Smizzlestix's page

The big worry, of course, is whether those builds are viable at all levels. You don't get a feat until level 4, after all. You don't get your fighter archetype until level 3. On the other hand, it seems intentional that the first few levels should get pretty quickly - and are even perhaps deliberately less defined, so that you have a few levels before really having to decide where to focus one's build. I'll wait to see how that plays out.

If I recall correctly, experienced players are advised to start at level three so they can just incorporate their archetype straightaway. This also makes the first level up an interesting situation, as you can take a multiclass level, or stay in your class and get bonus attribute points, or stay in your class and take a feat. Even if you start at level one, however, the first two levels are really, really quick.

An added - and likely intentional - benefit of having archetypes kick in at class level three is that it limits abusive multiclassing. Whether you start at level one or level three, you're going to get your "home" archetype very quickly/immediately, but getting a second archetype takes a very big experience investment, especially when so many class features scale to class level.

I do think the 5E feat system is going to lead to many more human characters, though, as humans can take a feat straight off the bat, and many players are probably going to favor the human's "two ability points and a feat" rubric over the other races' "three ability points" rubric.

Irontruth wrote:

I agree, it's hitting that right balance.

It's one of the things I like about 13th Age. The Barbarian is still the simplest class, but the way classes are designed there is still a choice that I get to make every level to help shape the character.

In 13th Age you get a feat every level (they also compressed the classes to just 10 levels). There are a few general feats, but the vast majority are class specific and basically augment the abilities you already have. Feats are basically a way for you to specialize in one of the things your class does.

I think that was what 5E was going for with hard stat-caps and the "feats or stat increase" scheme. It works a little, and it will work better when more feats get rolled out, especially if there are some class-specific feats. As it stands, however, choices are still probably overly restricted in some classes.

Suichimo wrote:

Wrath wrote:

Stats cap at 22 with best magic items.

Barbarians can actually hit 24 in Str and Con. I'm not sure HOW they'll do it, since the ability comes at 20, but they can.

The bonus strength from Rage essentially doesn't count towards the ability cap.

The Barbarian level 20 class feature is a +4 bump to both Strength and Conditioning, as well as an increase in the stat-cap for those traits from 20 to 24.

Thus, if your Barbarian has 20 strength and 20 conditioning when he reaches level 20 - which he assuredly will - then he bumps to 24 in both stats. And that is independent of the rage bonus to damage.