 6. Freeze +0. Spell Perection CIS with Dazing Metamagic. You now target ALL saves. At level 15 this is 15d6 points of damage, as a swift action, that can leave a target at a quarter speed, -3 to attack rolls, -4 to dex, -1 to reflex save ( not including the lowered dex). An added concentration check for CASTYS (INSERTS AMBARBARIAN PLUG HERE). Oh, and wait lets not forget without a turn because they are dazed. All for a level 6 spell slot. The combined metamagic for that should come out to level 9 if I checked my math right. Another spell I found last night, that isnt listed pretty much ANYWHERE and I found in the nether reaches of the D20pfsrd database, Ice Spears. This one is... interesting. It tastes like Toppling Magic Missle... but well hasnt been done by my fellow players. :P Ice Spears is a level 3 conjuration spell (benefits from my SF conj.)with rime, freezing, and magical lineage still level 3, and eligible for lesser rods. Good so far. Damage is mediocre, but then again its only a level 3 spell slot. 2d6 cold +2d6 bludgeoning. Heres the awesome part. :
"The explosive growth can also trip foes. When the spears erupt from the ground, they make a combat maneuver check against any targets that take damage from the spears, with a total bonus equal to your caster level plus your Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma modifier, whichever is highest. Each additional ice spear beyond the first that strikes a single foe grants a +10 bonus to this CMB check. If the check succeeds, the ice spears knock the foe prone. A successful Reflex save halves the damage and prevents the trip attempt." So at a CL of 16, plus an INT mod of +6. You are now looking at a 22 BASE trip attempt. If the creature is Large, you then get 3 more attempts on the same creature... adding it all the ways to a 52 CMB vs, they're CMD check. Short of a tarrasque, or something immune to being tripped, it is now on the floor prone. Add in that its still a level 3 spell, with an avg of 44 pts of damage, albeit not yet swift. Metamagic rod quicken anyone? Spell perfection for... well s&&@ anything you want if they fail one of the 4 reflex saves they are SLOWED, meaning only 1 move or standard action... and they are entangled and you know... Prone. NGL makes my mouth water a bit. Lamontius,
+2 for
:D Demontroll,
I dont think i was clear enough guys, which SPELL would you metamagic with only those metamagic feats. You can add another metamagic assuming its a rod.
As the subject says what do you think is the best choice for a spell with these paramaters. Rime Spell - Failed save = to entangled condition Freezing Spell - Failed save on any damaging spell, but fire = Fort save or gain the Staggered condition, Has to still make Fort save if the spell is a cold one, and they pass the first save. Quicken Spell - Standard action spells become swift actions. Can also use spells that are already only a swift action to bypass this metamagic feat. Dazing Spell - Failed Will save means NO action by the enemy. Top Spell contender for example
Id crunch some more in here, but id like to see what others can do with this challenge! :D Id also like to have some creativity here as well, if you see one metamagic feat that you would add to make your spell OP go ahead, lets assume its a rod. ;)
Taesla
Also MT +1
for
MT As per usual your insight and advice is always welcome. ;) That being said i think there might have been some mix up. I am not going to be casting the cold spell twice in one round. The standard action should be taken up by summons, while my move action should be taken up by spells like you suggested, snapdragon fireworks, flaming sphere, aqueous orb.. etc. any others The Swift action is my concern although I think you have hit the nail on the head with this one. Yes the freezing metamagic feat makes all spells that do not originally have the descriptor (fire) to turn to a cold spell, (although Id like one that already was, to add an additional save to the BBEG). Thusly, allowing for the rime to also entangle said creature. Im searching for lower level spell slots because I do want to be able to use lesser rods to enchance them. Many of the spells you named are good choices, but im not sure I would have them as magical lineage / preferred spell / Spell Perfection. The one that id have to say that looks tastiest there id have to say is the lightning bolt. Its the same tier as fireball, using a reflex save, bad vs. rogues, good for most other things, hits multiple targets while still dishing out decent damage You hit a nail on the head with the fireball. It unfortunately only works if you have the build you stated or are an evoker, in which case spell penetration, and the like become must have feats. While for the conjurer thats his whole gimmick. Battlefield control with mooks that just hit your face or find some other alternatives to your SR. So Spell Penetration takes a backseat to some other more necessary feats. I was also looking at dragons breath. It is no longer a 3rd level spell or under (so much for lesser metamagic rods), but if variety is the spice of life the choice between a conal spell or a line, not to mention the change of types for the JIC, it really is useless fighting with cold spells, now I can change the type that suits me no longer benefit from say rime, and freezing, but maybe heighten it? or some other meta magic effect? Selective? something to that effect. Spell perfection means its always a swift action for me with quickened. makes it a 8th level spell, plus selective for 9th level spell equivalent for still only a 4th level spell slot. Dazing would be great , but I think it becomes past the point that you can no longer quicken it. Thoughts? Again thanks always for contributing in my crazy ass posts! :D
Lamontius
At 1st level, you can teleport to a nearby space as a swift action as if using dimension door. This movement does not provoke an attack of opportunity. You must be able to see the space that you are moving into. You cannot take other creatures with you when you use this ability (except for familiars). You can move 5 feet for every two wizard levels you possess (minimum 5 feet). You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier. Well from a couple of threads that I have read, and I may be in fact wrong from this, most people agree that house-ruling that dimensional agility works for shift is not a problem, but according to RAW that it cannot be applied because it is neither a spell, or a spell-like ability. On the same note it either works as the spell dimension door or it doesnt, if it does not due to RAW, then it is just an example of how the supernatural ability funtions and not the spell itself. Hence not only does dimensional agility feat not apply but neither does the restriction of your turn ending upon its use. This is not written anywhere in the description of Shift(su), but clearly stated in Dimension door. I agree with most, that if you are willing to spend a feat to only allow you to continue your turn uninterrupted while still spending your only swift action to do so that it is not game-breaking and can be a very useful *o poop* button, but also still keeping the prerequisites in mind.
So either it works or it doesnt. Just my two cents for what its worth. :)
Taesla
i guess ill put a TL;DR version see if people are more willing to assist. Leveling Wizard wants to pick a solid ice (descriptor) spell, that is the lowest spell slot possible, and that can be cast as a swift action, and one solid spell ( any descriptor ) that can be used as a move action. If you want more details look at the post above, or just ask, i really dont mind re-typing if i can get some help on this
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