The classes could also vary depending on what the Furycrafter focuses on. It seems like most of the canon Furycrafters gravitate towards a particular skill set based on their type of Fury.
Tavi himself would be a weird mix of classes (possibly due to not being trained as a furycrafter). He probably started as a bit of a ranger, based on his outdoorsiness and the master of his hold being a ranger. The imperial training he receives seems to be a blend of fighter and rogue, with both combat in heavy armor and covert work being taught. By the end of the second book, I'd probably have him at somewhere around Ranger 1 / Fighter 1 / Rogue 2 if I was using book classes.
The Fox wrote:
Boot Hill was a different system from D&D. I have the third edition, and there's really no similarity. However, the first edition AD&D DMG did have rules for converting between Gamma World, Boot Hill, and AD&D. Those conversion rules included damage for Boot Hill guns in AD&D, so that does move the introduction of firearms in AD&D back to no later than 1979.
I have six players so I am trying to figure out a role for the Ship's Surgeon/Carpenter and Ship's Navigator to do in combat.
For the Navigator, they should be able to either aid the pilot's roll (Find a Current) or reduce the opponent's ability to maneuver (Force Them on the Shoals). A carpenter should be able to Fix the Ship, and once artillery shooting starts, they can get wounded sailors Back In The Fight.
Jubal Breakbottle wrote:
Ed Greenwood did guns in DnD in Dragon #60, April 1982. If you don't care for rules from Dragon, since they were optional, they were also in 1990's Forgotten Realm Adventures. I do not believe firearms are new to DnD.
I really wonder why they tried to enter the "pimp-my-ship" option........ next thing "shiny red metallic hue," which will put the fear of Besmara into anyone... +2 to scare merchants !
Nah...everybody knows red ones go faster!
(oh, wait...wrong intellectual property? I'll see myself out now)
It depends on timeframe and labor. Shipyards were far more efficient in the late Age of Sail than in the Plantagenet/Lancaster/Tudor era that is more technologically similar to Golarion (excepting the salvaged items of Numeria). Japan built the 500-ton galleon Date Maru in 45 days in 1613, but they used 4500 trained craftsmen (shipwrights, smiths, and carpenters), and had prepared all the raw material ahead of time. Labor costs alone for those 45 days, in Pathfinder terms, would be 60,750 gold to pay for the workers, more than double the cost of the most expensive ship listed in Ultimate Equipment. A ship CAN be built quickly at low tech levels, but it is expensive. You also need a large and organized population - 4500 is more than 10% of the population of Port Peril, and getting 10% of Port Peril to work on anything would be virtually impossible.
If we go back a little further to 15th century England (simply because I have the references for that time and place), Henry V's 1400-ton carrack Grace Dieu took three years to build, while Henry VII's Regent and Sovereign (800-ton and 1000-ton carracks) each took two years to build. Henry VIII's 500-ton Mary Rose took a year and a half to build, while the Henri Grace a Dieu, the first two-decker and 1500 tons, required three years to build. Smaller ships (such as the 300-ton galleass Antelope of 1546) required only around a year to build.
For a ship that a medieval/renaissance pirate would be likely to use (i.e. one from the era of ballistae or early cannon), which would be similar to a small merchant ship, it should take only a few months to build a ship if it's being made at a decent shipyard - decorations will be significantly less than on a royal warship, and it's being built with less care to the details. Building it faster is possible, but at a significantly increased cost. For a caravel of 50-60 tuns capacity, it should take only a couple of months to build with an adequate work force.
Overall, it's easier just to steal a ship. It's already built, it has sails and rigging and hopefully some weapons and supplies. Ships even back in the 1400s lasted a long time - Columbus' Pinta was over 50 years old when she made the voyage in 1492, and the Santa Maria was over 30 years old.
How about a ring of the jabberwock's spirit, which grants fast healing 10? This is in line with his being a combat machine and annoyingly tough without granting him any more offensive abilities.
James Jacobs wrote:
A relatively simple way that wouldn't require a feat would be to put in a chart similar to what Al-Qadim had for its merchant-rogues. They established trade companies rather than caravans, but the concept of a monthly profit is similar enought to a trade profit, and it kept the average profit manageable. On a trade, roll 1d10:1: Disaster! There is a glut of these goods, and you can only sell them at a 30% loss.
2: Goods were damaged in transportation, and you lost 20% of the money invested.
3: Interest is low right now, and you lose 10%.
4-5: Business is business. You make no profit or loss.
6-7: People are mildly interested in your goods, and you make a 10% profit.
8-9: Business is quite good, and you make a 20% profit.
10: Luck of luck! You brought exactly what people were looking for, and profits are 30%.
On average, this chart generates a 3% profit on any goods traded, with losses on 30% of goods and profits on 50% of goods. If characters choose to do research on what's needed further along their route, they may get a +1 bonus. Conversely, if wagons are badly damaged or they choose improper goods (bringing thin cotton tunics into the frozen north), they may be penalized with a -1 penalty.
Caveat Emptor was the one I was originally trying to find (I have that issue somewhere in my collection). That one would be a great scenario to run, since it's heavily investigative. When I tried to run it about six months after it was published, my group never did figure out what was causing the problem.
Looking back at some much older issues (these are mostly 2nd edition, but should be relatively easy to convert):
Dungeon 63 - Huzza's Goblin O' War (lv. 4-7)
Dungeon 64 - Grotto of the Queen (lv. 6-9)
Dungeon 65 - Flotsam (lv. 6-8)
Dungeon 66 - The Sunken Shadow (lv. 1-3)
Dungeon 66 - Operation Manta Ray (lv. 6-9)
Dungeon 74 - The Scourge of Scalabar (lv. 1-3)
Dungeon 77 - To Walk Beneath The Waves (lv. 3-5)
Dungeon 80 - Fortune Favors the Dead (lv. 5-7)
The other obvious choice would be Cheliax for infernal products. Major temples of Sarenrae may do some trade with the good planes of the Outer Sphere, since she was one of the Empyreal Lords before ascending to full godhood. It should still be rare, though, to preserve the mid-high fantasy feel (as opposed to the potentially epic fantasy feel of massive interplanar trade).
Eric - as far as magic plants and minerals go, they got somewhat short shrift in the core setting. Darkwood and skymetal were the only ones explicitly mentioned that I saw.
Sugar. Sugar was incredibly important in history, because it's fairly limited in where it can grow, and it doesn't travel well unless processed (raw cane ferments incredibly rapidly). Honey is somewhat of a substitute, but there are things both sugar and honey can be used for that the other can't.
Medicinal herbs. Some will only grow in certain areas, others can be widely cultivated. Their importance will vary somewhat depending on how common magic is in a particular campaign (if every village has a cleric with the ability to cure disease, medicines are less important).
Flax/linen. More comfortable and cooler than wool, easier to make than cotton, and cheaper than silk.
Tobacco. Possibly falls under the category of "drugs," but worth mentioning. Along with sugar, this was the major cash crop of the early American colonies.
So I got bored the other night, and had a new copy of the Inner Sea World Guide. Using just the descriptions of locations within that book, some likely exports for each country:
This is obviously not a complete list, but it's a starting point utilizing one book to get a quick listing of some available commodities in different countries.
I'd mostly be interested in a few things:
What does each country export?
Details beyond that (and possibly some charts for figuring the variability in cost of goods based on whether it's an export, import, or neutral for a particular country) should, in my opinion, be based on the needs of the DM.
It's unclear in that section, but taking the whole of Capponi's work in total, it appears he's referring to all of the galleasses, of which Duoda was in overall command. If you have page 257, it reads "...the four galleasses allotted to the centre and left wing managed to move into position in time, a mile ahead of their respective divisions. As for the other two they certainly reached the front of the right wing, but probably only a few hundred yards from it." Back on page 240, Capponi lists the vessels that set sail from Messina and were blessed by nuncio Giulio Maria Odescalchi as "207 galleys, six galleasses, twenty-eight roundships and thirty-two smaller vessels (frigates and brigantines)".
Ironically, 266-268 is also why I brought up the disruption of the Ottoman line and the flanking maneuvers. The galleass fire disrupted the Ottoman line, allowing tactical flanking by galleys. Doria's right flank was an odd combination of maneuvers, where both he and Uluc Ali Reis proceeded south in attempts to outflank each other. Ali Reis utilized his superior maneuverability to cut back inside Doria and "shoot the gap" between the League's centre and right, at which point Bazan's reserve held the turned flank while Doria flanked Ali Reis.
And given the size of the battle field, coordination of ships on both wings from a central command seems hard to accomplish without repeaters
I quite agree, which is why I think Capponi's description is too "clean." More likely, the galleasses were carrying out a prepared plan, rather than responding to actual orders. I like some of the detail Capponi goes into, but his narrative isn't as clear as, for example, Crowley's Empires of the Sea, or anything by Konstam.
It sounds like you have the full text, but without the two appendices (Appendix 1. Battle Arrays and Appendix 2. A - Galley Armament and 2. B - The Southern European Pound) and the maps (which aren't very good anyway).
Appendix 1 is also why I'm somewhat dubious about the galleasses sinking 60 ships. The Ottoman fleet totaled 302 ships (220 galleys, 39 galliots, and 43 lantern galleys). Uluc Ali Reis returned to Constantinople with 87 vessels. The Holy League captured 137 ships. That's 224 accounted for, and only 78 unaccounted for. If the galleasses sank 60 ships, that means the galleys of the Holy League only accounted for 18 ships sunk or otherwise destroyed (Capponi mentions a couple that were beached and couldn't be re-floated).
If that is the case, however, it does show how the galleasses were a major change in sea combat, from melee-and-capture (137 captured to 18 sunk by the galleys) to firepower (60 sunk to 0 captured by the galleasses). Given that the Venetian and Spanish galleys tended to carry heavy cannon (36-60 pounders), it suggests it wasn't just the size of cannon that made the difference. It's possible it was the extra elevation of the castles, which meant that the cannon were firing at a downward angle and thus more likely to hole a galley below the waterline, as opposed to a galley's centerline gun that tended to shoot straight through an opposing ship. This would also favor the catapults (though not the ballistas), as they would likewise be utilizing plunging fire.
Niccolo Caponi (MacMillan 2006) disagrees with your claim. Page 328 - 2 galleasses in the left division, 2 in the centre, 2 in the right, 6 total. Per pages 325-327, they were Bragadina (32) and Bragadina (27) on the left, Guora (23) and Duoda (28) in the centre, and Pesara (26) and Pisana (23) on the right. The map on page XXI clearly shows 6 galleasses across the entire fleet. For another source, R. G. Grant's Battle at Sea (Dorling Kindersley 2006) states on page 93 that the fleets at Lepanto were 206 galleys and 6 galleasses for the Holy League and 230 galleys for the Ottomans.
Not that I am aware of but I would love something like that.
Ditto. The only mention I can think of at the moment is pages 240-241 of the Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting. It states that most trade travels either along the "North Tack" (Sedeq-Katheer-Absalom-Taldor-Andoran-Corentyn) or the "South Tack" (Sothis-Absalom-Merab-Manaket-Azir). Other runs include Almas-Sothis, "the increasingly profitable Varisian Run," and "nearly two dozen" trade routes from Katapesh, with destinations ranging from Eleder to Kalsgard. Piecing through the various books to figure out who produces which products and where they'd be good to sell would be an interesting project, and one that could probably be done best by a group, since it will probably involve throw-away references scattered throughout adventures and sourcebooks.
To an extent. A 74 was about 100 tons (or 7%) bigger than Grace Dieu, or about the same size as Sovereign of the Seas (which was a 106-gun carrack). HMS Speedy was 10% bigger than a Lantern Galley at Lepanto, or 28% smaller than the Spanish galleasses that fought as part of the Armada.
If you want a "short and bloody fight" with smaller ships, look up Thomas Cochrane and his fight with "HMS Speedy vs El Gamo" (decided within 10 minutes, broadsides included),That's not correct. After the first broadside, El Gamo tried to board Speedy for over an hour, but Cochrane would establish enough distance to make boarding impossible while still staying under the depression ability of El Gamo's guns, at which point he'd resume firing into El Gamo. It was only "decided" quickly because of Cochrane's superior seamanship. It's also a couple hundred years after the timeframe of Pathfinder. It's a little like complaining about the lack of Gatling guns defending castle gates.
Francis Drake's "Golden Hind " battle with the "Cacafuego" ("Nuestra Senora de la Conception") (broadside + melee action, all over within half an hour)
That was an ambush (and there was no broadside). Fair enough to say that it was over quickly, but it was over quickly because it was a sneak attack rather than a stand-up slugging fight (and it was darn intelligent of Drake, since Nuestra Senora de la Concepcion probably badly outgunned him). Drake was the first Englishman in the Pacific, so the Cacafuego assumed it was a friendly ship until Drake had come alongside and started boarding. That's how smart pirates operate - subterfuge and lightning strikes, rather than slugging fights where both ships could be crippled.
The galleases at Lepanto : for one : no true broadsides, but two canon-armed castels , armed with cannons of up to 36 pounds,
They had cannon up to 50/60 pounds. Guoro's galleass had 2 60 pounders and 6 30 pounders. Every other galleass had 2 50 pounders, at least 2 30 pounders, and at least 4 20 pounders (the one with only 2 30 pounders had 10 20 pounders to compensate). Up to ten guns were carried on the forecastle, with 14 gun broadsides and the remaining cannon at the aft.
Firstly, the centerline guns of galleys weren't always crippling, or else 5 galleons (despite their "fragile" planking) wouldn't have resisted 55 galleys at Cape Celidonia for three days, sinking 10 of them in total.
Secondly, it was 6 galleasses, 2 on each wing. Bragadin and Bragadin on the left, Duodo and Guoro in the center, and de Pesaro and Pisani on the right. The Venetians (who built the ships) claimed 60 sunk by their galleasses, but Hugh Bicheno has suggested it was much less based on the writings from the other nations involved in the Holy League. However, it is possible, since they had roughly 80 times as much firepower as 60 Western galleys, Turkish galleys carried fewer guns than Western ones, and their high sides would have made them mostly immune to boarding from galleys. It's more probable, though, that their primary contribution was in disrupting the Turkish line so that the heavier Western galleys had openings to flank the Turks.
The galleasses' main problems with deep-sea raiding were lack of supplies (due to large crews) and fragile rudders. The English thought they were great ships (once they had been developed a bit so they didn't need to be towed like the Venetian ones), which was why the Tudors built the galleasses Grand Mistress, Galley Subtile, Mary Fortune, Sweepstake, Anne Gallant, Swallow, Lion, Jennet, Dragon, New Bark, Mermaid, Greyhound, George, Tiger, Bull, and Hart, as well as using the captured Franco-Scottish galleasses Unicorn and Salamander.
We're wandering off-topic a bit, though. Getting back to ship-to-ship combat, if someone felt they were too slow and wanted to speed them up, a relatively simple way would be to integrate the cannon from Atlas Games' Northern Crown setting. In short, cannon in that setting (which is slightly post-Elizabethan) inflict 10 damage plus 1d10 per pound of shot, so a galley's 36-pounder would inflict 36d10+10 damage, or an average of 208 damage. 4 shots would break a sailing ship. The paired 60-pounders of Duodo's galleass would inflict 680 damage as a "foreside", breaking a warship or sinking a keelboat with a single shot. This is almost certainly overkill, and might work better with the Stormwrack conversions that Varthanna is working on, but it's a start at making ship combat quicker.
The examples you selected are far later and more technologically advanced than a Pathfinder setting. The Constitution had a 950 pound broadside. The heaviest ship at the Battle of Lepanto, if it fired every gun it had (not a broadside, *every* gun) would shoot 504 pounds of ammunition. Most vessels of the time were far more lightly armed (carracks and caravels generally had broadsides of under 100 pounds). Battles did not necessarily end quickly - the Battle of Cannanore (1502) involved fighting over two days. Likewise, the 1508 Battle of Chaul involved sporadic fighting over two days as the Mamluks tried to board Portuguese vessels. Even Lepanto, with thin-hulled galleys and relatively heavy artillery, was a five-hour battle from first shot to final disengagement. Looking at the Armada campaign, the engagement off Eddystones lasted from dawn to dusk, and Gravelines lasted from dawn until 4PM, when the British ran out of ammunition. At Cape Celidonia, the first shot was fired at roughly 9 AM and battle continued until sunset, then resumed the next day and went until sunset again, then continued for a third day and lasted until 3 PM, when the galleys finally retreated from the galleons, for approximately 26 hours of battle over three days. Yes, some battles were quick. Just as many were long and slow.
And, of course, the 2nd edition had the holy grail of mind flayerdom, The Illithiad. I recommend both that and The Sea Devils, which was a book devoted to sahuagin.
I did like the Osprey Publishing style for some of the books that 2e did (the Horde Campaign and For Gold & Glory are prime examples as well), but I also greatly appreciate the internal consistency that Paizo has exhibited. It reminds me of the better sort of fantasy novel cover art. Besides which, 2e was also what gave us the absurdity of Dark Sun and Spelljammer (not to mention Planescape, which made even less sense than these).
Uri Meca wrote:
Well, a ship is a really great way of hauling stuff around that you might need or might not. We need to climb 500 feet down a sheer sinkhole? Good thing we can go back to the ship and get a LOT of rope! There are unfriendly natives with an interest in shiny things? Good thing we have 3 crates of glass beads on the ship!
And there's the problem of moving heavy (but valuable!) booty. When you capture a fort and there's a room full of raw silk where your mage could only transport a fraction of it each time, having a ship to carry that heavy (but valuable!) treasure is helpful.
In addition, if you've never been to or seen the Island Where The Quest Is, teleporting's dangerous. Clairvoyance probably shouldn't help, since that requires a "known or obvious" target. Scrying requires a creature to target. Even if the caster did manage to get a magical look at the place, it's likely to be at the "Viewed Once" level, meaning there's about a 1-in-4 chance of the spell going wrong, with them winding up on a random island somewhere in the middle of the ocean.
Also, part of the point of the AP is that the characters are trying to develop a reputation as infamous pirates. Pirates without a ship may be notorious, but for all the wrong reasons.
The old TSR Birthright setting had basic rules that would be fairly easy to use. This system bunches characters/creatures into groups of 20.
The total number of HD are the group's HP (i.e. 20 level 3 fighters have 60 HP).
For example, if those level 3 fighters were attacking AC 15 opponents, their final damage would be (20 + 3 - 15) = 8. Against AC 24 opponents, it would be (20 + 3 - 24) = -1, which would default to the minimum of 1.
Roll a die (original used 1d8, I prefer 1d10 to make things a little quicker) for each side and compare results
Bonuses/penalties to the die roll:
When a group's HP are halved in combat, halve their damage (rounding up) and reduce their die by one type (i.e. d8 to d6 or d10 to d8). At 1/4 HP, reduce the die type again.
In general, half of HP losses are deaths; the other half are recoverable wounds.
I would consider adding some additional rules as well, based on situation - for example, if one side has ranged weapons and the other doesn't, and it's not an ambush situation, the side with ranged weapons should get at least one free attack with the ranged weapons before being engaged in melee (roll as usual, but ignore casualties for the ranged unit).
I am having similar problems - Windows 7, Adobe Reader X 10.1.3, HP OfficeJet Pro 8100 with current drivers. I am able to print off some of the internal pages, but it takes about 45 seconds to a minute for Adobe to process each page, because it has to perform "flattening." Having done some large printing jobs in the past, each page takes longer to process than a 180-page black-and-white document took in its entirety. The printing is also hideously slow, presumably because of the complicated inking required. It's functional (mostly), but it may be beneficial to simplify future Player's Guides so that DMs can actually print out enough copies for their players (or, conversely, so that all the players are able to print their own).