Cayden Cailean

Thantrax's page

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I very much enjoyed tagging a few levels of Bard onto a Barbarian build. In the end, I brought the Bard up to level 4, but I think I might go 5 if I had to do it all again. The rest of it was Barbarian, and I always made Barbarian higher. Thematically, he was a middle aged dwarven mercenary with a long history of being 'in the business'. His last contract went rather poorly and he ended up getting captured. Previous levels atrophied and he forgot more than you'll ever know about fighting, all the stories of his previous accomplishments forming the cornerstone of his Inspire Courage abilities. Mechanically, I liked being able to spend a round or two before the fight when I got a chance to cast a buff spell and cue up Inspire Courage prior to wading into combat. Defensive spells really helped with making my Barbarian live a little longer than he should have otherwise.

First, I just wanted to say thank you for the great responses here. They've presented a number of options that are pretty darned good. I appreciate them being made.

Apothesis and Helic, you're absolutely right that the money made can't be too large, adventuring is the name of the game here. Nobody wants to stay at home and play KnitQuest because adventuring just isn't lucrative enough. Plus, Pathfinder was never built to include this kind of thing. Adventuring is rightly it's focus. Helic, I like your solution, it's elegant in it's simplicity. I can't see it ballooning too far out of control. I also liked your 'teamwork' idea on the Aid Another checks.

Lurk3r, thanks for pointing out that feat. I may just see about taking it, I'm a fighter and so have feats to burn. I like the feel of it, even if it is a bit impersonal as you say.

Rory, I like your basic approach and the math behind it seems to be somewhat reasonable. I just didn't quite follow why the money on the second month was a greater income than the first one. The first month and the second month didn't list any skill rank changes or different time involved. Were you folding the profits for the first month back into the total value or something? I like that the business evidently benefits from it's benefactor being on hand, but doesn't just fold up and blow away when he's gone.

DeathQuaker, pobbes, and sputang, my DM has looked at the DMG II and has agreed with your suggestion, he'll be using the investment rules from there. Thanks for the great reference. My copy of Cityscape is currently on loan to a friend, so I never got to reference it, but I presume my DM did already. He has added a few things to it as well, to work with Kingmaker. He has ruled that hexes we have not claimed are wilderness, hexes that have no town in them but are claimed are rural, and hexes with a town, city, or metropolis in them will work as such. Profit checks are made during the Kingdom Turn, at the same time as we do our management. As well, every 2 000 gp I invest into my business as capitol will also act as a 1 BP reduction if we build an equivilent upgrade in our kingdom, down to a minimum of 0 BP of course. I might urge him to make it 1 BP minimum. Also, I've clarified with him, if the kingdom does use that discount, I am still the 'private owner' of that business and earn the profit, while the kingdom gets the full normal bonuses from having that upgrade.

Hello everyone! I'm part of a campaign right now being run in a custom setting using the Kingmaker rules. As such, we get the luxury of having a single town that we can return to. It makes me want to be a part of the community. One of the other players and I are keen on setting up some business ventures. We've already acquired a slew of dogs and hired on a kennel master, hoping to make some money off of the dogs and put them to some use on our adventures. I'm further interested in setting up some private holdings in the city, such as becoming the patron for some craftsmen, and establishing a lumber company to meet the needs of our new nation.

I've run this past my GM and he's happy to let me do it, but he's struggling for how to adjudicate it. I'm struggling for advice to give him on it too. I'm hoping someone here can help. Ultimately, we can take a look at breaking down the costs of something like, say, the lumber camp. Take a look at how much each worker would be paid. Costs for axes, horses to haul lumber, building some structures to house the workers, all of that stuff. The thing that we can't work out is a fair way of deciding how much money this would bring in.

Please note, we're not looking for this to be a kingdom resource. This is something that my character would be personally owning and looking for compensation in gold pieces, not in build points.

crustbucket wrote:
i had the same problem. the fix is to first find and download the file in the error message (j2re, then uninstall whichever version of java you are using, reinstall java (if you can find it) and then install dundjinni. you can then update java back to the current version. let me know if it works.

I humbly thank you for compensating for my lack of computer fu. I used to be good at this, I swear, but I think I'm losing my 1337 hax0rz skillz on a daily basis. It took me a while to even find Java 2 v1.4.2, and was only able to find it on If I hadn't remembered a friend mentioning the existence of the website, I'd have been in for a long, long search. Google just kept directing me to Sun, who have discontinued it in favour of their latest version. Can't fault them for that. I have Dundjinni working once more.

That said, I'll be looking into what Entropi mentioned about layering of the PDFs. If they can be done that way, it would save me literally hours of work. Dundjinni is still a very valuable resource for when I find myself running my own adventures again, but I miss having free time.

Phil Ridley wrote:
Thantrax wrote:

So, my old lap top has decided to imitate the parts that make up the wall, namely the bricks. I type this to you on my new, more powerful, much sexier laptop running Windows Vista 64 bit. This is mostly pleasing me, but there is one critical miss in this whole set up.

Dundjinni does not install on my 64 bit architecture.

I'm currently just finishing up Foxglove manor and have need for battle mats for the remainder adventures. Has anyone got any solutions they can offer to me? To make the solutions more complicated, I don't have the PDF versions of the adventure path. I opted to buy it through my local gaming store in an effort to support them and Paizo. I now have no PDF versions. This makes me sad, but I made my own bed there.

Hmm, I've got Dundjinni running OK in 64-bit Vista Ultimate. I don't recall having too many problems getting it to run. What errors are you getting when you try to install/run it?

It runs into it's problem right after it checks what version of Java I've got installed. It produces this error message, "Windows cannot find 'j2re-1_4_2_-2-windows-i586-p.exe' Make sure you typed the name correctly, and then try again.", and then after that gives me a second error message of "Could not execute the external program j2re_1_4_2_02-windows-i586-p.exe." The fact that you have it working though gives me hope that it can be done. I would like to use this program if at all possible, it's a really good one.

Tom, thanks a ton for that link. Those will help buy me the time I need to get the mapping situation sorted out. Two of my players head out to Thailand after the next game session, so I'm currently working out the logistics of jumping my team directly from the bowels of Foxglove Manor to the Shadow Clock. I think I'll just have a more 'explanatory' note that should bring them to the right location, and this map will save my tush.

Entropi, have you found a solution for the problem of the room numbers and the DM notes being on the map, or do you just use them as is, figuring it doesn't matter if they know this is room 7 or not?

So, my old lap top has decided to imitate the parts that make up the wall, namely the bricks. I type this to you on my new, more powerful, much sexier laptop running Windows Vista 64 bit. This is mostly pleasing me, but there is one critical miss in this whole set up.

Dundjinni does not install on my 64 bit architecture.

I'm currently just finishing up Foxglove manor and have need for battle mats for the remainder adventures. Has anyone got any solutions they can offer to me? To make the solutions more complicated, I don't have the PDF versions of the adventure path. I opted to buy it through my local gaming store in an effort to support them and Paizo. I now have no PDF versions. This makes me sad, but I made my own bed there.

I hate you for doing such amazing work and being exactly one step behind me. I found your postings for this the night after I ran the first two thirds of Foxglove Manor. For the upcoming game, I need the caverns and the sawmill. Looks like I'm relying upon my considerably less formidable talents for this...

I'm sorry about not getting back to this thread for so long. One of my roommates just gave birth, so providing support to her and her husband has been my priority. I'm pretty sure you'll all understand. Real life always comes before D&D, no matter how fun the game.

Roguerouge, I haven't decided yet how I'm going to run the mass combat stuff. I'm open to suggestions. I'll have to take a look at this Kriegsspiel, I seem to see it pop up a lot. The mobs idea has some elements I really like, but I'm not sure about some of the aspects like the uber-grapple and such. It might be a touch too abstract for my taste. Ultimately, I suspect I'll decide how I'm resolving it when I learn what my PCs are using for a strategy. I've got the luxary of having the next game session be a war council and supply gather, then two weeks before I have to run the war itself. Your observation about the goblins liking fire is dead on. I want to try and incorperate the 10 rules of Goblin into the battle strategy of the Goblins as I can.

Toyrobots, would you believe I haven't seen that yet? It's on my list of things I must see.

Yoda8MyHead, I'm curious, did you have Sheriff Hemlock suggest the plan of assassinating the leaders at Thistletop? My players basically just told the Sheriff they'd help however he thought best and left the planning to him. They know that this time they'll be expected to form the strategy.

I've assembled a list of the Important NPCs from a war perspective, as far as I can tell. Several of them are just plain going to help. Others I think are going to need some convincing.

Father Zantus of the Cathedral and Naffer Vosk are a shoe in. I believe they'll be willing to step in and serve as healers for the battle. This is Sheriff Hemlock's job, so he'll obviously throw down, as will the 11 remaining town watchmen (1 was brought up on bribery charges for his role in the Swallowtail Festival incident and was taken to Magnimar when the Sheriff went to get the recruits), the 12 fresh recruits he brought back, the jailor and the 62 militia mentioned in the Barracks entry. Ameiko sees this whole incident as the fault of her family, so she'll almost certainly pitch in unless my PCs somehow offend her. Daviren Hosk would likely have to be held back if they didn't want him to help. Shalelu likewise is a certain contributor. I expect everyone else would need various degress of convincing.

Orik I already plan on having show up. I'm debating if he should simply give all the information he has up front or demand a fee for it. He's certainly going to demand a fee to participate in the fight. I don't know what would be a good fee for him yet though, I'm thinking along the lines of 100 gp for his sword, 200 gp for his information. Otherwise he'll simply flee the area as quickly as he can. It may have looked like a nice town, but I don't see him being attached to it without staying there for a while. I expect it would be rather easy to convince Hannah and Niska to act as healing support, though they have no direct duties to do so. I expect that convincing Titus Scarnetti to contribute funding to the cause would be relatively easy, but I also suspect his contributions would get the backs up of several of the other locals who otherwise would be more helpful.

I expect that Jubrayl could be one of the most interesting NPCs in regards to this prepwork. If the PCs could learn how important he is and bring him alongside, Jubrayl could bring a lot of firepower to the fight. 24 goons, Aliver Podiker, and not to mention his 7 class levels. However, he'd upset a lot of people. I'm looking specifically for ways to have Jubrayl show up as a possibility but make it one that the PC's don't neccessarily like. Perhaps he'll make them a side deal, saying he can make his people available for some sizable sum of cash, or perhaps in exchange for some item someone else in town owns that he couldn't otherwise get. It would have to be a deal on the side, mind you, and they couldn't tell the Sheriff about it, lest he find himself in a jail cell...

As far as the rest of the town, I see them needing to do some footwork. Some of these people would be known to be capable, like Sir Jasper or Gaven Deverin. Others, like Jargie Quinn, might not be obvious. I'm thinking perhaps a Bardic Lore or Knowledge : Local check would help people identify who could help in the fight. Diplomacy will likely scale depending on who it is, what their motive to help is, and if someone they dislike or like is already 'on the roster'.

Anyone see anybody on this list particularly likely to help or not help? Anyone able to think of cool ways to recruit these people?

Already Helping


Father Abstalar Zantus, Cleric 4, runs the Cathedral
Naffer Vosk, Rogue 1/Cleric 2, runs the Boneyard
Sheriff Belor Hemlock, Fighter 4, issues with Garridan, relationship with Kaye
Vachedi, Barbarian 3, jailor, wants money to buy back sons from slavers
11 town watchmen, Warrior 2, one was sent to Magnimar to face charges of bribery
12 new town watchmen, Warrior 1, Sheriff Hemlock brought them from Magnimar
62 militia men and women, Warrior 1, poorly equipped
Kendra Deverin, Aristocrat 4/Expert 3, Town mayor
Ameiko Kaijitsu, Aristocrat 1/Bard 3/Rogue 1, Tsuto is in jail, it's her family's problem
Daviren Hosk, Ranger 4, runs the Goblin Squash Stables and is a retired goblin hunter
Shalelu Andosana, Ranger 2/Fighter 1, goblin hunting ranger

Needs Convincing


Veznutt Parooh, Wizard 2/Expert 4, sells maps of waterways
Maver Kesk, Expert 3, the Jeweler, has 6 guards working for him who are Warrior 3
Gorvi, Warrior 3, dung shoveler for the town
Brodert Quink, Expert 7, library and Thassilonian scholar
Volioker Briskalberd, Rogue 2/Expert 3, locksmith, fan of the arts, dislikes scoundrels and Sczarni
Savah Bevaniky, Fighter 2/Rogue 1, runs Savah's Armoury
Risa Magravi, Sorcerer 4, blind and older, three sons Commoner 2
Das Korvut, Fighter 1/Expert 3, angry man, owns at least three mastiffs
Aliver Podiker, Adept 5, herbalist and secret poisoner, friend of Sczarni
Nisk Tander, Wizard 1/Expert 2, alchemist who sells some bum goods
Sabyl Sorn, Monk 4, runs the House of Blue Stones
Chask Haladan, Bard 3/Expert 3, owns the Curious Goblin
Cyrdak Drokkus, Bard 6, runs the theater, relationship with Jasper
Ilsoari Gandethus, Wizard 4/Rogue 2, retired adventurer, Turandarok Academy
Niska Mvashti, Druid 3, Sorcerer 4, Mystic Theurge1, very old, dislikes Sczarni
Jargie Quinn, Rogue 2, Expert 2, one legged, owns the Hagfish
Turch Sterglus, Rogue 1/Expert 5, retired fisherman
Gaven Deverin, Paladin 2/Expert 3, in his 50s
Sir Jasper Korvaski, Paladin 3/Expert 1, relationship with Cyrdak, Scarnetti hate him
Hayliss Korvaski, Cleric 2/Expert 2, brother of Jasper, hates Scarnetti
Gressel Tenniwar, Rogue 2/Expert 1, runs the Fatman's Feedbag
Jubrayl Vhiski, Rogue 7, runs the Sczarni, 24 'goons'
Kaye Tesarani, Rogue 3/Sorcerer 1, 3 Shoanti bouncers Barbarian 3, Scarnetti hate her
Vorvashali Voon, Wizard 2/Rogue 2/Expert 2, runs the Feathered Serpent
Hannah Velerin, Cleric 3/Expert 1, healer and herbalist
Titus Scarnetti, Aristocrat 6, controls the Scarnetti fortune
Orik Vancaskerkin, Fighter 3, mercenary for hire

So, here's the deal. I decided to change up things by having Nualia's plan be a little quicker to come to fruition. It's been about two weeks since the Swallowtail Festival and she's ready to launch the big raid on Sandpoint. The PCs attacked Thistletop. They kicked in the front door, killed all the goblins, killed the Tentamort, killed Bruthazmus, and then fled before Nualia and her henchmen. My call on the matter is that Nualia has decided she doesn't have time to continue hunting before the raid. She's going to take the reins of the Thistletop goblins that yet survive and gather the tribes. She's going to get them to attack Sandpoint. She'll give them her dark blessing and leave the battle to the chiefs.

After all, she doesn't care who wins. She just cares that it's bloody.

I'm thinking that it's going to be too much for Orik. The module mentions he's having reservations about this, so I've decided he only learned the full extent of the plan now and has decided to pack it in. Bodyguarding her and helping her make a transformation is one thing, but butchering the entire village of Sandpoint to make an army of monsters is causing him to flake. He's going to leave Nualia's group and head for Sandpoint post haste. Once there, he'll tell the players of Nualia's plan regarding the runewell. He has no idea how to use it himself, he doesn't care about such things. He also doesn't know how to disable it. He's just going to tell them that Nualia has no intentions of capturing the town and intends to destroy it. He'll hang around long enough to see if the town wants to hire him on to help defend them. If not, he's fleeing before the goblins arrive.

I'm going to be assembling a cheat sheet of the major NPCs in the town and rough class levels. The PCs are going to be put in charge of organizing the defense itself. They'll have full use of the town watch and Sheriff Hemlock to be certain. From there, they are going to have to gather allies. I'm looking at running this in two sessions. The first session will be making their plan and rallying the defenses. The second game session will be the battle for Sandpoint, since I expect that to take a while.

What I'm looking for is ways to spice this up. I want to make it more than the baddies line up over here and the goodies line up over there, and then they must fight. I'm looking for things the goblins will be doing. I'm looking for clever ideas the townsfolk will be putting forward. I'm looking for a couple of things the PCs can do to prepare for this, like perhaps something they could raid for supplies. I'm looking at making the bard in the group do some talking to try and convince locals to help with the defense, but other than diplomacy checks I'm not sure what to do on that yet.

The goblin pencent for songs means their army is most certainly going to use a war song or war chant of some sort. I'm thinking perhaps the goblins will surround the village and then send forth some of their 'heroes' to put on a small display, like whirling some blades around or other such posturing. This display would be a distraction while they send some canoes around the coast to try and slip into town.

As it just so happens, I'm about to go out shopping in a region that has both a Toys 'R Us and a butcher. I think I'm going to have to investigate these options in a more hands on and wallet bearing fashion. I think I'm warming to the pig's blood idea, that's great. People blood I'd have problems with, but pig's blood would just be cool. If that turns out not to be an option, that colour mix of paints would be a good idea. and in fact, I think I might just write the note, cover my hands in paint, and then handle it a bit. It'll make it 'authentic'. I'll have to decide if I hand write the note while bloody handed or slather on the blood after. I'll also have to take pictures when I'm done so you can all bask in how awesome I am for being able to follow suggestions. ;)

One of the hardest parts I found was handling Lord Foxglove. It's tricky to try and push him just far enough without going too far. You want to work him until you just get that tingle up their spine, then have him fade out fast. In my group, I had the benefit of two female PCs to work with. He fell hard for the Druid. I had an easy in because her firepelt companion got dandered by the goblin dog in Die, Dog, Die! Aldern helped her get her companion back to the Rusty Dragon and offered up some salves to help with the itching. It earned him instant points, and a bit of poetic flattery helped too. "It was really quite grand the way you all lept into the fray there." Turning to look at the PC in question, "When you swung your scimitar, it was like you were holding Sarenrae's cresent in your hand, and you swung it with the grace of Desna."

Through the boar hunt, the rest of the players started to get fed up, but the PC Aldern was fixated on was embarassed to have his attentions. Nobody complained too loudly though because they'd all been given horses. The moment that I got the chill up her spine was when Ameiko hesitantly informed her that Aldern had requested that she draw the PC a bath on his bill. Complete with scented oils and flowers floating in the water. Shortly after this, Aldern had to be away. It seems to have had the perfect effect. You need to lock him in there mind, then have him vanish so they don't figure out what's up immediately at the start of #2.

At the start of the second adventure path, we're supposed to have the players find a bloody note at the murder scene. I love it. I've also loved using the handouts that I've found on here. (Special thanks to Lilith for that amazing artwork and to Greg Volz for his letters in both Minkai and English, it really gave my Minkai PC a chance to feel special.) So, my next task is to make the bloody note. Making the note itself is easily done. The blood is giving me pause. I'm certainly not going to use real blood. For one, gross. For two, unhygenic. So, with that not an option, does anyone know a good way to fake dried blood? Has anyone else tried making these notes before?