Succubus Erislilith's page

That's some kind of tiefling, it's not a succubus. A succubus in Pathfinder usually starts after level 7. If you start from level 1, you need a monster class up to level 7 (in DnD 3.5 it was up to level 12, in Savage Species Book). After level 7 you can use any other class, including prestige classes.

Succubi are not native to the material plane. They usually are born and grow in the Abyss.

This goes to all GMs who are in a situation similar to the person who made this thread. If you are a GM and do not know what to do with a succubus, then simply do not allow your player to use one.

If a GM can not prevent a player from getting out of control, then that person does not deserve to be GM.

There are many ways to deal with the powers of a succubus, starting with putting more undead, oozes, plants, and qiliphoths.

A nerf to the succubus PC is completely unnecessary.

Also, that character mentioned in this thread was nerfed from the beginning.

DC21 in suggestion is very low for a succubus player.

This means that the spell-like ability, suggestion from a succubus player usually runs between 23-26, and even some surpass the DC30 with the correct selection of feats, potions and gears.

A succubus player usually has on average between 30-37 in CHA. In addition, a succubus player can easily exceed 40 in CHA through potions and gears.

As GM you have to always check the rules, in this case, it is possible according to the rules of Pathfinder to allow a player to use a succubus as a playable race from level 7. There is no need to modify anything.

These are the racial modifiers for a succubus.
+2 STR, +6 DEX, + 10 CON, +8 INT, +4 WIS, +16 CHA
and +8 racial bonus in Bluff and Perception. It possesses the demon and outsider traits, also the chaotic and evil subtypes.
A succubus player usually starts from lv7 in Pathfinder.

Allowing a succubus player is only for experienced GMs, because they need to know how to prevent that player from getting out of control and abuse their powers, while at the same time they must avoid reducing or removing power to the player, so that the player can experience the experience of a succubus.

In other words, for all GMs who are reading this after 2019, if you are a GM with no experience, better not allow your players to use a succubus.

For the simple reason that it will be frustrating for you as GM, as for the player. The player will be annoyed that you lower their DCs, or that you try to reduce their spell-like abilities at will, and that you do not allow them to use all their abilities.

Those are measures that only mediocre GMs take. A good GM who knows rules would never do that. A GM who knows how to apply the rules correctly, will find another way to deal with the problem without directly harming the player.

The benefits of the succubus class should be taken as the benefits obtained from any other class within the game. That benefits would be mainly high charisma, various spell-like abilities at will, supernatural abilities, good social skills, and usually a high DC.

As GM there are several ways to deal with that, just as it is done with the other classes. Try to put NPCs of other races, for example try to put more monsters of the undead type, oozes, plant, qlippoth in the game, put enemies with a high SR, put more devils, demons, daemons and celestial and mindless creatures.

Legally the player would have all his supernatural abilities, spell-like abilities and other succubus abilities working correctly, simply that usually they would not work against those npc monsters because their traits.

But whatever you do, never deny the player his class skills or his monster class abilities.

Ethereal Jaunt and Greater Teleport at will are not a problem. There may be areas of anti-magic field, there may be places where this active spell that prevents teleportation, such as Dimensional Anchor, there may be ethereal creatures that can attack the succubus player if he or she uses ethereal jaunt constantly all the time.

Succubus Erislillith, that is a very useful post. All the succubi I've ever ran have ended poorly.

Thanks. I must update the information.

Arcane Sight Spell and the Detect Magic Spell DON'T WORK against Change Shape, because is a supernatural ability

I forgot that my GM was very inexperienced and he did not know well the differences between a spell-like ability and a supernatural ability. Not to mention that the other players in my team were also very ignorant and wanted to apply Spellcraft to everything, including supernatural abilities and extraordinary abilities. The GM applied a house rule at that time, that my Change Shape could be detected with detect magic for his convenience.

But normally Change Shape (Su) can not be detected by Detect Magic spell, or by Arcane Sight spell.

Arcane Sight

This spell makes your eyes glow blue and allows you to see magical auras within 120 feet of you. The effect is similar to that of a detect magic spell, but arcane sight does not require concentration and discerns aura location and power more quickly.

You know the location and power of all magical auras within your sight. An aura’s power depends on a spell’s functioning level or an item’s caster level, as noted in the description of the detect magic spell (see tables above.) If the items or creatures bearing the auras are in line of sight, you can make Spellcraft skill checks to determine the school of magic involved in each. (Make one check per aura; DC 15 + spell level, or 15 + half caster level for a nonspell effect.)

If you concentrate on a specific creature within 120 feet of you as a standard action, you can determine whether it has any spellcasting or spell-like abilities, whether these are arcane or divine (spell-like abilities register as arcane), and the strength of the most powerful spell or spell-like ability the creature currently has available for use.

As with detect magic, you can use this spell to identify the properties of magic items, but not artifacts.

Arcane sight can be made permanent with a permanency spell.

As you can see in the description, it mentions the spells and spell-like abilities but not the supernatural abilities.

From the Savage Species book, I recommend the feat Supernatural Transformation.

Supernatural Transformation
( Savage Species, p. 39)

[General]

You convert a spell-like ability to a supernatural ability.
Prerequisite

Innate spell-like ability,
Benefit

One of your innate spell-like abilities becomes a supernatural ability. It is no longer subject to spell resistance, though it can still be suppressed in an antimagic field. Using this ability does not provoke an attack of opportunity. The number of uses, if limited, does not change. The effective caster level equals your total Hit Dice or the effective caster level of the original ability, whichever is higher.
Special

You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take it, it applies to a new spelllike ability.

It gives you the advantage that your Charms and Compulsions are not subject to Dispell Magic spell, nor to Spell Resistance, they do not need concentration to use them in a complicated situation. They can not be detected by Detect Magic spell or Detect Charm spell.

Because these last two spells focus on spells, not on the effects of supernatural abilities. Those spells need to use Spellcraft to identify the aura of the spell, but Spellcratf does not work if they are not spells.

The Suppress Charms and Compulsions spell, can temporarily suppress the effects of a Charm (Su), but they need to maintain concentration for 10 minutes.

You can also use the magic scrolls of Aura Alteration spell, and Imbue with Aura spell. It would be fun to use them against a Paladin or an Inquisitor. You can also use a magic scroll (Dispel Magic) against the Death Ward spell or the Dimmensional Anchor spell.

The biggest problem with the FAQ (besides lacking any real rules support) is that it flat out contradicts tons of existing material. Players and GMs the world over weren't the only ones who believed it worked a certain way; a great many game developers and writers thought the same thing!

There's plenty of evidence for it. There are official Paizo modules with villains casting spells on the PCs while invisible up in the shallow rafters above them, or similar scenarios where casters rely on greater invisibility to evade the PCs WHILE CASTING SPELLS--something that is completely impossible as written for anyone adhering to the FAQ. The succubus and lots of other magical ambush monsters no longer function as originally intended. The doppelganger can't even read minds any more without giving up the whole game!

This FAQ single-handedly killed a great many BBEGs, common fantasy tropes, modules, monsters, and untold number of PCs.

It's no wonder so many are upset about it and refuse to use it in their games!

+1

The closer they got to each other, the more danger they both faced of dying and the few times they met and those encounters occurred, it was something very exciting to observe because the situation became tense, each one moved his humanoid pieces as if they were pieces of Chess.

The funny thing was that before when both met in the same room with several people, the situation was so tense and interesting because of the mental scan they made between the two.

Now with all the changes in Pathfinder, it would be very difficult for both of them to sneak up on each other, especially using their detect thoughts without both of them noticing the other, although it would be useless anyway because both used rings of mind shielding.

In the case of the succubus, she could also hide her presence because she could possess creatures and she did not need the ring because she had the Mind Shielding (Su) and Hide Presence (Ex) from other prestige classes, and in the case of the doppelganger this either, because this would have that Mind Blank from a prestige class.

But now the problem with the new rules of Pathfinder would be that before they can try to hunt each other. Their abilities to detect thoughts of both, and the ability of the succubus to charm and use suggestion in others to influence their actions, would cause both to be caught before doing something.

I understand that magic missile, fireball or darkness can be seen perfectly even though they are spell-like abilities, because their effect is clearly visible to the eye.

But I consider it ridiculous that charm monster, suggestion and detect thoughts being spell-like abilities are detected only by sight or hearing or other perception, it is supposed that they should be discreet and not attract attention, especially detect thoughts, it is supposed to be used to spy.

I understand that if they are spells if they can be detected because they have verbal and somatic components and some even need materials to be able to use them; but the spell-like ability does not occupy absolutely any of that.

Currently I always use the skill of bluff in PF before using any spell-like ability, in fact I prefer to use the skills of bluff and diplomacy directly to avoid attracting unwanted attention, since 'charm monster' can be detected by detect evil, detect magic and detect charm.

If the effect is not magical, then there is nothing to detect and the best thing is that due to the high charisma of the succubus, this can get others to do what she wants even without using her spell-like abilities of charm monster or suggestion.

So that is a obvious no brainer for me to take, but my question is in regard to the bonus spells listed at the appropriate spell level for her. Does she add those to her spells known when she reaches the appropriate spell level to cast them, or does she have to spend Spell Known slots to learn them? My initial thought is that she would get those automatically.

This is from the Dreamscarred Press Monster Classes series of pdfs. This particular option basically allows you to trade in your Succubus spell-like abilities for the ability to cast spells from the Cleric Spell like but with a Bards number of spells known and spells per day, ruled by your charisma on all things spell related.

Personally I would not change the spell-like abilities by spells, if I had wanted a cleric, I become a cleric and not a succubus.

If I am going to play as a succubus then I play as a succubus, I do not understand why some people insist on using the succubus as if it were another class, like a Bard, Fighter, Sorcerer, Cleric, Paladin or Antipaladin.

I would recommend better designing a Prestige Class suitable for her when she finishes her succubus levels, which will improve her innate abilities as mentioned in the Savage Species book, instead of using generic normal classes not optimized for her.

For example, that class of prestige optimized for succubus, could make the charms undetectable by detect magic spell, detect charm spell or detec evil spell. Also the prestige class could make her add her charisma bonuses to all her saves and her armor class. It could also make her alignment undetectable as if she used mind blank and maybe improving her social skills. It is a world of possibilities. Could, that kind of prestige could give her several types of magical aura to fight with multiple enemies or a debuff skill that improved their kisses.

The reason for this is because she would start as a level 7 character. So she could directly use a prestige class, and what better than that kind of prestige be optimized to enhance her sucubus powers, fix her weaknesses and make her more lethal.

This is why you want to have Protection From Evil up. It 1) gives a bonus to AC and saves vs. evil creatures, 2) prevents the mind control (Suggestion is a compulsion) from working, 3) may stop the Succubus from attacking you with passion.

Deathless armor can also prevent the negative level 25% of the time.

Death Ward grants immunity to the energy drain of the creature.

/cevah

Yes but that only works if she does not have access to dispell magic spell. She could even be prepared to counteract the effects of freedom of movement spell.

If the succubus manages to summon a babau, this demon has the dispel magic spell-like ability at will.

Usually when a succubus uses her energy drain life kiss ability, her opponent is under the charm effects and this ability she usually uses only when she is alone with her target.

Using that supernatural ability in a battle would be suicide, especially if spellcasters are attacking remotely with damage spells. Let's not forget that the melee classes could also attack her, as she would be very vulnerable to be holding the grapple. Please, do not think that a succubus is silly and weak just because your GM uses it inefficiently. Before using that supernatural ability. A succubus should take care of others do not bother her while she is busy draining levels to her victim.

In addition she could perhaps use a ring of mind shielding to hide her true alignment and thoughts to the opponent. Not to mention that if the victim is under the effects of dispell magic spell, she could have access to the thoughts of her victim even though previously she was protected by spells like mind blank.

Would the spell 'true form' work on a Succubus?

Yes. The True Form spell works, also Reveal True Shape spell works too, and a Antimagic Field. The True Seeing spell works too.

But if the succubus is using a mundane disguise then that strategy does not work.

Some smart succubus avoid using their Change Shape (alter self) because this supernatural ability can be detected sometimes by the Arcane Sight Spell and the Detect Magic Spell.

Succubi have a very high charisma, so they can disguise themselves without using their Change Shape ability.

You can easily fool the Detect Demon spell if a succubus uses a Ring of Mind Shielding or if she is under the effects of Mind Blank spell, and she uses a mundane disguise, it will be very difficult to detect. She could easily go through an anti-magical field and no one would notice. I also know how to deal with problematic spells like Protection from Evil and many others that can be annoying for an inexperienced succubus.

A succubus can avoid being easily detected, if instead of using her charm spell-like ability, or her suggestion spell-like ability, she uses her Bluff and Diplomacy skills to convince and manipulate others, it is less risky in that way since others can not detect your manipulation using spells like Detect Evil, Detec Magic or Detect Charm.

For her supernatural abilities of Profane Gif, she could use scrolls of the Misdirection spell or Magic Aura spell to hinder her detection.

I have a lot of experience playing as Succubus (Monster as PC) in both Dnd 3.5 and Pathfinder. I already know all the tricks that other players often use to detect a succubus, and I know very well how to frustrate them. That also includes all the strategies that other players usually apply against Doppelgangers and other shapeshifters.

Unfortunately, most GMs are not familiar with how to play properly as a succubus, which usually ends in the death of the succubus.

Many GMs and players do not know how to react and use their social skills properly against Paladins, Clerics, Spellcasters, Rogues, Assassins, Inquisitors or Demon Hunters when they are controlling a succubus as an NPC or as a PC, especially if they are in a difficult and complicated situation where the succubus is being confronted and is in danger.

I do not know if it might be necessary to make a guide on how to correctly use a succubus and avoid dying due to carelessness and ignorance. I have observed many times how this monster should be extremely difficult to kill because of all its abilities, ends up being killed very easily and effortlessly, due to ignorance of how to play with it properly.