| Shon |
Tagion wrote:I guess we can consider 2 people 80 ft out with bows flanking as long as they are on oposite sides huh?No, you still need to threaten in order to help provide flanking, you just don't need it in order to BE flanking.
Isn't the real issue Threaten vs Do? Everyone, including the OP agrees that you must be in a position to threaten with a melee attack. But if you threaten to stab someone, that doesn't mean you DID stab them.
For me, and it's just my opinion I can see both sides of the argument here, it really boils down to that point.
When I first started reading this thread I thought it was ridiculous that the OP could think that you could get a SA off in this situation. However, approaching it with an open mind I can see why he's asking the question.
All of the text says you must THREATEN with a melee attack to be considered flanking. The OP, in his example is threatening the monster, he just never makes good on that threat. The text on flanking says that you do not get the bonus from flanking with a ranged attack, which the OP does not argue.
So, we know for sure that SA is allowed to be a ranged attack. We may not agree when that is to be the case, but we all agree it can be.
We also agree, I hope, that if two people are adjacent and opposite to a monster, with melee weapons out ready to attack, that they are both in flanking position.
So the real point is, if you move in with a dagger looking like you're going to stab some baddie in the ribs, and then instead at the last second, throw your other dagger at his head...should that benefit from SA, assuming said baddie is flanked by a friend to our dagger dude here.
Some of you argue that since you would not get the flanking bonus with the ranged attack, that means the rogue isn't flanking. I can totally see that point, and that's what I thought as well.
However, consider this. If the rogue moved in and throws his dagger, leaving him with a dagger in his hand. It then becomes his buddy's turn. Would the buddy get a flanking bonus with his melee attack?
If he would, then that means you accept that the Rogue with a dagger in one hand is flanking, even though on his turn he didn't conduct a melee attack.
Personally I think that's a really interesting point. I'm not sure I would play it that way, because I tend to think the intent of the rule (based on not getting the flanking bonus) means that for that split second you are throwing the dagger you aren't considered to be flanking.
That being said, I can see the OPs point and I'm not sure that getting mad at him because you don't agree with his idea is warranted. If you really think about, it could be interpreted the way he suggested, even if that isn't the common take on the rule.
-S