Shroomy's page

The campaign I'm playing in is looking for some new players. We meet on Mondays at Pegasus Games @ 5:30 PM and usually go to nine. We currently have three players and just got to 3rd level: an eladrin artificer, a dragonborn fighter, and a human star pact warlock. We're definitely looking for someone who wants to play a character who can deal a lot of damage (we're a bit deficient in the area) and who has invested in Diplomacy training (a bit of an oversight, but then we all met on RPG.net and created characters separately). Post here with your email and I'll get you in touch with the DM.

Someone over on EN World pointed this out, you can download an 11 page pdf that describes the drow, genasi, and swordmage.

Link

The first in the series was posted tonight, featuring Beleth, the Prince of Imps. You can read it here. IMO, its full of awesome.

Its up:

Here

Clark Peterson kicked off an interesting thread on EN World, which you can read in full here. Here's the first post (there's a lot more):

Sure, I dont have all the rules, but seeing these 4E monsters is getting me excited!

Scott Greene and I have been going crazy making monsters. 4E is SO much easier and so much more liberating from the standpoint of monster design. The exception based design is awesome. The monsters, in my view, are far and away better in 4E. You can actually give the monsters fun powers without having to worry about making everything match some spell power. And no cheesy skill points. Ugh! DMs will be able to put monsters together so much faster. And now all the interesting monster flavor can actually be translated into combat.

I love it! I am so geeked.

Scott and I have already done the conceptual mapping out of about 50 or more monsters (we have a list of 250). We are finding the theme of the monster and the things we want it to do. We are thinking through impact on movement, threshold triggers, cool powers, ways a monster is different. There is no need for another undead that just has more hit points--but if it has different powers or abilites, then that is a cool monster. We've even been updating some older monsters. Just for kicks, today he and I updated the Bonesnapper. I updated the Charfiend from the old Creature Collection. Fun, fun, fun!!!

I dont know what the new GSL will hold, but I promise you this: Necro WILL have a monster book out for early 4E. Guaranteed. 200+ monsters. Hardback. Kick ass. Fun stuff. New stuff. Not just retreads, though you all know that if WotC will let us (either via compatibility with the OGL or by special permission) we will update the older monsters that are cool that get left behind.

Scott and I are in design overdrive right now. We cant stat or power them all out, but we can concept them, and that is a big first step. And he and I are doing it furiously.

And we are having more fun than we ever had in 3E.

Monsters ROCK in 4E! My hat is off to the people at WotC for how they did monsters.

Clark

I haven't designed any monsters yet in 4e, but Clark's comments confirms much of what I thought monster design would be like. It looks like I'm going to have to dip into my banking account for his promised book!

This is courtesy of Mike Shea who is live blogging the event with his iPhone:

D&D insider
Online rules database. Character visualizer. Character sheet online. Dnd game table. Limited bonus tiles and virtual minis. Virtual minis non random microtransactions. No tie between physical and virtual tiles. Ebooks. No ebooks. Rule database instead. PDFs will be available for cost. 18 minutes ago

More insider
E-adventures online adventures with tiles and minis. Lots of stuff…how much… 24 hour pass to play for players who do not subscribe. Samples and trials available. Online character sheet. Editable PDF for free. 2d tile mapper available for free. Price…14.95 monthly, 12.95 six months, 9.95 yearly 3 seconds ago

Yeah, I think I can probably part way with $9.95 a year.

In the thread started by Ari Marmell, we have a description of the 4e playtest from someone (not me - Shroomy) who is not directly affiliated with WoTC:

http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=4019147&postcount=91

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derren
Sorry if that sounds offensive, it is not intended this way (but I seem to attract flamewars whenever I talk about 4e).

I am a bit disappointed about this information because it basically just repeats what the designers said. "Combat is simple, combat is cool". I know that by now.
If anything, it just further increases my fear that 4E will focus only on combat and remove
any non combat information about monsters. And judging from the Pit Fiend discussions I am not alone with this fear.
Sadly this blog entry seems to further confirm that in 4E monsters will only be XP containers with combat stats. If you want them to use to something besides combat it requires houseruling (=preparation).

I just hope that Combats in the real game are really exiting, because the 4E Pit Fiend doesn't look exiting at all (one trick pony. Protect yourself against fire and this guy is harmless. And just 3 possible actions? It will get boring very fast as the players will always know what to expect).

Well, this quote got me to chime in here, as I just got my go ahead to talk a little about playtesting. And since there's no way I can profit from my blurbage, there should be no lingering doubts about whether it's because I'm looking for a future gig. Although anyone who even suspects that of Ari should be ashamed of themselves.

For those of you who don't know me, I'm John Rogers. I write the Blue Beetle comic book for DC, wrote and produced the pilot for a TV version of Warren Ellis' Global Frequency, and I occasionally write movies. I'm not a game designer, but primarily a writer in multiple formats. I only mention this because some of you have been looking for feedback from a non-designer, and so you can evaluate my opinions in the context of how I use the game.

4E is the edition that promotes storytelling to primacy in the gameplay.

It does so by streamlining the rules -- by giving you cleaner, more relevant information for the situations when you actually need information. My first thought when I read the ruels was "Hmm, somebody at WOTC got a hold of The Paradox of Choice ." There are multiple levels of choice in playing the game and building the characters, but now there only mechanics for those choices for when they are mechanically relevant.

Don't think "simple." Think "clean."

I think the reason there's so much buzz around 4E combat is because that's where the most massive fun-change has come in, and so it naturally dominates discussion and perception. By the time my NDA playtest group got through our first session, we'd (unintentionally) fought three massive combats in one four hour session, many multiple opponents each time. When we finished we all kind of sat back, glassy-eyed, and went "wow." Except for the rogue. He was punching the air and cackling "More stabby! MORE STABBY!"

Because 3E combat had gotten so ... er .. gunky, combat's the first thing you notice when playing 4E. It's hard not to talk about it. A bit like if you bought a new car and got it up to 250 mph. The fact that it has a great interior, amazing safety features and a kick-butt stereo never really comes up in your first conversations about the car.

There are mechanics in place in the rules, separate from the combat rules, to fill in the non-combat tools of a PC/NPC/monster. Stat blocks are there for when they're needed -- when you need to look at stats. In a block. Fast. Like, during combat. Not only that, as the DM I felt I had all the info I needed for the bits I needed help with (combat) but the freedom not to be bound by unnecessary information when we were roleplaying. That's what prompted me to post -- the above gentleman's concern that "If you want [monsters] to use to something besides combat it requires houseruling (=preparation)." What is that "something" besides basic combat? Roleplaying, right? What in that stat block actively contradicts any roleplaying, and more so, what more in the stat block do you need to use it in a story? Each monster (as I understand it) will come with well-nigh a full page of flavor text in the MM. That should be the base for the non-combat-y bits, while the stat block is the wrench you use for the combat-y bits.

That's why, as a writer, the edition tickles me pink. No more rummaging about for the appropriate monster with the appropriate trained skills and appropriate background to fit my plot -- or adjusting the fiddly stats of cool monsters to wedge them into my PC's level and story setting. No more building NPC's for hours so they not only do what I want them to do, they also have every fiddly bit necessary to work but that I'll never, ever access in-game. Enough detail to guide, never so much to cripple.

As far as simple/boring combat -- that Pit Fiend? He's elite, so there's going to be two of them, summoning in multiple other high level monsters with their own funky abilities, all set in a matrix against the multiple combat powers and spells of your five own high-level NPC's. While some people seem disappointed by the lack of options in this situation and somehow see MORE prep here, the prospect of running that combat on its own in 3E would make me, as a DM, throw up in my mouth. With 4E, I'd have no problem running it. And that's why a streamlined mechanic system is important for storytelling, because it's easier to throw a wide variety of stuff at my players, and easier to play out the results of said throwage. Whenever I have more choices in storytelling, for me, that's always a good thing.

In short, my playtest experience for what it's worth:

Less prep time for the DM, with no loss of versatility in combat, and plenty of added value and unexpected strategies. Monster design is superior for what I need, which is versatility in the service of storytelling. Trap design in particular made me want to kiss Dave Noonan on the mouth. While roleplaying, we had more freedom, because when you actually need a roll in the roleplaying you're working off a cleaner system, rather than page-hunting for one of the independently designed subsystems.

Take it as you will.

Just wanted to give everyone a FYI, it looks like WoTC is making progress on the Paizo slush pile. I received two emails regarding adventure proposals I sent in last fall, one was a rejection (oh well) and the other was request for a revised proposal.

Which one do you prefer: A lawful evil oppresive dictatorship or a chaotic evil anarchic hellhole?

Did anyone else find it ironic that there was another letter in Issue 146 continuing the debate about Issue 140's cover? I mean, whoah doggie, the Mephistopheles cover is pretty tame in relation to the adventures in Issue 146, which all feature villains and NPCs steeped in evil and wickedness. This issue probably has the most content culled from the Book of Vile Darkness since #95, not to mention FC:I and Libris Mortis.

I would just like to give a kudos to the decision to incorporate the pertinent game information for non-core feats into the stat blocks instead of separate sidebars. I know that space and wordcount are premium in Dungeon so I can appreciate the change. I mean, knowing everything regarding a feat is nice, but we generally don't need to know the prerequisites, etc. for a feat unless our players plan on taking it or we plan on assigning it to NPCs that we craft. Also, I think it also encourages the usage of non-core feats since authors don't have to worry as much about wordcount. I noticed this trend a few issues back, but #146 really makes use of this new format, especially the STAP adventure and backdrop. Again Kudos!

I purchased Issue 146 at B&N today. Based on earlier comments from the editors and the fact that the issued was sealed, I expected the issue to include a poster map to accompany the Scuttlecove backdrop. None of the issues on the newstand seemed to include a map. I thought it might be small map included inside the magazine, but there was nothing. Am I missing something? The backdrop article seems to include a lot of sites, but there is no map included.

I'm in the process of re-reading AoW before I go to bed, and I'm currently at the "Champion's Belt." I know I have my favorite moments from the AoW, but I began to wonder what were the contributing author's favorite moments from the adventures or backdrop articles they wrote. Would the contributors like to reveal their favorites in this thread?

I love designing adventures, but as I do so, I've noticed that there are some monster niches that are covered very well in any official manner. I just thought I'd write some of them up to see what the general reaction to them would be:

Plant Monsters - Older versions of D&D were rife with plant monsters, but I think they are somewhat lacking in the 3.5 era. Just take a look at 1e MMII or BECMI D&D AC9, both of which are full of plant monsters.

Giant Animals - Seriously, I think 3.5e needs more giant animals. A majority of the monsters from 1e that are not updated to the current edition are giant animals. Giant/dire animals are useful in a variety of ways: they make excellent low and mid-level opponents, especially in more civilized areas, and they could add more options for animal companions.

Epic Monsters that Are Not Unique Outsiders or Dragons - I would like to see a couple of these...

Freshwater Threats - Most aquatic threats are tailored for saltwater bodies of water. That's great, but I'd like to see some freshwater threats too...

Desert Monsters Not Based on the Middle East or North Africa - Maybe something from the American Southwest, Sub-Saharan Africa, Australia, and Central Asia?

What do you guys thing?

The imminent release of the Magic Item Compendium has spurred some debates over at ENWorld regarding the core magic items in the DMG. Man, I never really thought much about it, but most of the core magic items are way overpriced for the benefits you receive or they are just plain boring. My dissatisfaction reached new heights last night when I was trying to equip a low-level villain with something not only appropriately thematic, but also interesting.

Dungeon does a fairly good job of incorporating some non-core elements into its adventures, especially monsters, base classes, prestige classes, and feats. However, I think new magic items and spells are under-represented in the pages of Dungeon. Over at ENWorld, James Jacobs acknowledged the need to sometimes incorporate newer spells into the adventures, but I think the same thing should apply to magic items (at least of the non-artifact variety). I looked through the last five issues, and with the exception of two AP adventures, only one adventure had a non-core, non-artifact magic item (that one was "Diplomacy").

I bought issue 144 at Borders last night and read all three adventures (and I skimmed the Bargle Critical Threat), and Paizo has produced another outstanding issue. Just some quick comments on each adventure:

"The Muster of Morach Tor" - Before I read this adventure I thought to myself "Do I really need another invade the lizardfolk lair adventure, I already have Encounter at Blackwall Keep?" After reading it, my answer is affirmative. Though set in the Forgotten Realms, the adventure is easily portable and it has fairly high stakes for a 4th level adventure. I really liked how Russel Brown spent time physically differentiating the two main lizardfolk and their equipment; I also liked how he dipped into FR material that is still easily portable. My favorite part of the adventure has to be the blind, giant crocodile; I absolutely love new twists on existing creatures, so making it blind, granting it tremorsense, and the Blind-Fighting feat was very cool.

"The Lightless Depths" - F. Wesley Schneider and James L. Sutter continue with their distinctly creepy streak displayed in their earlier collaboration "Shut-In" (and in Schneider's DCC Cage of Delirium). The STAP continues to surprise me both the variety and the quality of its component adventures. Beyond the vivid disgustingness of diseased troglodyte religious fanatics and a city built from quasi-living flesh, I really loved the role-playing and diplomatic aspects of the adventure. However, I hope the DMs of paladin players are especially kind since the PCs will potentially make alliances with a dragon turtle, a troglodyte cleric, and an aboleth. Finally, the interlude at the mongrelfolk city was both unexpected and fantastic.

"Diplomacy" - This is perhaps my favorite adventure of the entire issue. It is a strong role-playing adventure with interesting NPCs that have clearly drawn personalities and motivations, that does not shirk on the action. I particularly loved the care and attention given to Zin, the tertian modron, and his extremely logical monologues. I could picture delivering that dialogue verbatim in a deadpan monotone and I couldn't help but chuckle. My one complaint is that the hook that draws the PCs into the conference on the side of Elysium is pretty weak, though by the 18th level of a campaign, I think a DM could compensate with something more appropriate.

Also, one other thing, I see that the modron in this adventure was changed from an outsider (in the MotP web enhancement) to a construct. Was this purposeful? I only wonder not only because of the statistic changes, but because the text mistakenly refers to Primus as "lord of the inevitables," so I thought this may have been some sort of a late substitution that resulted in some confusion.

In any case, great job to both the writers and editors!

I just got Issue 143 yesterday and I pretty much read the whole thing in one sitting last night. The long and short of it was that I loved it, but it does beg the question, "Does Nicholas Logue Ever Sleep?" I mean, come on, he's almost in every other issue and based on these boards, he's got a lot more in the hopper (and I'm not even considering his freelance work for WoTC).

BTW, I really liked the return to Talantier in Mask of Diamond Tears, though it did invalidate some queries I was mulling featuring ethergaunts and evil doubles. Talantier is a very interesting setting for high-level adventures and I hope it gets a chance to be fleshed out like Richard Pett's the Styes.

I have to say that I'm enjoying the "Savage Tidings" supplement articles in Dragon, much more than the similar "Wormfood" articles that complemented the AoW. Not to say that the "Wormfood" series was bad, in fact several were quite good (in particular the mining office, shopping in Alhaster, and the Wormhunter prestige class), but IMO some were too general (choosing epic feats, planar allies) or too disconnected or tangentally connected to the overall campaign (Manzorian's fountain). Unfortunately, some also struck me as being written at the last minute and were created because a "Wormfood" article was needed that month.

On the otherhand, "Savage Tidings" definitely seems to have been as planned out as the AP itself. I think it is definitely more integrated with the campaign arc, at least with the first two installments (and the third, based on the Issue 350 description). I loved how the affiliations and gazateers expand upon the material in the actual adventures. I was wondering what else you have planned for this series.

Keep up the good work. I'm loving the entire Savage Tide AP.

I don't think I've heard of the masher prior to reading about The Sea Wyvern's Wake (I looked at 1e MM the other day at Half-Price Books and found the entry, so I must have skipped over it) and I only dimly remember the rhagodessa. Who decided to convert these monsters for The Savage Tide? Was it the authors or the editors? And why?

Can we expect some more obscure conversions in upcoming modules? I do love the conversions (though I hope to see a living shipwreck in an upcoming episode of the AP).

You know how the editors have remarked that certain tropes seem to appear at roughly the same time, like there is some sort of weird Jungian collective unconscious shared by all the contributors and would-be contributors to Dungeon. Well, I had that experience after reading Nicholas Logue's "Swords of Dragonslake." Desriya the nymph assassin has more than a fleeting resemblance to a Critical Threat I've been toying with for over a year, Anhedonia, the Lady of the Veils, an evil nymph assassin whose cover is a veiled dancer. D'oh! This one ranks right up there with my South Seas island romp that I proposed last year...

So does anyone else have weird cases of serendipity that they would like to share?

Well, with the release of Issue 141, 2006 has come to a conclusion, so I think it is high time for a favorite of the year thread.

My Personal Favorites

January (130) - "The Palace of Plenty" by Tito Leati.

February (131) - "The Prince of Redhand" by Richard Pett.

March (132) - "Caverns of the Ooze Lord" by Campbell Pentney and "The Library of Last Resort" by Nicholas Logue.

April (133) - "Chimes at Midnight" by Nicholas Logue, "Ill Made Graves" by Kevin Carter, and "Kings of the Rift" by Greg A. Vaughn.

May (134) - "And Madness Followed" by Matthew Hope and "Into the Wormcrawl Fissure" by James Jacobs.

June (135) - "Chains of Blackmaw" by Nicholas Logue.

July (136) - "The Coming Storm" by Greg A. Vaughn.

August (137) - "Siege of the Spider Eaters" by Tim & Eileen Connors and "Man Forever" by Jason Nelson-Brown.

September (138) - "The Weavers" by Richard Pett.

October (139) - "There is No Honor" by James Jacobs and "Requiem of the Shadow Serpent" by Anson Caralya.

November (140) - "The Bullywug Gambit" by Nicholas Logue and "The Heart of Hellfire Mountain" by Dave Olsen.

December (141) - "Swords of Dragonslake" by Nicholas Logue.

Favorite Issue Issue 133

Favorite Author Nicholas Logue

Favorite Adventure TIE "The Palace of Plenty" and "The Prince of Redhand."

Just wondering, if and when we will be seeing any adventures for the bigger capstone systems, specifically epic, psionic, and OA (I know OA just had an adventure, but after the awesomeness of "The Palace of Plenty" I want some more).

I'm working on an adventure featuring flying monkeys, because hey, who doesn't love some poo flinging, evil flying monkeys? I'm using the stats from Wolfgang Bauer's article "Dreams of Arabia: Creatures from Antiquity" (Dragon 334). I was writing down the stat block for my adventure and noticed an error with the stat block, specifically the skills. A flying monkey has the following skills

Balance +11 (+8 racial, +3 Dex)
Hide +12 (+8 size, +3 Dex, +1 rank)
Listen (+1 Will, +1 rank)
Spot (+1 Will, +1 rank)

The problem is with the Climb Skill. The stat block shows that the flying monkey has a Climb +7. This seems too low because according to the write-up, a flying monkey applies its Dex bonus instead of its Strength penalty to any Climb checks. According to my math, a flying monkey should have a +12 Climb check (+8 racial, +3 Dex, +1 rank). The Climb skill modifier in the stat block still applies the Strength penalty instead of the Dex bonus.

My question, which one is correct?

Now that "The Mud Sorcerer's Tomb" has been updated to 3.5e, what other adventures would you like to see updated for 3.5e? Just off the top of my head, I would love to see "Of Nests and Nations" by Randy Maxwell (#13). It is probably the best D&D adventure published in that era, and is in my mind, a masterpiece. I'm not sure how the Known World/Mystara elements would be handled, but the adventure is easily portable to any urban setting. I could easily see it taking place in Sharn.

So, every adventure in the AoW AP featured at least one brand new monster (or conversion of an old favorite). I was wondering if STAP was going to continue this trend, especially the converion of old favorites part, and if so, can you give some hints as to what will be featured?

I was paging through a copy of Urban Arcana at a FLGS and came across a couple of monsters that seemed interesting enough to be included in a Dungeon adventure query. However, I'm unsure of the editor's position on material from Urban Arcana. I'm assuming the demonic cars are out, but a gear golem did appear in Issue 125, so what exactly is the editor's position?

I was paging thru the Dragon article request board and thought it might be a neat idea to open up a similar thread for Dungeon. We pretty much do this already on various threads, but a more centralized place might prove useful. I will get it started:

1. I would like another 1st level Eberron adventure, preferably not set in Sharn.

2. I would like to see some more Eberron material preferably not set in Sharn ("Tension Rising" was a good start).

3. More Styes please!

I was never a huge fan of this adventure, but I happen to own both versions (for the record, I actually like the 3.5e version better than the original 2e version). Tonight, after reading #138, I went back and looked over the #37 version to see what the differences were (besides the obvious updates to 3.5e rules). I was wondering if the editors could speak to the process of updating the adventure.

Best Cartography: Silver Medal to the Shackled City Adventure Path

Best Adventure: Gold Medal to the Shackled City Adventure Path

Best Campaign Setting/Setting Supplement: Gold Medal to the Shackled City Adventure Path

Best Supplement: Gold Medal to Dragon Compendium Vol. I

Best Free Product/Web Supplement: Gold Medal to the Age of Worms Overload

Again, some much deserved congratulations!!!!

Just a quick question, I know the AP authors are working from an outline created by the editors, but I was wondering how much creative freedom the authors are given for their individual parts?

Since I was stuck at my parents house over the holidays with little to do, I brought many issues of Dungeon with me to review and re-read (I got almost all of the issues since 100 with me). I really like the magazine's trend of interlinked adventures, and personally for me, of the three types of interlinked adventures (sequels, three part campaign arcs, and adventure paths), I really like sequels the best. "Raiders of the Black Ice" and "The Clockwork Fortress," or "Death of Lashmire" and "Seekers of the Silver Forge," are great examples. They are very distinct from one another, but also share elements that can be easily interwoven into a campaign. I was wondering if there were any more sequels on the horizon?

I just realized that Issue #129 was the December 2005 issue, so I think its time for a Best of 2005 thread. I was thinking we could each post a list of our favorite adventure from each issue. Maybe when we are finished we could compile a master list revealing what the readers of Dungeon think weas the best adventure of 2005.

To start things out, here is my list:

January 2005 - "Box of Flumph" - Tim Hitchcock

February 2005 - "Wrath of the Abyss" - Greg Vaughn

March 2005 - "The Obsidian Eye" - Nicolas Logue & Brendan Victorson

April 2005 - "The Styes" - Richard Pett

May 2005 - "Final Resting Place" - Michael Kortes

June 2005 - "Salvage Operation" - Mike Mearls

July 2005 - "The Whispering Cairn" - Erik Mona

August 2005 - "Seekers of the Silver Forge" - Tim Hitchcock

September 2005 - "The Clockwork Fortress" - Wolfgang Bauer

October 2005 - "The Hive" - Phillip Larwood

November 2005 - "Shut-In" - F. Wesley Schneider & James L. Sutter

Decebmer 2005 - "Murder in Oakbridge" - Uri Kurlianchik

Here's to a great 2006.

I justed wanted to give some praise to what I consider the best adventure of issue #128, "Shut In." It has many of the qualities that I consider essential to a good Dungeon adventure: it is site-based, but open-ended; it has a good mix of intrigue, roleplaying, and combat; features interesting NPCs; a nice, creepy vibe (not all adventures have to creepy, but I appreciate a vivid atmosphere); and it is easily adaptable (I plan on using it in a future Eberron campaign, where I think it will fit perfectly). I even liked the artwork. Congratulations to F. Wesley Schneider and James Sutter.

I was just reading through the AoW Overload today and I saw that a couple of the adventures, including the finale, do not have assigned authors. I was just wondering if you assigned any authors since the Overload was released.

I was wondering, I have an idea for an adventure that ultimately puts the PCs in a moral grey area. Without going into specifics (basically involves the sacrifice of one for the benefit of the many, but could be a great springboard for an ongoing campaign), how much is too much moral grey area for a Dungeon adventuer? I was wondering both from a reader and an editorial standpoint.

About a month and a half ago my friend reintroduced me to the pleasures of D&D, when he bought the new 3.5 core rulebooks. This was after a 10 year absence from the game. In fact, the last thing I bought for AD&D/D&D was Dungeon #57. Before that, I was an avid collector of the magazine, owning most of the issues between #13 and #57. Recently, when my parents visited me, I had them take the musty magazines out of my old bedroom's closet and bring them with (much to my mother's delight).

For the last two weeks, I've been enjoying all of those old adventures, reacquainting myself with several old favorites and re-evaluating authors whose work I disliked when I was much younger (sorry Willie Walsh, I didn't know what I was thinking, though I'm still a little iffy about bermuda shorts wearing lava mephits). Now I know what happened to Willie Walsh from the Issue 37 thread, and Christopher Perkins is still an active writer for Dungeon, but does anyone know what happened to some of my favorites: Peter Aberg, Paul Cullota, David Howery, Steve Kurtz, Randy Maxwell, and Ted Zuvich? They all seemed to have disappeared in the mid-90s.