Vinroot the Drunken Treant

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Let us not derail this topic.

If you wish to discuss or accuse me of my ideas, do so via the private messages.


thejeff wrote:
SigniferLux wrote:

Banning a word because "it reminds me of" is one step before slavery. If your character is raped, he/she has to react accordingly. You are not roleplaying yourself. No one raped you, no one killed you, no one slashed you, no one fireballed you.

Words are what those who hear them understand them to be. An African friend of mine was calling me "Whitey" and i have been calling him "Blackey" for a long time while we were roleplaying. Neither i enslaved him, nor did he.

Try calling random Africans you meet on the street "Blackey" and see how quickly you make friends. What you can do among your close friends is different from what's acceptable in a public space.

And this is a public space.

More importantly, if you had a player who had been raped and reacted badly to the start of a rape scene of her character, how would you respond? Just push on regardless? Tell her she has to react accordingly?
If you'd started the rape scene and a player told you "I was raped. I can't handle this." would you really tell her "If your character is raped, he/she has to react accordingly. You are not roleplaying yourself. No one raped you, no one killed you, no one slashed you, no one fireballed you."

Cause that's a pretty nasty approach.

I believe Sissyl answered to the biggest part of your post.

As for the personal question, i will answer. If she was really and unjustifiably raped, i would ask her if she wanted to talk about it, and through this, try to help. If she didn't qualify for the above, or refused to talk about a cooperative way with reasoning, then i would also stop playing with her.

I have previously once have a PC and female player (actually, two at the same scene) get raped. It resulted purely from their actions. After talking with them, we said that what happened is logical, they just don't want me to describe it (like i like to do at every gore scene).

Before you begin writing the sign of "bad person" above my head, answer this question to yourself:

If i went up to the BBEG's face and told him i hate him and want to kill him, and the BBEG kills him, if i cry about "i am always losing at my life, i don't want to lose, etc." would you let me go on, rewind the scene, and let me God-mode kill him?


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Morain wrote:

I for one am for free speech. This banning of words is just wrong. 100% of the time in all circumstances.

The only problem I can see is people will say things on the internet they wouldn't normally have the guts to say to someones face.

I will second this. People need to understand the difference of in-game and out-of-game.

Speaking from personal view, i have lost my father. Still, i use "fathers" in my background, and my "fathers" have died horribly, have turned to liches, have become arch-villains, have killed my character, and all Hell of things. Half of their stories of what they became were even designed by the ST.

Banning a word because "it reminds me of" is one step before slavery. If your character is raped, he/she has to react accordingly. You are not roleplaying yourself. No one raped you, no one killed you, no one slashed you, no one fireballed you.

Words are what those who hear them understand them to be. An African friend of mine was calling me "Whitey" and i have been calling him "Blackey" for a long time while we were roleplaying. Neither i enslaved him, nor did he.

I could start a whole discussion about slavery and rape, but these forums are dedicated to another subject, on which i will focus.

For the forums part, the moderators have created them. It is their "home", and they set the rules. Whoever doesn't like this, can just not visit the forums again.

As for my direct reply to the OP. You must understand the differences of words, beliefs and actions.

If your kid "raped a few kobolds" with his critical, then he is just using a different word to express something. It is his/her choice of wording and the only thing i see would be right to do is to talk with him/her about it, not ban it. Children tend to do what their parents don't allow them to.

If your kid actually like raping people on the street, then you need to teach him about it, not just stop him from using the word.

If your kid really raped someone, then he/she really needs professional help.


Brain in a Jar wrote:
SigniferLux wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
Oh lord, I would not enjoy that at all. The reason I play the game is to get away from the limits I have in real life, not to have them thrown at me when I'm trying to have fun.

I have heard this arguement many many times, and it can go for hours non-stop with neither side being right.

I will tell you that people will use this out of boredom to RP, you will tell me that you should roleplay a bit what you say and then roll, i will tell you that then you can actually bluff a citizen that he is a chicken from space, you will say that i should put restrictions and grant penalties or bonuses according to what one says, i will tell you players will find this unfair, and goes goes goes on...

So you make the players "role-play" instead of using Bluff, Diplomacy, Sense Motive etc. How exactly is that fair? Unless you also...

Do you also expect the Fighter or Barbarian to actually fight or "role-play" breaking down doors etc?

How about the player with Knowledge(Planes),(Religion), (Arcana), do you force them to memorize facts and info for those skills?

I could go on.

Why do you think its a good idea to force players into roles that they might not be good at in real life? Perhaps that shy person always wanted to be a cool secret agent type of person, this game allows them to do so. He could take rogue and focus upon all those skills. But wait you make him role-play it and try to convince "YOU" not the npc of his bluff, diplomacy etc.

Your terrible.

Thank you.

Actually, having played some time, i have only seen the "i roll bluff to convince him he is a chicken, look i got a 80 (easily)" and "i told him this elegant lie but i have to roll for bluff and i am a barbarian".

You will answer: Yes, but barbarians are not supposed to be able to bluff as good as rogues.

And i will tell you that this means that the social characters you can only play are bards and sorcerers.

All players can speak and shy players will either not play or roleplay, if you go to a game just to stand at the corner and roll dice, then there are nice wargames for you.

To mention what a friend of mine said:

"You roll diplomacy to convince him to get a 10% raise at selling prices? He is a master trader, i am rolling his +50 bonus to diplomacy for you to give him all your belongings for this stonish stone which will aid you once in your adventures and will deal 1d3 damage. It's really a good trade he says."

Since then my perceptives changes a lot.


DracoDruid wrote:

Hey there!

My suggestion (and my house-rule):

1) Give ALL classes with 2+INT skill points 4+INT instead

2) Merge CLIMB, SWIM and JUMP into ATHLETICS (Soften Fall remains in Acrobatics)

3) All classes with Climb & Swim as Class Skills receive ATHLETICS instead
(+ the Paladin. Anyone an idea why the Paladin got left behind on these?)

4) Barbarians lose Acrobatics (they had it only because of Jump I believe) and gain Profession instead (they are the only ones without it and there ARE some professions that do fit the barbarian. Besides, its totally underpowered so who cares...)

That it.

You are welcome to check the rest of my house-rules here.

Hmm... These rules semm like they are complicating more the matter of skills instead of simplifying it.

1) I kind of like the idea of fighter classes having less skill points per level that, let's say, a monk who in his life as a monk, no matter the path he chooses, will learn a few skills.

2) Actually jump is good to be part of acrobatics. I always think of Olympic games when i think about physical skills so, comparing to them, one who can tumble can also jump high or far.

3) Yes, this is a good idea indeed. I won't dissagree.

4) I already give them the profession as class skill if they want (and if they have a reason to have it from background, or they can just pay a background trait for it) but to me it seems reasonable for barbarians to have acrobatics as a class skill. Acrobatics need not be elegant as we imagine it. Like, tumbling could either be a monk-like roll or a swat-like roll.

EDIT: Hmm, i checked out your link, and i really, and i mean REALLY, like your generic armor and weapons homebrew, though the others about fighter and rogue i did not really like. I am even going to employ the generic rules to my games.

Ascalaphus wrote:

I would want to merge some skills that overlap;

Profession(Engineer) and Knowledge(Engineering)

Craft(Calligraphy) and Profession(Scribe), together with the forgery-aspect of Linguistics.

There's also a case to be made for merging Diplomacy and Bluff, because it's odd that you would be much better at lying than convincing people when you're telling the truth.

Actually i perceive profession and knowledge (or perform or craft) as having different effects:

Knowledge Engineering would be that one know lots of recipes and blueprints, can recognise architecture etc. but can't actually himself craft something, only direct others to do so.

Profession Engineer is the builder guy. He knows little of theory and more of practicallity, like he knows that if you mix these two things is bad, but barely from experience (as such a wisdom skill). He can actually craft what others with knowledge tell him.

Craft and Perform Engineering could really not exist i believe.


Instead of spellcasting i would add (since i believe you are trying to do a no abilities, just real jack of all trades) some sneak attack (1d6 per 3 or 4 levels), ability to use all simple weapons and light armor at 1, martial weapons medium armor and light shields at 7, all exotic weapons heavy armor and heavy shields at 14, half his level in the use magic device skill and prestidigation at will.


Kyonko wrote:
Hmm, I take it that you've looked at the skill set up for 4th D&D? Might help.

I did and it was where i got the idea of Athletics from. I generally prefer less skills that do more things and that are keeping balance between physical skills for martial classes, mental skills for spellcasting classes, while keeping the rogue/bard jack of trades.


Cheapy wrote:
Oh lord, I would not enjoy that at all. The reason I play the game is to get away from the limits I have in real life, not to have them thrown at me when I'm trying to have fun.

I have heard this arguement many many times, and it can go for hours non-stop with neither side being right.

I will tell you that people will use this out of boredom to RP, you will tell me that you should roleplay a bit what you say and then roll, i will tell you that then you can actually bluff a citizen that he is a chicken from space, you will say that i should put restrictions and grant penalties or bonuses according to what one says, i will tell you players will find this unfair, and goes goes goes on...


Wildebob wrote:

While I understand your rationale for some of those changes, I feel like you might have gone a bit overboard. I could see Handle Animal and Ride merged, and combining Swim with Climb makes sense to me, but your Psychology skill is too much. Perhaps just Diplomacy and Bluff together? Sense Motive should be separate and Intimidate seems more like STRENGTH of personality while Diplomacy and Bluff seem like FINESSE of personality.

One of my biggest skill beefs is with Linguistics. I am hugely against including forgery with languages. I speak several languages and I can't forge a passport. In my games, Forgery and Linguistics are separate.

Well, in the way i use these skills, they are not worth putting ranks into. As i said i use them only for issues that cannot be roleplayed, like bluff for feinting, but not bluff to convince someone you are a prince in disguise or something. I prefer having my players roleplay this.


Yes Carbon, but what i am saying is that they are situational. How many times are you really going to use climb?

And, even if you do, it will most likely be to climb mountains to reach far regions. By having a rope and some other equipment you can do it easily without spending any ranks in it, as no DM will ever tell you "you failed your climb, you fall and die".


Problem is, wood is more of a "living matter" that others mentioned.

The Asian idea of the five elements is of a more spiritual nature that the common one, so i think this could not be possible.

You could make wood a part of earth plane though, or maybe a part an admixture of earth and water.


Actually the bonus from being a class skill still applies, like for wizards the class skill bonus would apply when they roll Athletics for flying and flying manuevers but not when climbing.

EDIT: Cheapy, yes, i believe so, and that would even more favor wizards. I am trying to find a way for martial classes with fewer skills per level to be able to take skills like climb and not think that they are wasting their skill points.


Why should i?


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So, i was browsing through forums and came to see the same thing that was bugging me about skills lately.

Some of them are worthless. Although i like roleplaying and i always run games based on in instead of combat oriented ones, i have found out that some skills exist only for rare and specific situations.

I find it ridiculus to see wizards who have points to spare for swim and climb, while fighters "cannot actually swim".

So, i ended up to these:

- Swim + Fly + Climb = Athletics

Why: Swim is really situational and heavily depends on whether the campaign is based on a world with lots of water and adventures near water or not.

Climb i find really situational too. Mostly useful for world of low magic, where you can't have fly as 3rd level spell and feather fall as 1st.

Now Fly, this is a skill i never understood it's existance. Unless you are playing in a really high magic world, where you can be a winged creature or have 30 wands of fly with you i see no purpose for it.

- Handle Animal + Ride = Handling

Why: They are both identical and none is worth if the DM is not adding a lot of animals that are not "for xp". And, seriously, unless you have a special mount, riding a default horse with, like, 10-20 hp is two arrow shots worth and you go flying.

- Also i personally prefer to roleplay how players try to convince pcs and such so i will add:

Intimidate + Sense Motive + Diplomacy + Bluff = Psychology

Why: I primarily use those for their basic non-rp uses (like diplomacy for fast-talk, bluff for feint, etc.).

- How i use them: Putting a rank in one of these is like putting a rank in the whole group, though you use each individual's modifier and wheter it's a class skill, you got a skill forcus on it, etc.

Excuse me for the long post but i would really like some opinions on these.