Quote: There is no mechanism in the rules for having a surprise round mid combat. Also, consider if the instead of a fighter attacking the orc, its another rogue. Frick engages the orc in melee, frack hides in the bushes. Frack waits till the fight starts, pops out of the bushes. Since you're Declaring the orc to be flat footed both Frick AND Frack can sneak attack him. sure it is. page 178 PCR. under suprise. now for including it in the middle of combat. if your players are fighting against a group in one direction and get out manuvered and the second group of mobs(that the players didnt know about) comes up from behind roll percetion if you make it all is well if you fail then you are flat footed to the newcomers only. they get one surprise round that runs concurrently with the ongoing combat. I also stated only flatfooted against the stealthed character.there are examples where a debuff/buff works for only one character. protection spells being het most prolific. but some class features as well though i haven't seen the cavalier so i don't really know the wording of his challenge ability but isn't it a buff or debuff versus the cavalier himself. Quote: The orc also looses his ability to make attacks of opportunity. So, as you're ruling it, the rogue could run up without cover OR stealth and hit him with a melee weapon in a partial charge. Because the orc is flat footed, he can't do anything about it. no not running up though rereading it i can see how that could be interpreted. stealthing to flank would depend entirely on the conditions of the environment. and require another stealth and perception check. to see if it succeeds. charging in as a rogue that would be ok because the rogue normally doesn't have a great ac doesn't it lower his ac by 2 when he charges. also if a rogue charges id have to say no sneak attack damage.but specifically the op was talking about a ranged attack. that i can see him getting his sneak attack on. Just because you loose your dex when you are flat footed does not mean that you are flat footed every time you loose your dex.
yeah i miss typed on the feint.i meant the dex denial. Quote:
so if a rogues is stealthed and attacks he never gets his sneak damage in your game? Quote: but using the current situation the would it be better to consider the Orc surprised by the rogue, there for denied Dex for one attack for sneak attack damage. he gets one action then goes into the normal initiative rotation on the next round of combat. The rogue either rolls initiative at the beggining, or comes in at the top of the round. Its not fair to give the rogue the possibility of going twice before anyone can react to his presence. i would consider this a wrong assumption. considering that surprise consists of one standard action on the part of the attacker side of things. as well as denying the orc his Dex for one partial action to the rogue only. the orc looses nothing but his Dex bonus for one action. that can be an attack when the rogue comes out of stealth.unaware target is flatfooted. under the surprise. the orc is unaware of the rogue. so for one action he is flatfooted only in relation to the rogue. just because his party members are in combat does not mean a stealthed character is in combat. but i see the two action argument. so you have him come in at a specific initiative whenever he goes that is the initiative he is stuck with.
BigNorseWolf wrote:
then what about feint ability it makes your opponent flat footed to you. and i agree you can't fight while in stealth; but in this case he was in stealth then attacked.( i know it seems like semantics but it really isn't.) he would be come out of stealth as he attacked but the better option for the player in question would be to stealth to flanking position then attack.but using the current situation the would it be better to consider the Orc surprised by the rogue, there for denied Dex for one attack for sneak attack damage. he gets one action then goes into the normal initiative rotation on the next round of combat.
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