Shai-Ren's page

Here is the description:

« Your gaze falls on a creature, filled with icy vengeance or fiery wrath. The gaze deals 1d4 damage (basic Fortitude save). It deals your choice of cold damage or fire damage and gains the appropriate trait. If you already dealt damage to the creature earlier this turn, it also takes 1 persistent damage of the gaze’s type. »

RAW, it seems the persistent damage doesn’t offer a save and as such cannot crit not be reduced. It just happens.

Is it your interpretation as well ?

Once upon a time, the arcane list was the biggest and the most powerful of the four, and it was considered a boon to have access to it. Primal was strong but limited, occult had some strong debuffs but was all over the place and divine was widely considered to be the deal est.

Now they’ve all been buffed and it seems to me arcane is lagging behind.

Occult still has the best buffs and debuffs, some great damzging spells and some healing.

Primal has great blasts, great healing and condition removal, great mal controlling and some more utility.

Divine got the best lift and is now arguably one of the best lists with incredible buffs and healing alongside impressive blasting abilities.

So… what’s the point of arcane exactly ? You have very few specific spells, and the selection, while solid, is lacking specific gems.

Am I the only one disappointed in Arcane ? Shouldn’t they give it some specific spells to give it back some lustre.

I'm currently starting a table where the DM doesn't have the new books and wants to play pre-remaster, and I realized how much some classes have changed since then. I wanted to do a swashbuckler, then remembered that your skills didn't autoscale, that you had to succeed to get panache and that some skills (like one for all) only gave panache on a very hard check.

Basically, now that I've tasted the remaster, I find the pre-remaster one unplayable, to the point where I reflavored a rogue so as not to tear my hair down.

So it got me thinking: what classes got the biggest buffs in your opinion ? What is your top 3 ?

I'd go with:

- Swashbuckler (obviously): gone from nigh-unplayable to fun and engaging
- Cleric: between free font and alignment damage now hitting everybody, they went from good to great (and some great warpriest support and feats as well).
- Oracle: Some people dislike the new flavor and some mysteries got gutted, but going from 3-slot to 4-slot with an almost-extra font of focus point, plus the aforementioned huge buff to divine list, made them a powerhouse.

Honorable mentions:
- Barbarian got free rage and no AC penalty, that's great.
- Investigator got basically free devise stratagem, that's awesome but puts it from garbage to meh
- Witch got an interesting mechanics with her familiar but it didn't go far enough, apart from a few busted builds (hello resentment my old friend).

Yeah, but...
- Sorcerer got some great buffs through blood potencies, and his bonus to damage/heal cannot be poachable anymore, but the loss of crossblooded evolution really hurts.
- Alchemist got buffed or nerfed depending on your group's playstyle

Nothing or nerfed:
- Rogue got basically nothing but they were already awesome
- Same with bard, little to nothing but they didn't need it.
- Same with monk.
- Champion got basically nothing mechanics-wise, although the change in alignments has a real impact.
- Druid was already the bottom of the barrel and got basically nothing, firmly putting it as one of the worst casters, alongside with...
- Wizard, who got nothing as well apart from a dubious school refont.

Hello,

I've been invited yesterday to a new game and I ended up choosing to be a swashbuckler. I played one a few sessions pre-remaster but I'm hardly knowledgeable about this class.

I first wanted to do a Wit swashbuckler for One for all, that is THE FEAT I really want to use. But then I realized it's not wit-specific anymore, and I could go with a braggard.

But when I tried to put this all together, I failed miserably - I'm one feat short of what I'm trying to do (which is be a great braggard while using one for all whenever I can in order to help AND get out-of-turn panache). The problem is, I'm the only one with some dex, so I'll try to be on trap duty and I'll need some modicum of thievery (and it would be great to put some boosts in other useful skills as well).

Please, remember it's a whole campaign going from 1 to 20, so it *should* be enjoyable to play at all levels, not magically come together at level 12 or so.

Here's what I thought (the 1st level is not set in stone but I kind of need the out-of-turn panache and the +2 AC since our fights are usually deadly - and I'll have to take buckler dance at level 10 anyway).

Option 1: No acrobat archetype
1 - Extravagant Parry
2 - Antagonize
3 - Expert Intimidation/Acrobatics
4 - One for all
5 - Expert diplomacy
6 - Vexing Tumble
7 - Master intimidation/Acrobatics
8 - Bleeding Finisher
9 - Master diplomacy
10 - (Change extravagant parry for elegant buckler), Buckler dance

Problem: even with stylish tricks, I'm strapped for skills. I get diplomacy later than I wish, and I have absolutely no boost to put into thievery (or stealth, or anything else for that matter).

Option 2: Acrobat archetype

1 - Extravagant Parry
2 - Acrobat Archetype
3 - Expert Intimidation/Acrobatics/Diplomacy
4 - Antagonize
5 - Expert thievery
6 - One for all
7 - Master intimidation/Acrobatics/Diplomacy
8 - Bleeding Finisher
9 - Master thievery
10 - (Change extravagant parry for elegant buckler), Buckler dance

Problem: Now I have my skills, but I lose Vexing tumble (I know it's not highly regarded but I love it as a Mobility replacement to avoid opportunity attacks) AND one for all/antagonize are delayed a whole 2 levels each, so it comes on its own later.

What looks better for you ? Any other idea ? Any feat I might have missed that could solve my conundrum ?

I *could* do it with Natural ambition, but that means being human and I wanted to do a hobgoblin, for remorseless lash/agonizing rebuke. Should I go with adopted ancestry or some such shenanigans (but then I lose one of those mandatory ancestry feats).

Edit: Hmm, wait, how does that sound ?

Human with versatile human -> Adopted ancestry (hobgoblin)
Ancestry feat 1: Natural ambition (one for all)
General feat 3: Ancestral paragon (remorseless lash)
Ancestry feat 5: Agonizing rebuke

IT SEEMS TO WORK !

I've seen quite a few threads about the guardian (who looks much better now than during playtest) but none about the commander.

What do you all think about what's been revealed ? Are you looking forward to playing one ? Do you like some specific tactics ?

Ravel of Thorns (4th level wood kineticist impulse) states - emphasis mine:

Thorny vines grow in geometric patterns on surfaces in your kinetic aura. A creature that starts its turn in the thorns takes a –10-foot circumstance penalty to its Speeds until it leaves the area. The thorns are hazardous terrain. A creature takes 2 piercing damage each time it moves into one of these squares. If any square the thorns grow on is water or soil, double the hazardous terrain damage for all thorns. If you move, the thorns disappear; new thorns grow at the end of your turn.

So my question is in the subject: what counts as "soil" ?

I guess farmland and forests are definitely soil.
- Is a swamp "water or soil" ?
- Is a hill/mountain considered "soil" (provided you're not in a glacier or quarry of some kind) ?
- Are streets of a small village (where nothing is paved) "soil" ?
- What about a cave or a prison with an earth floor ?

Basically, is "soil" any kind of earth, as opposed to manufactured floors, or is it specific to "places where vegetation is already thriving" ?

Hello,

I've read time and again that psychic are pretty good at DPS (among other things) and I wanted to give it a try in an upcoming game, where we already have a good frontline and heals/buffs, to change from my beloved sorcerers.

The problem is, I'm getting stuck on Pathbuilder, and I cannot fathom how it might work ingame.

From what I gather (and the guides I've read), the two highest DPS conscious minds would be The Oscillating Wave (obviously) and the Silent Whisper (less obviously), with the Tangible Dream as a melee alternative.

But they all seem to have huge drawbacks and I don't understand how they're supposed to be played.

1) Oscillating Wave

It has awesome blasting spells, including Fireball and Howling Blizzard, and even gets support damage from entropic wheel. This would allow me to really lay the hurt on opponents during the unleash phase and maybe get the highest AOE game achievable in the game (by dipping Oracle).

...but
- You have no fuel in the tank. You get 1 or 2 top slots and that's it, nothing more. I thought psychics were supposed to rely on their amped cantrips a lot, but the Oscillating Wave got shafted there (at least damage-wise). Ignition requiring an attack roll makes it a hard pass - and even so, its amped version is barely better than Fire Ray, unless you're willing to go melee. Frostbite got buffed good in the remaster by now requiring a save, and the rider is good, but it's low damage even amped. Your unique cantrips don't deal damage until level 10 (where it's ok to aim but nothing to write about damage-wise).
- Waiting until turn 2 to unleash actually reduces the value of big AOEs like fireball since your opponents will probably be in melee by this time. I would have rated much higher spells like Blazing Bolt (despite the attack roll), divine wrath or the like.

So, although it looks like the best blaster on paper with incredible spike damage, it seems cumbersome and very inefficient to play, especially on long days.

2) Silent Whisper

Now we're talking: you get a great blasting focus spell at level 6. When amped, it's 1d10/level on a big friendly cone. With a little bit of positioning, this means your unleash psyche will probably deal huge damage to all opponents at once (60 feet cone is HUGE). Stupefied is just icing on the fat, fat cake. And it's a focus spell, so you can use it a lot without spending your strained resources. 4th level amped message is also a godsend if you have a big hairy friend. So yeah, looks we have a winner here.

...except it's a mental spell, so you're SoL on mindless opponents - and there are a lot of them. And the Silent Whisper spell list is incredibly s**~ty, both from a blasting and utility point of view. They're all already on your occult list and, sure, it's good to get heroism for free, but that's about it.

3) Tangible Dream

I don't want to play this character melee so it's out, but I thought about it anyway. Imaginary weapon is a great spell when you're a magus, not so much when you have d6 hp and no armor. Even with an amped shield, it's suicide to go melee unless your DM is really lenient. Astral Rain amped could be a good third action but as such it won't benefit from psyche unleashed. There are a couple good spells on the list but it's not enough to save this conscious mind for me.

So there you go, it's the first time I'm stumped and really don't know how to make this class work. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, maybe psychic isn't built for damage, but I'd love to have some advice from those who actually successfully played a psychic.

Am I wrong in my assessment ? How did you do it ? Are you satisfied with the mechanical results ?

Thanks a lot, it's driving me crazy, I've built basically all classes with a degree of success but this one totally eludes me ^^

Hello,

I'm currently playing a warpriest in a new AP, and I'm a bit disappointed by the low number of buffs the divine list has. I thought it was one of the best for buffing purpose, but a lot of great buffing spells aren't in it.

For instance, it lacks enlarge, invisibility, haste, mountain resilience, longstrider, blur, mirror image, disappearance and so many others that could make the life of a martial easier.

Some can be gained back through a deity (Ragathiel giving haste, for instance) but it's only one or two spells, and it sort of shoe-horns you into the same deities.

So far, here are the combat buff spells I found:
- Sanctuary (ok i guess)
- Bless (which is certainly good)
- Benediction (upcoming)
- Infuse vitality (only good on undead though)
- Protection (great, especially heightened)
- Resist energy (situational)
- Heroism (good at higher levels)
- Organsight (ok dps when specced in medicine, like power attack I guess)
- Warding agression (great effect but missing your target makes it go poof)
- Whirling scarves (like blur but 1 lvl higher, with a small buff).
- Fly (good when needed)
- Vital Beacon (great for action economy)

And well, that's about it. Did I miss something ? What are your favorite buff spells from the divine list ? I know the days of Clerczilla from PF1 are long gone and you don't have time to stack buffs anyway, but I really miss a lot of the arcane/primal buffs and those I gained don't seem as impactful.

Hello,

Reading the many threads here, I think most - if not all - are in agreement that after the remaster, the wizard ended up being mechanically weaker while other casters like the sorcerer or the oracle thrived.

(Short break to summarize)

When you compare a wizard of any build to an imperial sorcerer, the difference is painful. Sorcerer gets more flexibility, more damage, much better feats, spontaneous casting AND on top of that, better focus spells that allow to raise your DC by up to 3/add 3 to your spell attack roll.

TLDR: Wizards are god-awful and need a huge buff.

(End summarize)

Suggested Fix

In our tables, we tried to fix it by giving all the thesis for free (apart from familiar thesis which stepped too much on the witch's toes. It was a step in the right direction but still wasn't enough.

So we thought about what the wizard was supposed to be: master of the arcane, like the fighter was a master of the blade. Other classes have a lot of special abilities: barbarian has rage, monk has flurry of blows and AC, ranger has hunter's edge and so on and so forth, but the fighter is the king of accuracy.

So here's what we are currently implementing in our tables:

Instead of the current arcane schools, wizards can choose one specific school and gets one proficiency better with it, just like the fighter with his favored weapon. All other spells are at regular proficiency - and cantrips aren't affected either.

So an evoker would start at level 1 with expert proficiency in his evocation spells using slots and trained in all others. Then master in evocation at lvl 7 and expert in all others, and so on, and so forth until lvl 19 where he gets legendary in everything like all other casters (and might get another perk at this time).

We first thought it would be too much but so far it's worked pretty well. +2 proficiency is a big swing in PF2E but it didn't unbalance the fighter and it didn't unbalance the wizard. Moreover, the fighter doesn't care about being extra proficient in only one kind of weapon since he usually won't change his fighting style during an adventure. But even the most specialized wizard cannot always rely on his expertise, since sometimes you need blasting, sometimes you need debuffing and sometimes you need utility.

So far, the schools we chose were mostly modeled on those already existing:

School of ars grammatica: Higher proficiency for all linguistic effects and counteract checks
School of battle magic: Higher proficiency for all elemental blasts
School of civic wizardry: Higher proficiency for all manoeuvers spells, higher wall HP
School of mentalism: Higher proficiency for all mental spells
School of the veil: Higher DC for all illusions

What do you think ?

Hello,

I'm enamored with the necromancer and I've done a few playtests (they're archived in this forum somewhere) but it's true that the thrall mechanism, while engaging, can feel limitating at times.

Some people would love to see the horde fantasy a la diablo, with lots of skeletons and ghouls and ghosts, but we won't have that, because it would clog the battlefield too much and PF2e has always been against that. The best you could do would be a lvl 16 Beastmaster Summoner who's summoning a monster and thus has 4 henchmen on the table.

Some people would love to see bigger and better monsters, like a Skeleton King or a Lich - but that's stepping on the toes of regular summoning.

What I'd love to see, as it would be fun and novel, would be some ways to use thralls as an anchor for your spells. It would also give a few interesting strategic choices like "do I set up a nova round later with the risk that my thralls will get destroyed, or do I use my power now, even if it's less effective ?"

Something like:

BONE SPEAR

A bone spear is created from two of your thralls no farther than 30 feet from each other. Everybody in the line between the two thralls get hit for XXX piercing damage.

DARK TRIANGLE

Every creature in a triangle between three thralls get hit for XXX spirit damage

FORCE SQUARE

A cage of force springs to life, powered by the life of four thralls. The walls are anchored to the thralls, and destroying a thrall destroys the section of the wall.

PENTACLE OF EVIL DOOM

Your five thralls aren't consumed. As long as they're all alive, every enemy in the pentacle is slowed 1/enfeebled/feared/whatever.

Of course, when you're level 1, you can hardly do a bone spear. But when you're level 7, a triangle is usable and so on and so forth.

The idea to anchor some spells to your thralls makes sense in a flavor point of view, it's a different mechanism than what has been done so far, and it turns the necromancer into an - evil, giggling - chess player ^^

Hello,

I tried a couple PFS games lately and I was wondering if people actually liked this kind of adventure.

I probably got bad DMs but the fact that the adventure is meant to be short and done in about 4 hours tops + the fact that characters don't know each other and have no synergy means that:

1) There's little to no RP involved - because the clock is ticking, and nobody cares you're doing this impassionated speech, they just want you to "roll diplomacy" because that's what's written, and anyway what's the point of befriending this barbarian you'll probably never meet again - or maybe in four or five games.
2) There's little to no strategy involved. Since the adventure is supposed to be done with any kind of classes AND not last too long, all fights are insultingly trivial and there's absolutely no sense of danger or accomplishment.

So I was wondering if I was the only one feeling this, if maybe I got unlucky with my DMs (but I don't blame them, they have a schedule), and if some of you have different experiences with PFS.

Hello,

The rules for eidolon says: "Your eidolon can't wear or use magic items, except for items with the eidolon trait."

What of non-magic items ?

For instance, I'd like for my eidolon to take Battle Medicine through the feat skilled Partner - but that's only useful if he can use a healer's kit.

Thanks a lot for your input !

The question is in the title ^^

I was about to play a cloistered cleric for the third time in an upcoming campaign, but a friend is trying me to change for a warpriest - which is a class I never tried.

It looks very interesting and strong on paper, but I'm wondering whether it can work as the sole healer of our group. I'm afraid that, being engaged in melee, I will eat a lot of AOOs (sure, all monsters don't have it, but those that matter usually do) while trying to heal me or my friends or even trying cast down or channel strike. The medic dedication and its benefits are also less interesting since I'll go either board & shield or 2H and so won't have a free hand without jumping through hoops - plus I'm supposed to engage the enemy, not use doctor's visitation to help someone in it.

Restorative strike is good since it loses the manipulate trait, but you have to hit in order to target a friend, and said friend has to be next to your target, which looks to me unusable a lot of times.

I'd also love to get a reach weapon in order to alleviate somewhat the AOO and mobility problem, but favored weapons are far and few between. Apart from Shelyn and a couple others, I'm SoL. I was thinking Ragathiel for the bastard sword, haste and sure strike (plus his DEUS VULT approach looks fun to play) but that means no reach.

I mean, as a Cloistered Cleric, it was pretty simple: nuke or debuff when things are all peachy, heal and battle medicine when things go to hell. Doesn't seem so simple to switch as a warpriest.

In a nutshell, I'm concerned that either I will be a pretty lousy healer, or I'll never have time to strike.

So, did any of you play a warpriest that was also the main healer and can tell me about your experience ? Were you able to heal just fine ? How did you deal with the AOOs ? Did you deal respectable damage ? What was your routine ?

Thanks a lot, I have read various guides about the warpriest and I see how his abilities can be awesome, but I have a hard time picturing a regular fight, like with the rogue being crit by an arrow, while I'm being pinned down by the boss.

Hello and happy new year !

I’m starting a new AP and want to play a cloistered cleric, but the table rules are a bit different: you get free archetype BUT you cannot choose dedicatiion feats with your class feats, only regular class feats.

It’s a pretty interesting take and forces us to delve deeper into the class instead of branching out… but it’s also a bit unbalanced between classes that have great feats and those that don’t. I’m afraid the cloistered cleric is the latter since 90% of the lower level feats seem tailored to warpriest.

Usually, I take a medic, sorcerer or oracle dedication with my lvl 2, 4 and 6 regular feats but now I can’t so I need some help.

I plan on a Classic cleric of Sarenrae, healing with some blasting, with a medic free dedication at levels 2/4/6 then an oracle one at further levels.

This leaves me with my regular class feats to take and nothing really stands out to me. Healing hands is ok I guess but it evens out to a 10% increase to heals. Then… what ? Domain initiate ? Cast down ?

Please help me out, this « no dedication feats with your regular feats » messed up all my builds ^^

Hello and Merry Christmas to y'all (hohoho) !

I guess this question has already been answered but my search in the forum didn't bear fruit, so here goes.

Darkened Forest Form allows you to change to a different shape everytime you sustain the spell. Do you get new temp HP everytime you do this ? Both sides have been argued to death in my group.

Is there an ironclad ruling somewhere or is it only interpretation and GM-dependant ?

Thanks a lot !

It's been a month now that I'm playing an animist and I'm having a blast (haha).

I know a lot of players consider blasting suboptimal, but it's still a viable playstyle, and animist made it even more viable.

DISCLAIMER: This is just whiteroom talk. Of course, no turn will ever be optimal.

Let's see what you get as an animist
- Earth's bile, first and foremost, best DPS for one action in the game (and not only that but it's AOE, and you get persistent damage on a failure)
- Fireball, widely considered to be one of the kings of AOE damage.

This alone makes it really powerful:
At level 5, that's 6d6 + 4d4 (+ persistent) damage. That's an average of 31 + 2 persistent.

The contenders for best blasters so far were Fire (or metal) elemental sorcerer, and psychic.

- A fire elemental sorcerer can output 6d6+3 AOE damage, deal +3 damage on one target, then use his last action for elemental toss (3d8 against AC, which is iffy) or 1-action Force barrage (2d4+2 autohit). That's 24 average AOE damage, +10 average damage on a target with FB or +16,5 on one target if elemental toss hits.

--> Much worse on AOE, a little bit better on one of the targets with FB, significantly better on one target if elemental toss hits.

An oscillating wave psychic with psyche unleashed (so on second round, with its own set of problems) can use fireball and psy burst, and could even have a 2-motes wheel active thanks to a first round spell.

That makes a very respectable 3d4+2 psy burst followed by a 6d6+6+3 fireball. So 30 AOE damage, and 9,5 more damage on a single target.

--> Almost comparable AOE, and more damage on a single target.

So, it looks like so far, animist comes ahead on AOE damage, even comparing the best turn a psychic could have.

But wait, if we agree to give a prep turn to the psychic, then we should give one to the animist. Enters channeler's stance.

Turn 1 Animist: Channeler's stance + Fireball = 6d6+3 damage, average 24 AOE
Turn 2 Animist: Fireball + Earth's bile = 6d6+3+4d4+3 damage, average 37 AOE

Turn 1 Psychic: Fireball + whatever ? + entropic wheel, average 21 AOE
Turn 2 Psychic: As we saw, 30 AOE + 9,5 on a single target.

Turn 1 Fire Sorcerer: Fireball + FB = average 24 AOE + 10 on one target
Turn 2 Fire sorcerer: Fireball + FB = average 24 AOE + 10 on one target

So on turn 2, the animist looks even sexier now. And:
1) The stance will be active the whole fight, so next turns will benefit as well
2) Earth's bile can be activated over and over, while Fire Sorc or Psychic have to spend resources to use that third action.

CONCLUSION
- In easy fights where it's all decided in one or two turns, don't enter channel stance: you'll outDPS everybody anyway.
- In hard fights that might last longer, enter channel stance: you'll outDPS AND outlast everybody anyway.

But that's not all. What if you lose initiative and the opponents are already in your midst ? Fire sorcerer is screwed, Psychic is screwed. But not you, because you're a divine caster, remember ? Starting at level 7, you get Divine Wrath, which after remaster is probably one of the best blasting spells ever (big friendly AOE with sickened). And you can usually still get one or two targets per round in your Earth's bile. So yeah, you can still blast like the blaster you are instead of switching to striking/debuffing.

"Wait, Blue_Frog, what if you have to move ? Then you still need to sustain Earth's bile and you lose this edge against other casters !"

True, true.
Let's assume you have to move turn 1. You can move and fireball, doing as much as a psychic and only 3 less than a sorcerer.

Now the harder part. What if you have to move turn 2 or 3, when Earth's bile is already cast ? A regular caster can go move + spell, you have to go move + sustain + 3rd action, so you might lose some damage.
- If it's later in the fight, your opponents are usually in melee, so most casters cannot blast but YOU can. See how special you are ?
- If you really need to cast a spell, you can drop Earth's Bile and cast it again later for one focus point. Because here's the funny thing: even without the sustain, most caster would KILL to get Earth's Bile, a one-action AOE with respectable damage.
- If you're level 10 or more, just quicken your spell. Because you're awesome, and you can do it multiple times per day.

TLDR: Animists are kings of AOE damage, so far ahead in every situation that it's not even funny.

The ONLY thing that will cut us short is fire resistance/immunity. It's pretty widespread, so it WILL come up. But in such a case, you still deal ok damage with earth's bile, and hopefully you attuned another apparition like Lurker that gives you other options.

I've loved the necromancer at level 8, but some people have pointed out that it's a very different game when you can create two thralls per action and when you can use them for AOOs.

So how does a necro fare at lower levels ? We tried a severe encounter at level 4.

Our team:
- Polearm fighter
- Thief Rogue
- Tempest druid with an wolf
- Me, Bone necromancer.

We got a tip that some people were doing some kind of demonic ritual in a ramshackle house just out of town. When we got here, we found outside the bodies of the owners. Rogue took his bow, fighter drew his guisarme - just in time, as four shapes appeared from the darkness.

(Nobody did a recall knowledge, but it was 2 Abrikandilu (A1 and A2) and 2 Pusks (P1 and P2). 2 lvl 4 and 2 lvl 2 monsters).

Initiative order
- Rogue
- A1
- P1
- Druid
- A2
- Me
- Fighter
- P2

Rogue had his shortbow ready and shoots at A2 - and hits. It's a sneak attack for 11 damage. He attacks again and misses, then drops his bow and draws his shortsword.

A1 moves to druid and makes a jaw strike. He crits for a whopping 32 damage and the druid misses his fort save, losing 1 to charisma checks. But it's the least of his worries as he lost 2/3rd of his life in one hit. A1 attacks again with his claw and misses - thankfully !

P1 moves next to me and hits me for 8 damage, then attacks again and misses.

Druid casts 2nd level heal on himself for 22, and orders his wolf to attack A1. Wolf hits for 9, then misses.

A2 moves to the wolf and crits him for 28 damage then hits again with his claw for 12 damage. Wolf barely survives with 4 hp.

My turn. I cast calm emotions, 3 fails and 1 success. The end.

Since we wanted to test the power of the necromancer, we decide to roll back and I don't cast this spell. However, it's a testimony to how powerful the occult list can be, with whole encounters locked by a single spell.

So there, I don't cast calm emotions. Instead, I summon a thrall next to P1 (I hit for 3 damage), I summon a thrall next to A2 to help the fighter flank (I miss) and I summon a third thrall in front of P2 (I hit for 4 damage).

Fighter moves to flank A2 with my thrall and crits for a whooping 34 damage. It was a 18 on the dice so my thrall didn't help but hey, it could have. Fighter hits again with last action and deals 15 damage. Again, the flanking didn't help.

P2 attacks the thrall and kills it, then casts slow on the fighter - who saves.

END OF ROUND 1
So far, I didn't do much but P2 lost an action, P1 and A2 were flanked, and I have two thralls in play.
Please note that we deliberately rolled back to test the necro further.

ROUND 2

Rogue moves to P1, using my thrall to flank. He crits for 30 damage. P1 is barely alive, and another hit finishes him.

I use Inevitable Return and get one thrall back, go me !

A1 attacks the druid and hits for 19 damage. He casts fear on the fighter who misses his save and is now frightened 2.

Druid casts tempest surge on A2, trying to finish him off before his turn. A2 fails his save and is hit for 17 damage - close, but not enough to kill him. Wolf attacks and misses twice.

A2 crits wolf again and puts him at dying 2, then hits fighter thanks to the frightened 2, for 14 damage. He kills the thrall with last action.

My turn. I cast a thrall next to A2 then use bony barrage, getting all three remaining mobs in it. I sacrifice the thrall next to me to make it party-friendly. P2 critfail, A2 fail, A1 crit succeeds. Damage is 12 so A2 dies, P2 takes 24 damage and A1 is spared.

Fighter tries to trip A1 and succeeds, then attacks and barely hits for 14 damage. Since he's slowed, that's it for him.

P2 rolls a 4 and moves to the fighter, who decides not to use his AOO yet. Maybe he should have, because P2 hits him twice for a total of 16 damage.

END OF ROUND 2
A2 lost an action, and all opponents got hit with a 2P10 friendly AOE, which was pretty nifty at this level - much better than any 2nd level slot, since Sudden blight is a non friendly Fort save and couldn't have been used here.
I got one thrall left thanks to Inevitable Return.

ROUND 3

Rogue moves to A1 who's prone and critmisses, then hits for 17.

A1 stands up, eats an AOO from the fighter for a measly 8 damage. He attacks druid and crits for 30 then hits for 14 - enough to drop his opponent.

I use my last thrall 10 feet from me and next to P2, then use Bone Spear. Sadly, I cannot hit both opponents since they're not lined up.. It hits for 14 damage and drops the pusk. I use Inevitable Return and a thrall pops. For my last action, I consume it and get my focus point back.

Fighter is not slowed anymore. He attacks once and hits for 13 damage then makes a vicious strike that hits for 19 damage.

END OF ROUND 3
14 damage on this round for 3 actions and 1 focus point was disappointing. However, I got 1 point back if the fight drags on (although it won't, so it was merely to test it).

ROUND 4

Rogue flanks with the fighter and attacks 3 times. His first attack hits for 14, that's enough to kill him.

END OF FIGHT.

CONCLUSION
Despite being a severe encounter, this was still a pretty easy fight. True, the druid dropped, but he shouldn't have - and we didn't play optimally since I purposefully didn't use my spells slots. Thus, the rogue and the fighter did most of the heavy lifting.

At low level, the necromancer is still a full caster, with the power to end encounters with a spell slot - and the lack of spells is less glaring than later, since I only got 1 less level 1 and 2 spells than the druid.

However, it's true that the thrall system was more challenging. Without attacks of opportunity, they were less of a threat for the opponents, and I had to work harder to use them. Inevitable Return is
AWESOME at low levels. I didn't pay it much attention at level 8, but a thrall for every killed enemy (once per round) is incredible. Of course, against a solo boss, it won't be as useful - but most fights have at least 2 or 3 opponents so it works great.

Basically, it seems like a necromancer plays a bit like a psychic at low levels, then becomes more powerful at level 6 with AOO and especially at 7 with more thralls.

I just did a few games and a few fights with a level 8 necromancer, and it's one the best class I've ever played.

So let's see how it worked for me.

When I wasn't moving, most of my turns were:
- 1 action create two thralls
- 2-action spell or focus point.
So there was no shortage of thralls whatsoever.

1 - Flanking

For the low price of 1 action, I could give flanking to two of my buddies as long as the monsters were within 30 feet. That actually mattered A LOT MORE than I thought. With judicious use of delaying an action, every melee had flanking every single time.

2 - Blocking

We're still unclear on whether there is a specific DC to tumble through a thrall, so we went with the least favorable option for the necromancer (autosuccess). Even so, Tumble through allows you to get through ONE creature and only ONE. So in cramped dungeons, you can create a roadblock that takes some time to get through and eats away enemy actions and MAP.

3 - Cover

For one action, I could get two thralls in front of me. That can be useful for later uses, but it also gave me a permanent lesser cover, so +1 against all ranged attacks, which was useful since I played my necromancer from afar.

4 - Exploration

People complain about not being able to move their thralls, and some say it's to prevent the necromancer to use them as bait for traps or monsters. But who cares if they cannot move since they're free to cast ? Just summon some over and over (if it gets too cluttered, your friends can clear them up easily) and you'll eventually summon one into a trap or into an ambush.

5 - Flying

RAW (and possibly RAI), there's NOTHING preventing you from creating a flying thrall, especially since it can look like a ghost or specter. "You conjure forth an expendable undead thrall in range" means you can conjure it in the air if needed, as long as it's 30 feet. Sure, if you rule that it needs an action to stay afloat, it'll fall soon, but you can still use it to throw a bone spear at some annoying harpies.

Here were my necromancer's feats:
1 - Bone Spear (from being a bonemancer)
2 - Muscle Barrier
4 - Body Shield
6 - Bone Burst
8 - Bony Barrage

They're by no means the best feats, just those I wanted to take for the playtest.

So, let me say that Bone Burst is MANDATORY, and it's the single most useful feat in the necromancer list. Since you can create a thrall anywhere and the opportunity attack comes from him - you can basically get any enemy not already engaged in melee in a catch 22 - either sacrifice your highest attack to get rid of the annoyance, or eat a 2d10 piercing attack of opportunity. The fun thing is, you can do it EVERY SINGLE TURN with basically no cost (half an action to raise the thrall, and your reaction). It helped me pile up so much damage it's not even funny.

I only used Body Shield twice (with those thralls I created first round as cover) but it really saved my life. The emergency +2 AC is good, and reducing damage by my level was just gravy.

So far, we've spoken about at-will actions. But my necromancer had 3 focus points + 1 free per fight (which is a gamechanger from ANY OTHER CLASS). Some classes have to spend a feat to get 1 free focus point PER DAY. The necromancer gets 1 free focus point PER FIGHT, baked right into the class.

What could I do with those focus points ?
In most fights, I would use them offensively. Bone Spear is insanely powerful since you can cast it from basically anywhere you have a thrall - and if you don't have one, you can summon one THEN cast it in the same round.

At my level, that's 7d8 damage in an ideally-placed 15-foot line, which usually meant at least 2 targets. Those who read my guide about spellblending know how much I hate attack rolls as a caster, but here the damage and the AOE is worth the cost - and it also helps put those hero points to use.

7d8 to multiple opponents as a focus spell is kind of big. Sure, Imaginary Weapon deals 1d8 more when amped, but you have to be in melee, and it's a maximum of two targets.

When there were a lot of targets, I used Bony barrage for 4d10 friendly-fire damage in an area. That's the same damage as Divine Wrath - without the sickened, sadly, but you cannot have it all.

When we went against a single opponent, I played more support, with Muscle Barrier giving heaps of HP to my friends. It's like a Protector Tree that can move AND that the opponent cannot crit.

I've written all this, and we didn't even talk about spells. Aside from all these goodies, the necromancer is also a semi-full caster. Two slots per level isn't that much but I didn't really feel the lack of spells. When I needed them, they were there, but the ability to use your focus points more liberally than any other class makes it very fun to play.

And that's in a class with a strong chassis (d8 hp, light armor, legendary fortitude, only perception expertise though)

TLDR:
The Necromancer is awesome and I had a lot of fun because:
1) Lots of creative uses of thralls
2) Unparalleled mastery of bursts and cones (and basically targetting).
3) Unparalleled mastery of focus points
4) Good AOE damage and good damage mitigation
5) Very hard to kill between cover, Muscle Barrier and Body Shield

Some weaker points:
1) I suffered a bit against single targets, although I could maybe have chosen other feats for that
2) You have to think fast and play fast if you don't want your turn to be annoyingly long while you try to place your thrall at the exact best location for your next AOE
3) Thralls are weaks against AOE (but since we can put them anywhere we like, they're rarely all lined up to suffer a fireball)
4) No clear rules for tumble through.

(First of all, I'm only talking about the mechanics here. I understand that some people have a strong preference for one system or the other, but that's not what I'm trying to adress)

It's always been my understanding, from ADD 2.0 onwards, that there were two types of casting, both with their advantages.
- Spontaneous spellcasters had more flexibility on the fly
- Prepared spellcasters had more flexibility overall.

Basically, the sorcerer had a very small number of spells but could use them with more leeway, while the wizard could have as many spells as he wanted (sometimes limited by his INT) and change his selection every day, but then this selection was set in stone.

(There were other differences in some iterations, namely DD 3.0, DD 3.5 and PF1, where spontaneous casters got their spells one level later, but could cast them more often).

Anyway, this has been going for a long time and it looked pretty balanced.

The one time where the system showed weakness, though, was computer games, where the smaller amount of solutions available, the emphasis on fighting and the reduced number of spells gave a distinct advantage to the spontaneous caster: what's the point of knowing every spell in the game when most aren't as useful as a handpicked selection of the very best ones ?

And with PF2, it seems this problem has come to tabletop, and spontaneous casting got so much love that it erased all its limitations.

This boils down to a couple reasons:
1) Spontaneous casters know more spells than before.
2) Spontaneous casters get signature spells for free, which is a HUGE thing
3) The number of "must know" spells isn't that huge.
4) Scrolls/wands/staves are still a thing.
5) Some feats downright remove the only downside there could be.

1 - More spells known than before.

Without any feats:

A lvl 5 sorcerer in PF1 knew 6 spells (4 lvl 1, 2 lvl 2)
A lvl 5 sorcerer in PF2 knows 11 spells (4 lvl 1, 4 lvl 2, 3 lvl 3).

A lvl 10 sorcerer in PF1 knew 15 spells (5 lvl 1, 4 lvl 2, 3 lvl 3, 2 lvl 4 and 1 lvl 5).
A lvl 10 sorcerer in PF2 knows 20 spells (4 per level)

A lvl 15 sorcerer in PF1 knew 27 spells.
A lvl 15 sorcerer in PF2 knows 31 spells

A lvl 20 sorcerer in PF1 knew 34 spells
A lvl 20 sorcerer in PF2 knows 36 spells.

So the amount of spells we know has increased, thus easing the first limitation of spontaneous casters.

Meanwhile, prepared casters still have the same shtick of being able to learn any spell, but having to prepare them on their slots, so didn't get the same buff.

You might say "Ok but some of those spells are fixed, so you can't cherry pick your whole list". That's true but most of the time, the spells from the bloodline are at least a bit useful, especially in the case of arcane casters (Imperial sorcerer has probably the most loaded list of all bloodlines and draconic has a lot of good things as well. Genies... well...).

But anyway, this increased amount of spell known is just the cherry on top of the huuuge cake that is...

2 – Signature spells.

Signature spells make it so that you can choose 1 spell per level that can be cast at any level. Heightening wasn’t a thing in PF1, it is now, and that means signature spells are HUGE.

The sorcerer list is way bigger than what you see at first glance.
A level 5 sorcerer doesn’t only have 11 spells known. He really knows 4 lvl 1 spells (his basic selection), 5 lvl 2 spells (4 + the heightened lvl 1) and 5 lvl 3 spells (3 + heightened lvl 1, + heightened lvl 2) for a total of 14 spells known.
By the same token, a level 10 sorcerer knows 4+5+6+7+8= a grand total of 30 spells.
Meanwhile, the wizard still has to choose painfully every single one of his spells for every single level, and a lvl 4 fireball won’t be the same as a lvl 5 one.

What does that mean practically ? Let’s see an average well-rounded spell list of a level 5 sorcerer.

McSorcerer (Imperial Sorcerer)
1 – Force Barrage*, Befuddle, Illusory object, Grease
2 – Dispel Magic*, Longstrider, Floating flame, Invisibility
3 – Haste, Fireball, Fear*

Our sorcerer has buffs for his team or himself, spells that target will or ref (no fortitude yet but it’ll come), can dispel at any level, and of course make a room implode. Notice he can use fear as single- or many-target, he can use Force Barrage at lvl 1 or 3, and his dispel can be strong or weak.

Meanwhile, our poor wizard has a choice to make. First of all, if he’s not a specialist, he simply has not enough breadth to emulate the sorcerer, because he can only choose 3 different spells per level and not 4. If he’s a specialist (and let’s hope his school has useful spells), he *could* be as diverse, but that would mean he’d have only ONE cast of each, with probably some slots that will feel like dead weight.

Also, some spells are really hit or miss in this case – as a wizard, either you prepare dispel as your top slot, or you don’t.
For instance, expecting a combat-heavy day, a wizard COULD have a list that goes this way:
1 – Force Barrage, Fear, Fear + school
2 – Floating Flame, Blazing Bolt, Blazing Bolt + school
3 – Fireball, Fireball + school

But even so, it’s less efficient than McSorcerer, and of course it’s totally useless if something unexpected happens. It’s also mostly tailored to AOE, what if there’s a single enemy ?

3 – The number of must-know spells are not that big.

As an arcane caster, you should try to get spells that:
- Help/buff your allies and yourself (things like haste, fly, greater invisibility…)
- Blast crowds (things like fireball)
- Debuff the enemy (fear, befuddle, slow…)
- Control the battlefield (wall spells, repositioning, action denial…)
- Give utility outside of battle (illusions, invisibility, flying, tongues…)

Even when taking care of targeting all saves, you’re pretty much set with a small selection of spells – those that most spell guides like Gortle’s color in blue or purple.

But wait, you say, WHAT IF something happens and you don’t know the spell ? You’re screwed as a spontaneous caster, right ?
Wrong.
Because...

4 – Scrolls are a thing.

Sometimes, you need a very specific spell in your spellbook. It almost never happens, because see #3, and I can’t think of one from the top of my head, but let’s say it does. You need tongues and you had no room for it in your sorcerer spell list.

First of all, a prepared caster HAS to copy the spell in his spellbook to get it, and unless he picks it (like a sorcerer) at level up, he HAS to buy it once to scribe it.

So if your wizard had to cast Tongues, you better hope he thought about buying it in town. And if he did, then with the same budget there is no reason the sorcerer didn’t.

So now the wizard has Tongue in his spellbook - and has to wait until next morning to use it – while the sorcerer has the actual scroll and can just cast it right here, right now. Advantage to the sorcerer, even here, unless you double down on every scroll you buy.

So when does the wizard have the upper hand ? Hmm. Let’s see. In the VERY SPECIFIC situation of A LOT OF PEOPLE needing A VERY RARE BUFF that the sorcerer DOESN’T HAVE, the wizard has the edge. “Hey, tomorrow I can give all of you water breathing, how cool is that ?”
That’s cool, no doubt. And that’s probably his biggest moment of spotlight.
Oh, wait, someone tells me…

5) Some feats downright remove the only downside there could be.

Hello, Arcane evolution. Now the sorcerer can also give the whole team water breathing if he scribed the scroll.

CONCLUSION
I love the wizard, I even wrote a guide for the spellblending one who can at least pretend to be good by having way more top slots than any class in the game.
But still, the nerdy wizard is just the cool sorcerer’s bullied friend, and he needs some love.

Hello,

Rules got pretty complicated during last week session.
We were fighting 3 Shining Childs and I, as a wizard, cast Slow (6th level) on them.

DM said they all had spell turning on, so here are the first questions
1) Who uses the spell turning ? Is it any one of them at random ? Do they all have to use it ?
2) If one Shining Child sends the spell back to me, are the other Childs still affected or is the whole spell sent back ?
3) Since there are multiple targets with this spell, is it only targeting me back, or also my companions ?

The ruling that night was 1) only one uses it, 2) other monsters are thus unaffected and 3) I'm the only one slowed.

But here's where it gets interesting. I ALSO HAD A SPELL TURNING ACTIVE.

Per spell turning description: "If spell turning reflects a spell back at a caster who is also under the effect of spell turning, their spell turning can attempt to reflect their own spell back at you again; if they do so, their counteract attempt automatically succeeds."

So I just sent my slow back to them AGAIN. And it triggered so many new questions:
1) The Shining Child who used spell turning got affected, that's a given. But what happens to the other targets ? Are they still affected ?
2) Can ANOTHER Shining Child use his own Spell Turning ? And what happens if he can ?

Thanks for any clarification, it really was a mess ^^

Hello,

I'd like to play a mutagenist in an upcoming campaign, where the healing output is rather low (5-man party and the only healing source would be the redeemer).

So I'd like to carry a bit of this burden, even if I know other classes (and even other subclasses) would be more suited to it. I really want to give the mutagenist a try this time ^^

I've read most guides floating around, but I'm still a bit confused. Could you help me build a mutagenist, taking into account that:
- We start at level 1 so the build has to be viable from the start (or at least from lvl 3 onward)
- I really want to give full-blown mutagenist a try, not another class with alchemist dedication nor a chirurgeon or bomber
- I should be able to fill-in as another secondary healer, deal reasonable damage and survive reasonably well.

Here are some ideas I had but they're pretty jumbled:
- I need a free hand for battle medicine, so Bestial Mutagen would be best for battle
- Another option would be to take martial artists dedication and use Drakeheart mutagen. I'd be more tanky but would deal less damage.
- Healing bomb at level 4 could help in a pinch but if I understand correctly it will only matter at level 7 when I can get a moderate elixir of life with +2 additive.
- Medic dedication could help with my action economy (doctor's visitation) but then I have no other dedication
- Since I'm MAD, can I skip wisdom and count on assurance to carry me through legendary medicine ?
- Is the valet familiar mandatory for such a build ?

Quicksilver mutagen says "You gain an item bonus to Acrobatics checks, Stealth checks, Thievery checks, Reflex saves, AND DEXTERITY BASED ATTACK ROLLS" (emphasis mine).

So an investigator using a shortbow or any dex weapon will benefit from it. But what happens if he uses his Devise Stratagem ? "When you make this substitution, you can also add your Intelligence modifier to your attack roll instead of your Strength or Dexterity modifier".

Is it still a dex-based attack ? Do you still benefit from the mutagen ?

I recently joined a campaign on roll20 and decided to take a thaumaturge. The GM allowed it, although none of us was very familiar with the class. All other players took core or APG classes like a rogue, a ranger, a wizard and a cleric.

We're currently lvl 8, I didn't take any specific shenanigans (I'm human, no multiclass, no busted feat interaction) but the GM feels that this class is "too powerful" and asks me if I can change it so as not to create an imbalance with other players.

The question here is not whether that's good GMing and whether I should comply or leave the campaign altogether, but whether he's right in his assessment of the class, or if we didn't take things into account.

I took the amulet implement at lvl 1, the regalia at lvl 5 and amulet adept at lvl 7. My feats are Diverse Lore, Scroll Thaumaturgy, Talisman Esoterica, Scroll Esoterica and Elaborate talisman esoterica. Pretty standard stuff, I didn't even go the familiar route and it could be more optimized.

1) Attacking

At level 8, if I succeed at my EV check (which is pretty easy since a standard DC is 24 and I have +18 on the roll), I can now either exploit the weakness of any monster (which was insane in some encounters) or in the worst case create my own weakness 6.

This means my +1 striking longsword hits for 2d8+4(str)+4(IE)+6(weakness)+2(weapon spe), so 2d8+16 average 25.

That's more than the rogue on flat-footed target (he does 4d6+6 so average 20) and the precision ranger on his hunted target (he does 2d6+6+1d8 average 17 and usually fires twice but second shot has lower chance to hit).

2) Being attacked

All other characters are made of paper, so I'm the designated tank. With the amulet, I can soak 10 damage from first hit, then get a lingering resist 5 from same damage type. Since most monsters come in pack, that often is a flat DR5.

When I'm not the one attacked, I can act as a Champion with my reaction, and getting a lingering resist is arguably as good as getting an extra hit in when you're a paladin.

I'm not level 9 yet but the amulet will also let me raise shield if needed (only against my target, but with the added bonus of bolstering saves). Talking about saves, I'm great here as well with master will save and expert in the two others.

3) Out of combat

This is where the GM gets pissed. It's ok for my thaumaturge to be good at fighting, lots of characters are. But he's also the uncontested king of OOC actions, miles ahead of everyone else.

- He's the party face and is better at it than any other class in the game, thanks to the regalia bonus.
- He's also the party egghead, and is better at it than any other class in the game, thanks to Diverse Lore. This means I'm master at every recall knowledge check (using CHA) and master - 2 (so expert) at EVERY DAMN KNOWLEDGE IN THE GAME. Sure, the wizard has 2 more in Arcana than me, but I'm the best at every other skill. I mean, which other class can both be the face and the intellectual ?
- He can use ANY scroll with his thaumaturgy DC, a thing every caster would kill for. He also gets a 1st level and 2nd level scroll from ANY tradition that he can change EVERYDAY. His talismans are also crazy powerful considering they're free (you can get feather fall, fortitude bonuses, free grapple and so many others).

Anyway, my DM feels no class should be a great DPS AND a great tank AND the best party face AND the best knowledge character AND get free scrolls and talismans.

So, what can I answer him ? Is he right ? I do feel powerful, and I don't want to overshadow everybody.

Hello,

I'd really like to play a monk on an upcoming AP, but I realized our party is very severely lacking in the damage department.

I know monk strength comes from things like fast movement and stunning fist, but I'll have to put the hurt on enemies if we want to win the upcoming fights.

We have:
- A sword and board redeemer
- A primal witch
- A bard
- An investigator

..and me.

The investigator is a new player and she's not minmaxing at all - which is totally fine, but makes me carry the brunt of the damage in a fight. The witch will take some damaging spells, the bard will be mostly debuffing, and the redeemer will do redeemer stuff.

So, how would YOU create this monk so he can really put the hurt on someone ? I can even sacrifice a little bit of survivability since I'll have a redeemer to babysit me, the witch plans to invest in life lesson and the bard will take soothe as a signature spell.

1) We don't have free archetypes
2) We play on foundry so most material implemented is ok

It's my first time playing monk and I'm really excited about it, but I'd love to have some advice on it.

Thanks a lot !

I know there's been a lot of threads about this spell but I still didn't see any elegant or definitive answer, and we now have the problem at our table.

For those who don't know, here's what Illusory object (level 1 spell) does:

Range 500 feet; Area 20-foot burst
Duration 10 minutes
"You create an illusory visual image of a stationary object. The entire image must fit within the spell's area. The object appears to animate naturally, but it doesn't make sounds or generate smells. For example, water would appear to pour down an illusory waterfall, but it would be silent.

Any creature that touches the image or uses the Seek action to examine it can attempt to disbelieve your illusion."

If you heighten it to level 2, its duration is now one hour, with sound, smell and touch added.

So, here are a few things you can do with it RAW:

Beginner shenanigan: create a 40 foot-wide wall of stone in front of some opponents. Either they go around it (wasting one, perhaps two actions) or they try to disbelieve it (provided they have good reason to think it's an illusion) and lose at least one action, even on a success. So basically, with this basic use, you've wasted one or two actions on a group of opponents, even if they save. That's pretty wild for a first level spell.

Intermediate shenanigan: create a 40 foot-wide cage around melee opponents. Your ranged can still hit them without disbelieving, but the melee are now trapped. They'll waste all at least one action (hitting the cage, trying to disbelieve), probably more. Again, it's pretty potent.

Expert shenanigan: create a 40-foot-wide maze around the opponents. They'll waste at least two or three actions trying to get out.

There are lots of other uses as well (a dome to trap mages or archers...or to save one of your friends who's targeted; a sphere that blinds a flying opponent; not to mention the obvious RP uses like creating a cave, a waterfall, a bridge or whatever.

Anyway, here's my point: I'm mastering Age of Ashes, the players are level 5 and our bard is outshadowing every other caster with this spell. His background is all about illusions so I don't want to ban it (especially since I suggested some application for the spell myself) and I don't want to use the obvious answer of "hey, from now on all opponents you'll meet will also use this spell".

I'm just wondering how you're dealing with it at your table, or how you would deal with it should the occasion arise. I'm a bit uncomfortable to see a level 1 or 2 spell being more powerful than, say, resilient sphere (which is a pretty good spell on its own) or even mass slow.

Saving Throw Fortitude; Duration 1 minute

You create a cloud of putrid mist in the area. The cloud functions as obscuring mist except it sickens creatures that end their turns within the cloud. (The concealed condition is not a poison effect.)

Critical Success The creature is unaffected.
Success The creature is sickened 1.
Failure The creature is sickened 1 and slowed 1 while in the cloud.
Critical Failure The creature is sickened 2 and slowed 1 until it leaves the cloud.

I just wrote a wizard guide and we got into a discussion about the Stinking Cloud spell.

Do people have to save against it when it is cast (and also at the end of every turn if they're still in it) or do they only save against it if they stay in it ?

Hello,

After playing a lot of wizards in a lot of campaigns, and after arguing in a lot of threads about a lot of misconceptions (that's what I call opinions that don't go my way) , I thought it was my sacred duty to write a guide about the wizard.

But not any wizard.
The one and only wizard, the master of the arcane arts, the best spellcaster in the game bar none.

(Drumroll)

The Spell Blending Wizard

I hope you'll enjoy it ;)

Blue Frog's Hideously Biased Guide To Wizards

Disclaimer: english isn't my native, so please don't be too hard on me for spelling mistakes !

A friend at our table wants to give a shot at a bomber, but he's concerned about accuracy.

He's hesitating between taking ranger archetype for hunter's aim, or investigator archetype for devise stratagem.

Which would you choose ? Which might be the most accurate (assuming there are secondary targets if the stratagem rolls poorly) ?

As an aside, does hunted shot work with bombs, i.e. are they a ranged weapon with 0 reload once you take Quick Bomb ?

Thanks for your input !

Hello,

I was considering playing a bard for a new game, and I really liked the flavor of a mysterious wanderer playing the flute and mesmerizing its opponents with its music (a la Siren Sorrento, for those who like Saint Seiya).

And then, it occurred to me that not every performance is equal, and that there seems to be a huge imbalance between them.

Some performance don't need anything: Acting, Comedy, Dance, Oratory, Singing
Others do need an instrument AND have the manipulate trait: Playing any instrument.

So, basically:

I can choose to be a singer, in which case
- I can wield whatever I want in my hands (magic staff, rod, shield...)
- I can use performance even if I'm butt-naked (say, if I'm in jail, or just waking up)
- I can use performance in melee without provoking

OR
I can choose to play an instrument, in which case:
- Both hands are tied. No shield apart from a buckler, no staff
- If I lose my instrument, I'm screwed (yes, I'm aware there's a cantrip but that's a harsh price to pay)
- Manipulate makes me provoke in melee.

So what's the tradeoff ? How is this even remotely fair ? I'm ready to make some sacrifices for flavor, but this is pretty steep.

The only advantage I can see is that you can invest in a Maestro's Instrument to get an item bonus to performance, but Maestro's instrument is a very weak item by itself and you could be a dancer and get a scarf for the same result.

My cloistered cleric will soon hit level 3 and I was wondering about spiritual weapon.
The damage will probably be one dice lower than any martial (since they'll get runes next level) and accuracy will be lagging as well.

Even if I heighten it later, it will do better damage but the accuracy will still be very low.

Sooo... do you actually use it in battle ? Are you successful with it ?

Hello,

I'll be playing another sorcerer for an upcoming campain, and I'd really like to get One for All from swashbuckler dedication, since it makes me a great teamplayer and gives me a use both for a third action and a reaction in the round.

However, I'm strapped for feats and I cannot seem to find a place in my build to get it.

Here are the feats I consider mandatory for my build:
1 - Dangerous Sorcery (through natural ambition)
4 - Arcane dedication
6 - Advanced bloodline spell
8 - Crossblooded evolution

See the problem ? The only time when I can take a dedication is level 2. Since we'll be starting at level 1, I don't want to wait till level 10 to get my swashbuckler feat.

So, is there any way through ancestries and general feats to make this work ? Any ancestry that gives an extra feat or dedication ? I could be an ancient elf, but I still can't take basic flair until I'm level 4, so it doesn't work.

Help, am I forgetting some obvious solution here ?

Greetings,

We got into an interesting argument last game, as our cleric used Spiritual weapon while under the effect of a bless spell.

He was in the emanation (obviously) but the spiritual weapon was 20 feet away and not in the zone of bless.

Would he get the +1 status bonus to attack roll with his spiritual weapon ?

Hello,

My last character died, so we're trying something new, and I thought it was the perfect time to see if Oracle were as fun as they seem.

I'd like to go with an ancestor oracle since I love the mechanics. To me, it's probably the most colorful class in the whole game. Do what your ancestors tell you or get punished - but wait, they also fight each other for control. Really fun.

Anyway, the curse can severely hamper one's game if you don't roll with it, so I'd like to try a character that does just that: follow the voices of his ancestors no matter what - since the bonuses are pretty hefty.

So I'll go as soon as possible to Major Curse, then follow the will of my ancestors.

This means that if I am nudged by a spellcasting ancestor, I'll cast a spell. If I'm advised by a battle ancestor, I'll strike. And if I get the Skilled Ancestor, I'll trip, Demoralize or use Medicine like there's no tomorrow.

I'm thinking about some kind of melee build going heavy armor and shield, but I'm torn about my ancestry. I mean, ancestor Oracles is all about ancestry, and you get two more ancestry feats at level 1 and 11.

The shield is pretty useful here since I usually won't split my actions, and I won't have the accuracy to benefit from a second attack.

Fight turn: Move, Strike, Raise Shield. Or Strike x 2, raise shield.
Spell turn: Cast a spell, Raise shield or move.
Skill turn: Trip, Demoralize, Bon Mot, Medicine...

Here's a rough draft, but I'm sure you guys could make it so much better.

Ancestry: Human (Half-elf)
Class: Ancestor Oracle
Background: Warrior (Intimidate + intimidating glare)
STR 16
DEX 10
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 12
CHA 18

Raises in STR, CON, WIS, CHA.

Human: Armor Proficiency
Human: Adapted Cantrip (Electric Arc)
1: Reach Spell
2: Sentinel dedication, Titan Wrestler
3: Toughness
4: Divine Access (Isis for breadth or The Prismatic Ray for fireball), Steel Skin
5: Human: Adapted Adept
6: Armor specialist, Bastion Dedication
8: Advanced Revelation, Bon Mot
10: Quick Block
12: Greater Revelation
14: Mysterious Repertoire
16: Nimble Shield Hand
18: Divine Effusion
20: Oracular Providence

Most threads I've seen point out how much even +1 AC is a godsend in PF2, since it not only lowers your chance to get hit, but also to get crit.

So, while thinking about what to play in an upcoming campaing, I always tried to include a shield option in every melee chracter. The +2 to AC seems too good to pass up.

However, this means:

1) It prevents me to take some specific builds (two-handed ones, for instance, have no way of increasing their AC)
2) It messes up my action economy. Raising a shield or using any other form of parrying takes up an action that could be used for attacking/striking/intimidating. With the proper build, like fighter or bastion, it can take only a reaction, but then it competes with AOO, Shield Block and other reaction you might get (like opportune riposte). Sure, there are higher level stances who give it for free, but then half the game is already done.

So my question, for those of you who actually PLAYED the game and aren't just theorycrafting like me: are those +2 AC actually worth the cost ? Do you often raise your shield as a meleer ? Do you get hit often if you don't have one ?

A rogue with no shield seems easy to drop with 8hp/lvl, and nimble dodge takes a reaction AND only applies on one attack.

A swashbuckler is strapped for actions, so until level 10, it looks like there's little wiggle room with a shield: Panache-enhancer, Finisher, Raise Shield. Done.

A barbarian with a big two-hander is plenty scary, but does the penalty to AC and lack of shield turn him into a punching ball ?

Does a Melee Hunter have to take Twin parry as a feat tax so as not to die ?

So, yeah, basically: what are your actual game experiences and how dangerous is it to go without a shield ?

A friend wants to build a melee bard for an upcoming campaign. I'm helping him do it, but I'm not sure how effective he will be.

After thinking it through, I sadly think a Maestro Bard is a better melee fighter than a warrior bard.

Maestro has a better spell (though Fear is good, Soothe is almost a must-have). It also has lingering composition to lighten the load on actions. I'm not sold on Harmonize and Inspire Defense since he'll want to raise his shield a lot, so he won't be able to use too many actions on cantrips. What he'll have, though, is Inspire Heroics, and that's a tough one to lose if I don't take this path.

Warrior has, well, not that much actually. Being able to take martial weapons is good, but some weapons, like the rapier, are already great in the selection. Also, ancestries can always help here. So the good things come a bit later with Courageous Opportunity and Courageous Assault. However, Courageous Assault is kind of annoying since it takes one action... and needs us to use Inspire Courage when Dirge of Doom is most often the better choice.

I'm focusing here on the first ten levels since we're playing slow and it'll take a long time to get there.

MAESTRO BARD

STR 16
DEX 10
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 12
CHA 18

I know I could tank CHA, but a high CHA will allow him to use his spells when he's not in the thick of things, and also help him be the Face of the group.

Skills: Athletics, Diplomacy, Intimidation, Deception, Medicine, Occultism, Performance

FEATS
1 - Lingering Composition
2 - Champion Dedication
4 - Inspire Competence
6 - Dirge of Doom
8 - Inspire Heroics
10 - Champion Reaction

SPELLS
0: Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Light, Mage Hand, Telekinetic Projectile
1: Soothe*, Fear, Liberating Command, True strike
2: Restoration*, Hideous Laughter, Mirror Image
3: Haste, Slow, Vampiric Touch*
4: Blink, Fly, Phantasmal Killer*
5: Synesthesia, Shadow Blast

Basically, once in melee range, a typical round would go Dirge of Doom/Strike/Raise Shield, with spells as backup. On nova rounds, it would go Inspire heroics/Inspire Courage/Strike/Strike.

What do you think ? How could you tweak this build ?

I'm specifically thinking about a Priest using cast down to end his round, then using thé three action harm next round.

Would it work ?

Hello,

I'm very excited about trying a melee harm build in an upcoming game. It might not be the best build ever, but there's something inherently satisfying about putting your hand on the chest of someone and shrivel his skin and eat his liver and... hum. Yeah. Anywayyyy...

This character has to be able to melee, and I don't want to use divine smite:
- Because it's less thematically fun for me to smite someone than to burst his skin open then strike
- Because I'm pretty unlucky with dices and I don't want to put all my eggs in the same dice roll.
- Because harm as a spell can benefit from harming hands (and dangerous sorcery, though I won't go that way).
- Because a successful save from the opponent is still half damage.
- Because Cast Down
- Because it's fun to make someone scream while you rip their heart from their chest. Wait, I already said that.

Most full rounds would be either:
1) Regular
Demoralize, Strike, Raise Shield or Strike, Strike, Raise Shield

2) Regular burst
Cast Down, Harm, Strike

3) Full burst
Harm, Harm, Strike

4) Prudent burst
Harm, Strike, Raise Shield

5) Spellcasting
Harm + spell or Strike + spell or Raise Shield + Spell.

Well, nothing new there. But now here's my question. I need to be at least average at hitting stuff (else the Strike part is useless) and at least average at using Harm (else everybody will resist).

So.

Most guides say that a melee harm build should be a warpriest, but isn't it more efficient going the Cloistered Cleric route (with a champion dedication of course) ?

The build would be like:

Race: Human
Ancestry: Versatile heritage for Shield Block
Human Feat: Natural Ambition
Class: Cloistered Cleric

First few Feats
Human: Harming Hands
2: Champion Dedication
4: Versatile Channeling
6: Cast Down
8: Channelled Succor (for being a team player)

Levels 1 through 7 will be no different from a warpriest, except I'll have a domain spell and he'll be able to take versatile channeling 2 levels earlier and/or take a different dedication.
Levels 8 through 10 will be tough, trained proficiency in my weapon means I'll have to rely much more on my spellcasting. But that's ok since I'll have expert proficiency in it.
Levels 11 and higher, with full plate, a sturdy shield and expert proficiency, it seems to me I'll be ahead in every domain.

So what did I get wrong ? Most guides I've seen recommend to go Warpriest for a melee harm build. What's the point and what would I lose by going cloistered cleric instead of warpriest ?

Thanks and sorry for the wall of text ^^

I really love the idea of the swashbuckler and I'm always playing dex-fighter daredevils in most games. There's something enthralling about being able to fight your way through with panache and wit.

However, I'm not quite convinced the swashbuckler does this better than the rogue.

WEAPONS
They both get about the same weapon skills, though the ruffian can play with a longspear for some reach. They both get expert, master, weapon spe at same level.

AC
They both get the same light armor (though the ruffian can get medium). The swashbuckler has some feat support for the buckler, but then the rogue can use a regular shield.

DAMAGE
Without panache, swashbuckler has nothing. With it, he gets +2 damage every attack and, once per round, can use a finisher for +2d6. Those numbers get +1/+1d6 at levels 5, 11, 13, 17. Unless you have a very specific setup (you had panache the previous round and kept it for a burst), you cannot get more than one finisher in a round.

On the other hand, the rogue has +1d6 for every attack if the target is flat footed. As long as you have one other martial in the team, you can get it easily (either through Mobility to get in position, or at level 6 it's free with Gang Up). The progression is the same, but the rogue can potentially attack 3 times and get 3 times the sneak attack. Third attack is less likely to hit, but even if two attacks hit, that's still a big gap in damage.

Also, the thief has dex to damage, while the swashbuckler has to invest in STR if he wants to deal more damage, which means gimping his other stats. I cannot picture a swashbuckler without charisma, so that's a tough act to balance.

SKILLS
Rogue is way better, with way more boosts and skill feats - even if the swashbuckler has some free in acrobatics or his special skill.

FEATS
Swashbuckler gets great feats, but they come very late - around level 10 - with free buckler rise or bleeding finish. Meanwhile, the rogue has great debilitations to help himself or his team, so it's kind of a wash.

So, why would anyone play a swashbuckler mecanically ? I mean, they're really cool, but I can play a rogue with 18 DEX and 16 CHA out of the box, use a rapier, and buckle my swash better than a swashbuckler.