Lini

TheDegraded's page

RPG Superstar 8 Season Marathon Voter, 9 Season Marathon Voter. FullStarFullStarFullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 19 posts (20 including aliases). 215 reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 19 Organized Play characters.


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Lau Bannenberg wrote:
First reaction: I absolutely hate everything but the full-page sheet. They'll be little snippets that get stuffed in a folder big enough to fit an A4 character sheet, so they'll get pressed together, creased folded crumpled messed up. Because that's exactly what happens to small handouts I keep for sentimental reasons.

I couldn't agree more.

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Are you asking me that as a player, GM or person in general?

Player: That would be simple, I'd reconcile it poorly. I would not play that character personally as it will not sit with me for obvious reasons. I'd find it hard to distance myself from my believes. If others play it, no problem.

GM: Right now, which is after reading this thread and thinking about it, I'd see it as something that in the eyes of his god is the right thing to do and as such wouldn't necessarily be an evil act. I'd rule that person could go ahead without penalties. However, I don't believe that was the deity of the paladin this game.

Person: I'd respect their ideology, but I wouldn't agree with it.

Basically, what I've learned is to ask for the paladin's code when a similar situation arises as that can solve the issue much easier, as well as be more open about possible solutions.

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BigNorseWolf wrote:

Keep in mind that the pathfinder morality system has a LG God of executions, so rl aside, this is a bad starting point for the determining the morality allowable in a pathfinder game.

Fair point, though it still illustrates my thoughts about the whole situation and emphasizes that I struggle with it on a personal level. It will, however, make it easier to make a proper call next time, I suppose, so thank you :)

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As the GM the OP is referring to, and apparently the dick and terrible GM in the eyes people I've never met before and who don't even know my side of the story yet, I'd like to share my point of view and point a few things out:

The woman never poisoned the child. The boy was sick, the woman provided medicine in return for having the alchemist make drugs for her. However, she watered down the medicine to the point the child wouldn't die, but also would not recover (quickly). That way she'd have a continuous supply of drugs.

More importantly I never said that tying the evil guy up was not an option. The few times that the players thought about tying her up were met with other players saying 'but then she'll escape so we can't do that'. At which point the player that suggested tying her up would reply with 'you're probably right'. I deliberately stayed out of that conversation as to not influence the final decision you guys would make.

This however meant that the discussion turned into 'we either kill her, or set her free'. In hindsight, I could (and should) have said something about that. I would have been perfectly fine with you just locking her up in a room. Not once did I say that was a bad idea. I however also didn't say it would be a good solution, and that's something I as a GM handled very poorly: I stayed too much on the background during this portion of the session. It's something I'll try and improve on. I'm honestly happy that the OP brought this up and I hope to talk to him, as well as the others, to gather feedback on how to better handle similar situation next time.

I did, however, say multiple times that to me just killing her felt like an evil act. I mean, I can understand why you'd want to kill her and I can understand the reasons behind it, but at the same I personally consider it as still taking someone's life, which makes you a murderer regardless of your intentions. It's the same way I view the death penalty in real life, which you're free to disagree on.

I also did state that I wasn't sure if your alignment would shift to evil or not because of this. I said that it would be something I'd have to check. If anything, I don't want a PC to drop down to evil. I don't want to be the one to tell a Paladin that he's fallen. I want that person to enjoy his character and play out his character, but I wasn't sure how to handle this particular situation. That's also why I asked a nearby GM what his thought were. I did not have a fixed result in mind, though it might have come across differently. After all: I didn't want the paladin to fall and/or the rogue to become evil, while I myself was in doubt, so I said that killing her was perhaps not the best solution. Again in hindsight, I should have been more open about me being in dubio towards the players.

In short, it was a difficult situation for me and I wasn't sure how to handle this properly. I struggled with the situation just as much as the players were. In the end I resolved it differently, avoiding the whole situation of 'will it be evil or not?'. That way I would stop second-guessing myself, make sure the player wouldn't get penalized if it indeed turned out to be an evil act and get the session going again.

Long story short: while the party was still debating what to do, I let the Bloodrager successfully convince the alchemist and his family to join the Scarab Sages. They would leave the city with the party, so they would no longer be in harm's way, meaning that even if she somehow miraculously got free, the bad guy couldn't exact revenge. The paladin wouldn't have to kill her and the family would be safe. Whether or not the new owner of the bar killed his former boss while the party is busy doing other tasks in the city, well, that's something left best to the players imagination because I honestly have no clue.

Now if not being entirely certain something is an evil act or not, is me being a dick or a terrible GM, then I guess I'm guilty. Actions have consequences, so if it indeed was an act evil enough to force a character to drop down in alignment, I will have to act accordingly after the scenario is over but it's not as if that's my goal, let alone something I want to have happen in the first place. I admit to having struggled there and not having handled the situation in the best way, I'm not ashamed of saying that. I however do not force my will upon a party and I will not make a character drop down in alignment against his will when I'm in doubt or when there's an other option available. I will continue to look with the party to find a suitable solution instead, though next time a bit more actively if required.

That said, I do hope that regardless of this incident the players had a fun time and I hope that they can provide me with some suggestions on how to handle similar situations better next time. I'm running the sessions for them, not for myself.

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I can hardly wait to find out what a PFS-scenario on the Plane of Earth is like. I'm really looking forward to it. At least I know I'll be in good hands since I'll be sitting at Tineke's table.

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Gefeliciteerd Auke! It is well-deserved!