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Sovereign Court

Campbell wrote:

The Wizard has the exact some wording on Weapon Specialization largely because it is the same wording everyone gets. Same for all the martial classes that get Greater Weapon Specialization.

I'm fairly certain they have no plans to give Wizards Legendary proficiency in Weapons.

They don't need it, weapons are not the Wizard's area of expertise. Unarmed combat is the focus of Monks. Since they don't get and don't need a bunch of weapon and armor training, I think I'll let them get Legendary in both the armor and attacks they can use. Though I could say that the Graceful Legend ability at 17th allows you a choice: You either get Legendary in Unarmored Defense or Unarmed attacks. Whichever you choose, the rest of the ability stays the same. That way no class would get both Legendary attacks and defense. Would that be better?

Edit: I went ahead and changed it. Now Graceful Legend gives you a choice of either Unarmored Defense or Unarmed Attacks to boost to Legendary. The rest of the ability is unchanged.

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NielsenE wrote:
Samurai wrote:

Ok, I've made some new changes and updated the number to version 1.2. In this version, your first Multiclass (both Dedication and further feats in that multiclass) can be bought with either General feats or Class feats. If you take a second Multiclass, it can only be bought using Class feats (except the Multitalented feat can get you the Dedication).

Because I made the above change, Whenever you get 4 Ability Boosts, you can trade 2 of them for 1 feat. It must be either an Ancestry feat or a General Feat.

Finally, I was surprised to learn that Monks had no way to get Legendary in Unarmed Combat and Simple Weapons. Several of their class abilities mention bonuses at Legendary, but I didn't see a way to get it, so I added it to the 19th level "Perfected Form" If I just missed where they get it, let me know please!.

Samurai's PF2 changes version 1.2

Monks don't get Legendary in their attacks only in defense. The references to legendary are future-proofing. (Ie if they add an option to trade your defense proficiency gains for offensive, or something.) You see the same future proofing on other classes too.

Well, for now, until such options are available, I added it to Perfected Form. If anyone should have Legendary Unarmed attacks it should be the Monk. Right now only the Fighter gets it. What other things are future-proofing things that don't exist yet?

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David knott 242 wrote:
Samurai wrote:
3) Why have that restriction? That is not a requirement in 5E. I think the diminishing returns after 18 is already disincentive enough. As it says on pg 20, you can only use 1 Boost at a time on any Ability score, so it will take 10 levels to actually increase your stat bonus by +1.

In D&D 5E, your default option is either +2 to a single ability score of +1 to each of two ability scores, with a cap of 20. Taking a feat completely eliminates that option unless you select a feat that grants +1 to a specific ability score.

An exact conversion of this to PF2 would be to have the feat completely replace the four ability boosts received at 5th, 10th, 15th, or 20th level, but that seems a little harsh -- but there still needs to be a meaningful cost to it, as each ability boost after the first one is worth less to most players than the previous one would be. That is why I suggested that you should not be allowed to increase your key ability score at any level where you take the feat option.

The criticism I was actually expecting on this one was that it might be too easy to build a character who is not dependent on keeping his key ability score high, but I haven't really had the chance to think through those implications.

What if I stated that the Maximum ability score for a player is 20? That means they could get only 2 Boosts past 18 in their primary stat and then they would have to chose other stats to raise or take a Feat. That seems fair to me. Magic could still raise it further but that is the limit of Human and Demi-human capability naturally

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Campbell wrote:
So my suspicion is that granting 4 boosts instead of 1 or 2 is mostly in place to keep the math relatively tight. My assumption is that the developers basically assume most players will be investing in their primary plus at least Constitution and Wisdom with many also investing in Dexterity to keep defenses from going pear shaped at high levels like they do in other editions. You can opt not to and make tertiary investments in Charisma or Intelligence, but for the most part the more math critical Ability Scores will generally be chosen.

That's one of the better explanations I've seen for it. Makes sense to me.

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Ok, I've made some new changes and updated the number to version 1.2. In this version, your first Multiclass (both Dedication and further feats in that multiclass) can be bought with either General feats or Class feats. If you take a second Multiclass, it can only be bought using Class feats (except the Multitalented feat can get you the Dedication).

Because I made the above change, Whenever you get 4 Ability Boosts, you can trade 2 of them for 1 feat. It must be either an Ancestry feat or a General Feat.

Finally, I was surprised to learn that Monks had no way to get Legendary in Unarmed Combat and Simple Weapons. Several of their class abilities mention bonuses at Legendary, but I didn't see a way to get it, so I added it to the 19th level "Perfected Form" If I just missed where they get it, let me know please!.

Samurai's PF2 changes version 1.2

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David knott 242 wrote:

If you want this swap to have similar consequences to the D&D 5e version, at a minimum you would want to do the following:

1) The feat you gain must be an ancestry or general feat (as you already get plenty of class feats).

2) You give up two of your four ability boosts.

3) Neither of the remaining two ability boosts can be applied to your key ability score.

Thanks for your thoughts.

1) I had originally limited it to just Ancestry and General, but then I thought about the need to give up so many class feats due to multiclassing. You might lose 6 to 8 of your class feats to the multiclass feats. When I suggested that for your first multiclass you could use General feats or Class feats to buy Multiclass feats, people didn't like that and said it was too much of a boost in power, so now you can only buy your first Multiclass Dedication as a General Feat and must use your class feats to buy more multiclass feats. If I take away the ability to buy Class feats by trading for Boosts, what do you think of then allowing characters to buy their first Multiclass as General or Class feats? That was my first choice anyway...

2) If I do the "Your first Multiclass can be General feats idea" thought above, I would change the Ancestry and General feats to being worth 2 Boosts.

3) Why have that restriction? That is not a requirement in 5E. I think the diminishing returns after 18 is already disincentive enough. As it says on pg 20, you can only use 1 Boost at a time on any Ability score, so it will take 10 levels to actually increase your stat bonus by +1.

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spectrevk wrote:
Tender Tendrils wrote:
I love the new hobgoblins, they actually feel like they are related to other goblinoids now instead of just being Gray humanoids (1e hobgoblins reminded me a lot of LOTR Uruk-hai, which isn't a great thing as pathfinder goblins are veeerrryyy different to the goblins that uruk-hai are related to).
Goblinoids have never looked alike. Bugbears *still* look totally different from Goblins or either version of the Hobgoblin design.

Not really. They still have the long ears that all goblins have. Bugbears just look hairier and more brutish, like a Neanderthal Hobgoblin.

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K1 wrote:
Samurai wrote:

If your stat increases after creation, you still pick the new things you would gain from it. You get +1 language and +1 Trained Skill for boosting your Int at any level, not just 1st level.

Are you sure?

Yes. It is stated on page 31:

pg 31 wrote:
If an Ability Boost increases your character's Constitution modifier, recalculate their maximum hit points using the new modifier (typically by adding 1 hit point per level). If an ability boost increases you character's Intelligence modifier, they become trained in an additional skill and language.

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I updated version 1.1 of my rules changes again. Link is a few posts back.

I added the ability to trade 1 or 2 of your ability boosts every time you get a choice of 4 Boosts. Ancestry and General feats cost 1 Boost, a Class feat costs 2 Boosts.

I also added a couple of new General Feats, Armor Expertise (lvl 13) and Weapon Expertise (lvl 11). They each have a requirement that you are at least an Expert in your Class weapons or armor. Taking these feats will increase any Armor or Weapon received through the General feats Armor Training and Weapon Training to Expert proficiency, and allows them to scale even higher along with your Class proficiencies. So if at some point your class gives you Master level armor or weapons, the proficiencies gained by your feats also scale with them. This is simply copying the Ancestry feats like Dwarven Weapon Expertise, Elven Weapon Expertise, Gnome Weapon Expertise, Goblin Weapon Expertise, Halfling Weapon Expertise, Unconventional Weapon Expertise, and Orc Weapon Expertise. I feel this was forgotten and would not be surprised to see an official version added in the APG.

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Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:
Does this include other class feats?

All feats list the minimum level you may take it at. You can always take it later unless specified. This goes for Class, General, and Skill feats, and most Ancestry feats.

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If your stat increases after creation, you still pick the new things you would gain from it. You get +1 language and +1 Trained Skill for boosting your Int at any level, not just 1st level.

The choice to either get an ancestry or general feat for 1 boost or a class feat for 2 boosts is a good idea, I'll have to think about that more.

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oholoko wrote:


Seems fair... But i don't think anyone would take 4 boosts instead if 3 biists abd ab extra feat.

I don't really know why they decided to give 4 boosts every 5 levels. I think 2 would have been fine for most character types, or even 3. The Diminishing returns after a stat reaches 18 encourages characters to diversify more, but it may eventually allows a character that started with a score of 10 in a stat to have an 18 in it by 20th level. I'm just looking for a way to use those unneeded points for something else. Do you think the ability to get a feat should cost 2 points of the ability boost? Would a choice between 4 stat boosts vs 2 stat boosts + 1 skill be a harder choice?

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In D&D 5e, you can trade your ability boosts to buy feats. What do you think of a more limited version of that in PF2e?

What if the rule were as follows: Whenever you have a choice of a 4 free Ability boosts, you can instead choose to get just 3 Ability boosts and 1 free Ancestry, Class, or General feat. You must meet all the requirements for the feat chosen.

So, for example, at Level 1 get 4 free ability boosts at the end of character creation, so you could instead just take 3 of those boosts and a free feat that you qualify for. This shouldn't be too game breaking, it would actually reduce the character's power level a bit, but open up more options for them.

What do you think? Should it be limited to only Ancestry and General feats? Does it step on the toes of Humans getting a free feat if they choose Natural Ambition or General Training?

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What would be the benefits of a mana pool? If they can cast any spell known at any level they can cast, just let Spontaneous casters like Bards and Sorcerers have all their spells = their Signature spell ability. That's what I did in my house rules.

If you want to let casters change their spell slots, just create a system to combine or break apart slots. For example, you could say that 2 slots can combine into the next higher level slot, and similarly you can break apart a slot into 2 slots of -1 level each. For example, 2 level 1 slots can become 1 level 2 slot, and vice versa.

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AnCap Dawg wrote:
Samurai wrote:
How would you mark and remember "Today X is my signature spell"?

Your signature spells don't change daily. Put an asterisk next to one spell per spell level in your repertoire. That's your signature spell.

Letting spontaneous casters heighten all their spells freely is a significant power boost that will only get more noticeable at higher levels.

But, hey! It's your game. Do what's fun for you and your group.

You're right, it is up to each group of players and GM to decide, I'm just trying to give my suggestions. In my opinion, it's no more powerful than freely letting Prepared casters just choose which spell levels to prepare a spell at each day. If someone who needs book learning just to figure out how to cast spells can do it for free, then why is it harder for someone who is born with magic naturally in their blood? That just makes no sense to me at all.

I'm just trying to get away from this:

GW: "Congrats, Wizard and Sorcerer, you are both level 3 now, pick your new level 2 spells!"

Wizard: "Finally! I'll choose some new second level spells!"

Sorcerer: "I'm going to just choose Shocking Grasp and Grim Tendrils again."

DM: "But you already know those spells."

Sorcerer: "Yes, but I want to be able to Heighten them."

Wizard: "Should have been a Wizard then, I can prepare them at any level and still expand my repertoire."

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"Squiggit wrote:
Quote:
which from my experience playing 5e is just flat out nonsensical.

TBH I super feel this. 5e is easily one of the most intuitive and direct D&D-like games I've played, it's explicitly aimed at attracting new players and I've never seen heightening trip people up there.

If anything I feel like the wizard casting mechanic is something that's a lot more likely to frustrate new players than heightening ever could and we were fine keeping that.

I agree, there is nothing hard about it at all. I think the harder thing would be trying to figure out what you can and can't Heighten. How would you mark and remember "Today X is my signature spell"? And I can't heighten all my other spells? The ability to only Heighten 1 spell per level but not the others would be MORE confusing for me, not less. I think limiting Spontaneous casters to only downgrading their spell slots but not upgrading them is also counterintuitive.

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Thanks for all the comments! I've fixed Ork for Orc and I removed the free feat for Spontaneous casters. It now just says they automatically get this ability so ignore it at 3rd level. I am inspired by rainzax's changes so I almost copied his Alchemist changes and did my own version of his Monk changes. It's a bit of a boost for the Monk because it gives them 1 free feat at level 1 depending upon how they focus their abilities. Like everything, that is subject to change if people don't like it. (see, I don't just boost casters! ;) )

There has been enough changes since I started that I have advanced the file name to version 1.1. I really appreciate all the feedback!

Samurai's PF2 changes version 1.1

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rainzax wrote:

Minor monk fix here - alternatives to the Core monk included by trading out Flurry of Blows for other "1st level only" abilities, designed to open up the space a little more.

Early Path to Perfection
At first level, a monk chooses their path to perfection from among Body, Heart, or Spirit. This choice determines which key ability scores they may choose from, which ability they receive at first level, as well as which possible tradition their ki powers may arise from. The Monk depicted in the Core Rulebook is assumed to have chosen the path of Body, and in all ways functions identically:
** spoiler omitted **...

I like your ideas Rainzax. I made a few changes for myself though. It is a small increase in power because it includes 1 free feat for each type of Monk. Let me know what you think:

Altered versions of rainzax's changes:

Monk:
(pg 155): You may chose to focus in 1 of 3 areas as a Monk: Flurry, Ki, or Stances.

Flurry: You use the rules as presented in the core book, and may choose Strength or Dexterity as your key ability. You get the Flurry of Blows ability and the Monastic Weaponry feat at level 1 for free.

Ki: You may choose between Dexterity or Wisdom as your key ability. Instead of Flurry of Blows you get the Ki Defense ability. You get either Ki Strike or Ki Rush at level 1 for free.

Stances: You may choose between Strength and Wisdom as your key ability. Instead of Flurry of Blows, you get the Meditative Strike ability. You may choose any level 1 Stance as a free feat.

Ki Defense (1 action)
(Requirement: Unarmored and Unencumbered):
You may spend 1 action and 1 Ki point to add your Wisdom bonus to your Armor Class until the end of your next round. Each time you spend another Focus point while Ki Defense is still active, it extends the Duration of Ki Defense an additional round. You get +1 Focus point in your Focus Pool.

Meditative Strike (1 action)
(Concentrate, Flourish, Fortune):
Make an unarmed strike. You may use your Wisdom bonus instead of your Str. bonus for the attack roll if it is higher. Roll the attack twice, using the better result. This ability replaces Flurry of Blows in all feats. It only counts as a single attack for MAP.

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What do you mean by Arcane, Occult, or Divine Ki abilities? I don't see any of those notations listed in the Ki spells.

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AnCap Dawg wrote:

You really like spontaneous casters.

I'm not trying to play favorites. I just feel that making Sorcerers and Bards have to learn the same spell at multiple levels is silly. Heightening spells should be second nature for them, and if Wizards, Clerics, and Druids don't have to learn them separately for every level then neither should they. In our games, retraining spells is not an easy task, you pretty much only get to change 1 spell in your Repertoire when you level up, and other than that you are stuck with what you have. The flexibility to change your spell list each day and to have as many spells in your spellbook as you can find/buy (and Divine and Primal casters get every spell on their respective lists for free) are inherent bonuses of Prepared Casters, so it only seems fair to give Spontaneous Casters a bit of a bonus too. So theirs is that they can use any level spell slot they have with any spell in their limited repertoire.

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I liked you changes so much Rainzax, I've replaced my own with yours. I thought I'd show you mu new Research field as well, with changes to make it more in line with your own changes.

New Research Field: Toxicologist: You get Antidote and one level 1 poison in your formula book for free. You get the Poison Resistance feat for free.

I also made another change for all alchemists: The Alchemist’s tools includes a free Formula book in it’s cost and weight, and every Alchemist gets the whole tool kit for free instead of just the free book.

That should help with the Alchemist's bulk problem.

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Why would the Chirurgeon start with a Lesser Elixir of Life? That is a 5th level item. Life has different scaling than the others, he should start with the Minor Elixir of Life, a level 1 item.

Other than that, I like the changes.

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Or don't play a Barbarian. Play a Fighter or Ranger instead. The Barbarian's advantages are higher hit points and bonus damager while raging, but if you want to cast spells during combat, there are better melee class options. A ranger who Hunts Prey has a Barbarian sort of feel, but there is no restricken on concentration.

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In my house rules, I wrote the following:

If the target has Concealment that enables Hide and Sneak, the missiles are affected by the miss chance. If it can’t affect Hide and Sneak, like the Blur spell, they hit automatically.

I kind of wish there were 2 different names for them, not all "Concealment", but it is what it is. So Blur-style, hit automatically, Hiding Concealment, roll the miss chance and if can see them, then it hits automatically.

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Even though it is in the written description, what if they gave Dispel Magic and those other spells a new tag: "Counteract". Then in the section that describes what the tags mean, you can highlight that if you want to counteract a higher level effect, you can heighten the spell's level. That's why they made the tags in the first place, so you don't need to guess (though it isn't entirely consistent, "a fireball doesn't have an Attack tag, so does it make an invisible caster visible again?" You should be able to just say "Anything with the Attack tag will make you visible. Period, end of story.")

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Handy Haversack of Hillarity wrote:
Yeah You'll have to wait for the Drow elf as core race flame war. I'll be right their with you for that one.

That would just be copying D&D 5E, where Drow proudly reside along with the half-human Rosemary's babies called Tieflings… :)

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Ok, I just updated the rules (link in the first post) with the Magic Missile change. Thanks for the suggestion RH. And I also updated the Alchemist tools fix, thanks BellyBeard.

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RH wrote:

Thanks for this! If nothing else, having the errata in one place until Paizo makes a real errata file is very useful.

I like some of what you've done with the other items so far as well.

A couple questions:

First, your spontaneous casters; they would not have to learn the same spell at a higher level in order to heighten it (signature spell notwithstanding)? That solution for them never sat well with me.

Second, What's your thought (if any) on Magic Missile? There is a thread debating if it is subject to the miss chance from Concealed, since it specifically avoids mentioning it in the spell description.

Thanks for the response! Correct, once they know the spell, they can cast it using any spell slot they have available. I think that is covered in the Spontaneous casters vs Prepared casters section. No need to learn it multiple times, I didn't like that either. If the same spell can be cast at multiple levels by someone who just learned it from a book, then someone who has the power inherently by birth should be even more adaptable. And that is the trade off between spontaneous vs prepared, one who can change his spells memorized every day, and one who can't, but can use his slots to power any spell he knows.

I have not read the whole thread, but I can see both sides to it. The question is whether a magic missile can target someone who has concealment. I think I'd rule on a case-by-case basis. If the concealment is something that comes and goes, like a fog that sometimes you can see through but blocks blocks your sight, I'd go with the miss chance. If they don't miss, it hits automatically. If the concealment is ongoing but you see where they are, like the Blur spell, then I'd say it hits automatically. The Blur spell even says "you can't use the concealment to hide or sneak." I think that could be the way to judge it, "Does this concealment allow you to hide and sneak? If yes, roll it. If not, magic missile hits." In fact, I think I'll add that note to Magic Missile in my changes.

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BellyBeard wrote:

In my opinion, the alchemist changes seem to be over-correcting. The advantage alchemist has over other classes is that they can conjure up any alchemical item at will; this extreme flexibility should come at the cost of effectiveness. This is like having access to a whole spell list such as a cleric has, but also being able to spontaneously cast instead of prepare. When those items are also punching above (or even at the same level as) spells gained at comparable levels, there's a discrepancy.

On another note, thank you for compiling some of the unofficial errata that devs have confirmed. This is very beneficial.

Thanks for the response! They still need to have the formula to craft the item, like a wizard need the spell in their spellbook. A wizard may have heard about Magic Missile, but if it isn't in his spell book, he can't cast it. Similarly, an Alchemist may have heard about an Elixir or Mutagen, but if the formula isn't in his formula book, he can't craft it. And an Alchemist only gets a few free infused reagents per day to craft his items. He can prepare some ahead of time at Daily Prep time and craft 2 batches for 1 reagent, or use Quick Alchemy at the time and create 1 batch that only lasts until the start of his next turn. And even during downtime, using reagents that he has bought, he can't create "any alchemical item" without the formula...

I'm sure there will be more Errata than I know about right now, like the Alchemist weight problem. Did you noticed my fix for that under Alchemist? The Formula book is included with the cost and weight of the Alchemy kit. So that way the kit itself would weigh 1 bulk by itself, and the book weighs 1 bulk by itself, but the kit is useless without a formula book so just bundle them together and keep the 2 bulk listing.

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It's definitely less intimidating for new players. I like the dots showing where the stats come from, I always have to just do it on scratch paper with an A, B, C, or 1.

Can you make it form-fillable?

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My question is, why bother converting everything? After this long, I'm sure you're not still playing the same characters you created in AD&D 1E. Just roll up new characters for PF2 set in your world and make whatever changes you need to the PF2 rules. Players can't take the feats, spells, races, and classes that are not yet in PF2, but that's fine, maybe by the time they create the next character after these the it may be available.

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Deadmanwalking wrote:
Fumbus lacks a Formula Book, and his Bulk is pretty deeply wrong (I come to 5.8 rather than 4.5)...assuming there aren't some bulk errors in the corebook. I sure hope there are such errors since if there aren't and you give him his mandatory book he goes to 6.8 Bulk and is encumbered.

For my house rules, I said that every Alchemist's Tool kit includes a Formula book for free, no additional weight or bulk. So the tool kit still weighs 2 Bulk all together, but there is no need to buy a separate Formula book, which saves them 1 bulk and 1 sp.

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Aaron Shanks wrote:
I know the demo is not sanctioned for PFS at this time. Pathfinder Society Scenario #1-00: Origin of the Open Road is designed for level 5 pregenerated characters and available as a free download. Three more entry level PFS Scenarios and one Quest have been released. There are two more Scenarios and a Quest coming at the end of the month. You should be able to find all of those here. All these should be useful at stores.

I just clicked on the link you provided and it says $4.99, not free.

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Why does Fumbus's Bulk say 4,5? Is that is supposed to be 4 Bulk 5 L? The other characters have an "L" after the light weight amounts. Or does it mean 4 bulk with the errata for Alchemist tool's weight, and 5 by the core rules?

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Sara Marie wrote:

Just wanted to let folks know, we currently have all the remaining Lost Omen's World Guide books reserved for pending paizo.com orders.

We are doing a reprint of the book. If you want to start a Lost Omen subscription with the World Guide and the website gives you trouble due to its backorder status, start with the Pathfinder Lost Omens Character Guide and let customer service know you'd like to add the World Guide as well. You can do this up until the Pathfinder Lost Omens Character Guide becomes the "current" item to start (late Sept?) when we are generating October's items.

This is what I was hoping to hear. I hope Amazon gets some copies before October, they said something about automatically cancelling my order in that month if they don't have any yet. 3rd party sellers are trying to sell their copies on Amazon, and they are going for between $41-$69. This is the first RPG book that I've seen that demands a collector's premium price in many years. Lost Omens is the new AD&D Elric/Cthulhu Deities and Demigods!

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Gorbacz wrote:
Samurai wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Shouldn't you be asking Amazon this? Paizo doesn't deal with them directly, Amazon takes their books from a distributor. Could well be that they placed an order there that was well below demand and when they wanted to order more, it was already out of stock.
Amazon claims not to know anything so I figured I'd ask the publisher and see if they knew. I have no idea which distributer sends Amazon their Paizo books or how to contact them, but maybe Paizo does? I at least want to bring the situation to Paizo's attention. I ordered the book back in early July, so if they did them by order date I should have been pretty close to the front, I think. But I've found publishers sometimes don't know about problems actually getting the books they've made.

Again - Paizo isn't dealing with Amazon directly. They deal with the distributor, who has their own say as to who gets the books they take. And as a general rule, distributors don't really deal in the "publisher X wants retailer Y to have more books faster" micromanagement.

Paizo is aware that the book is out of print (obviously) and they're aware that this means some people need to wait, among others because the retailer they ordered with miscalculated the demand. The best thing they can do is print more of the book and ship it, which is what they're doing.

TL;DR - you wanted the book cheap, you ordered with a lumbering world-dominating juggernaut which runs on algorithms and doesn't really care what you think, the lumbering juggernaut is out of stock and waiting for a reprint and you'll have to sit back and wait. Like David said, ordering with Paizo or with a specialised retailer who is better at gauging how many books it needs is usually the better course of action for having the books in your hand as fast as possible.

I hadn't heard anything about reprinting any of the 2e books, I figured whatever they are going to make has already been made. I didn't know it was "Hey, we need 1000 more copies of L:ost Omens for X distributer so that Amazon can get some more (if they ever got any, I don't know). Maybe I'm just more old fashioned, I think of the print runs as a finite thing, 1 and done unless there is overwhelming demand requiring more to be printed or a second print run. But typically, as far as I know, the set up costs are so large that they print all they will need so they don't need to go back for more for a long time. Id just like to hear a straight answer from someone who knows something concrete, not "we don't know if or when we'll ever get any copies."

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Gorbacz wrote:
Shouldn't you be asking Amazon this? Paizo doesn't deal with them directly, Amazon takes their books from a distributor. Could well be that they placed an order there that was well below demand and when they wanted to order more, it was already out of stock.

Amazon claims not to know anything so I figured I'd ask the publisher and see if they knew. I have no idea which distributer sends Amazon their Paizo books or how to contact them, but maybe Paizo does? I at least want to bring the situation to Paizo's attention. I ordered the book back in early July, so if they did them by order date I should have been pretty close to the front, I think. But I've found publishers sometimes don't know about problems actually getting the books they've made.

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I'm not sure if this is the right place or not: I ordered Lost Omens through Amazon, and it said it would be released on Sep 10, today. That is several weeks after Paizo buyers got there's, but today, instead of saying the book is shipping, or has already shipped, they sent me an email saying it is delayed for an unknown length of time and asked if I wanted to cancel my order? The books are printed already, tons of people say they have them, they have been seen in videos from Paizo, so what's going on? Why does Amazon say they have no copies and don't know if or when they might get them?

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Someone already created a Dragonborn Ancestry for PF2: Dire Kobold/ Dragonborn

It was created by KyronValfor. I like the idea that it is a Dire Kobold, and the format is very nice (5E style)!

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Possible Cabbage pointed out that while a General feat to get a Dedication at 3rd was fine, he cautioned against allowing it for further feats in the multiclass archetype. So I changed the wording:

Multiclass Archetype Dedication (General feat Level 2): This feat may only be taken once per character as a General Feat. After the initial Dedication is taken this way, you must buy further Archetype feats by using your Class feats, including your second Multiclass Dedication You can’t choose a third Multiclass.

Also, there is a debate right now about the Multiclass archetypes that have 2 Stat requirements listed, like all the martial classes. What do you think of just requiring 1 of the 2 listed stats instead of both? So Str OR Dex 14, not both at 14?

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Check out the Alchemist abilities Double Brew and Alchemical Alacrity. These let you create more items, and it specifically says they don't need to be the same.

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PossibleCabbage wrote:
Letting people buy (non-dedication) archetype feats with general feats sounds extremely powerful, since I would basically always do that. After all, there's minimal loss in taking your archetype at 3rd level instead of 2nd because normally the problem with "late archetypes" is that you're forced to take, for example, a Feat 4 in a 6th level class feat slot.

Thanks, that's good point. It helps to have a second set of eyes to go over these things. So the Dedication can be General then, but further feats are Class feats only.

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So I originally did as I said above and gave a free General feat at level 2, but I eventually thought about it and changed my mind. While I do give a General feat to get Multiclass Archetype Dedication, characters don't get a free Level 2 General feat to take it, they can spend their regular level 3 General feat if they want. If they can't wait 1 level, they can buy it with their class feat like usual, but buying it as a General feat lets them use either general feats or class feats to buy the further feats, while if you buy the initial feat as a class feat then all further feats must also be bought with class feats. Basically, You can only get 2 Multiclass Archetype Dedications in my game: One through a General feat and 1 through a Class feat. The one bought through the General feat can be advanced with either General or Class feats, but the other one is restricted to only Class feats. This limitation (along with the requirement to have at least 2 more feats in your first multiclass before getting another) is to prevent "I'm a Wizard/Rogue/Fighter/Cleric/Bard" type characters.

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masda_gib wrote:

Oh, that's a fitting addition. I was also wondering how to not make the Fighter dedication more useful for other martials. Didn't think of that. :) I'll use that, thanks.

It's niche enough to not be OP but it is something. I don't know about the balance of giving expert in advanced weapons via multiclassing.... but that's something I can think about later.

Well, the Champion Archetype gives a feat that provides Expert in all armors at level 14, not that much later. And it is only if you have a main class that already gives you Simple and Martial weapon training already...

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I like it! I think I'll add it to my list of house rules. Others pointing out things like this on the message boards is a main way I learn about things that are issues for people.

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No one is responding, I'm not sure if the downloadable sheet is working for others or not. So here are the contents. They are much prettier is the sheet above.

Ancestries:
Dwarf: Death Warden Dwarf (pg 35): This Heritage includes Resistance equal to half your level vs negative energy damage.

Goblin: Rough Rider (pg 48): This feat gives the wolf or goblin dog the Mount ability.

Elf: Elf Atavism (pg 58): You can gain Darkvision with Cavern Elf ancestry, just as the Half-Ork can.

Alchemist
Each of the Research Fields specializes in 1 type of academical item, though any alchemist can learn and use any formula at the listed potency. The Alchemist’s tools includes a free Formula book in it’s cost and weight.

Bomber: Your Class Stat bonus is either Int or Dex. In addition to the 2 extra bomb formulas and the ability to prevent the splash damage from affecting adjacent targets (such as your allies), whenever a Bomber throws his own bombs, they act as it they were the next higher type. So a Lesser acts as a Moderate, a Moderate acts as a Greater, a Greater acts as a Major, and a Major gets an additional +1 attack bonus and +1 die of damage.

Chirurgeon: Your Class Stat bonus is either Int or Wis. In addition to the listed benefits in the book (2 free Elixir formulas and using Crafting as Medicine), when you use or apply your own Elixirs they act as if they were the next higher type. For Elixirs that don’t have specified types or are already at max level, it doubles the Duration.

Mutagenist: Your Class Stat bonus is either Int or Str. In addition to the 2 extra Mutagen formulas you are Trained in Medium armor, and it increases when you increase your Light Armor Prof. (The listed bonus of Unarmed attacks being equal to Simple Weapons is now standard for characters of all classes) Whenever a Mutagenist consumes one of their own mutagens, it acts as the next higher type. So a Lesser acts as a Moderate, a Moderate acts as a Greater, a Greater acts as a Major, and a Major does not suffer from the Drawback.

New Research Field: Toxicologist: Your Class Stat bonus is Int. You get Antidote and one level 1 poison in your formula book for free. You get Poison Resistance equal to your level and have a +2 bonus on saves vs Poison. (This is effectively double the Poison Resistance feat, which you are not allowed to take.)

Revivifying Mutagen (pg 77): This ability may be used only once per mutagen. I does not end the mutagen’s effects.

Enduring Alchemy (pg 78): Items you create with Quick Alchemy last for 1 minute instead of til your next round.

Perfect Debilitation (pg 81): Since True Debilitating Bomb already gives the ability to save only on a Crit Success, this feat expands that to the effects listed under True Debilitating Bomb and also causes anyone who actually fails the save to suffer 2x the effects (so -10 speed becomes -20’ speed, etc).

Perfect Mutagen (pg 81): Since Mutagenists automaticaly don’t suffer from the drawbacks on a Major Mutagen, this feat expands that ability to any other level of Mutagen you craft and for a Mutagenist it doubles the duration of a Major mutagen.

Barbarian:
Second Wind (pg 89): In addition to letting him rage again, it heals him for 1d12+Con mod hit points.

Giant’s Stature (pg 91): You gain the effects of an Enlarge spell until your rage ends (pg 336). You get a +2 status bonus to melee damage, +5’ reach, and Clumsy 1.

Titan’s Stature (pg 92): You gain the effects of a Heightened Enlarge spell until your rage ends (pg 336). You get a +4 status bonus to your melee damage, +10’ reach, and Clumsy 1.

Reckless Abandon (pg 93): You gain a +2 Circumstance bonus to both your attack rolls and damage rolls in exchange for the -2 AC and -1 Saves

Bard:
Esoteric Polymath (pg 100): This feat allows you to swap one of the spells normally in your repertoire for another spell of the same level from your spellbook. You can’t choose the same spell twice because all Spontaneous caster spells automatically count as Signature Spells.

Versatile Signature (pg 101): The effects of this feat are changed. You may spend 10 minutes exchanging one of the spells in your Esoteric Polymath spellbook for any other spell in your book of the same level. You may only do this once per day.

Know-It-All (pg 102): This feat allows you to increase your Knowledge check results by 1 step. A Critical Failure counts as a Failure, a Failure counts as a Success, and so on as described.

Eclectic Polymath (pg 102): You may add 1 Occult spell per day from your spellbook to your repertoire for free, not replacing one of your own spells. You may still add another by replacing 1 of your own using the Esoteric Polymath feat ability..

Impossible Polymath (pg 103): This expands the choices for swapping 1 spell from your repertoire, but you may not get it for free with the Eclectic feat, that is limited to Occult spells.

Symphony of the Muse (pg 103): Not only can you effectively use Harmonize for free to combine 3 compositions into 1 round without spending an action on it, but you only pay 1 Focus point for all 3 and the duration of them all is 1 minute instead of 1 round.

Champion:
Divine Health (pg 111): In addition to the personal benefits described, your Lay on Hands power allows you to attempt to Counteract Disease on the target. Make a save against the target’s disease’s DC (see pg 458). This is a normal save, not your own personal heightened results.

Radiant Blade Spirit (pg 113): In addition to more choices, you now get 2 Runes per day instead of just 1.

Divine Wall (pg 114): In addition to the difficult terrain, anyone who attempts to Shove you or forcibly move you has their effect lowered by 1 degree of success.

Shield of Grace (pg 115): In addition, your bonus to your shield’s Hardness increases to +4

Radiant Blade Master (pg 115): In addition to the choices, you now get 3 Runes per day instead of 2.

Shield Paragon (pg 115): In addition to the listed benefits, your shield’s Hardness is +10 instead of just +2.

Cleric:
Cloistered Cleric First Doctrine (1st) (pg 119): In addition to Domain Initiate, you get your choice of the Healing Hands or Harming Hands feat for free.

Cloistered Cleric Third Doctrine (7th) (pg 119): In addition to increasing your spell attack and save DC, you get the Advanced Doctrine feat for free.

Warpriest Second Doctrine (3rd) (pg 120): In addition to Training in martial weapons, they also receive the Emblazon Armament feat for free.

Ranger:
(pg 167): At level 1, all Rangers get Crafting at Trained and get the Snare Crafting feat for free. This reduces them to 3 + Int mod additional skills

Rogue:
Minor Magic (pg 184): Your Charisma is your casting ability modifier.

Reactive Pursuit (pg 185): You may still pursue as a Reaction even if you can’t end your move adjacent to the enemy because he is faster or you are hindered.

Sabotage (pg 185): This feat counts as a quick Disable Device check. Instead of damage, you can cut a bow string, sever a strap, or otherwise give the item a -1 item penalty, or -2 on a critical hit. This penalty applies to attack rolls, AC, etc. It takes 1 minute to fix. An item can only be sabotaged once.

Delay Trap (pg 186): On a Success, you only delay it until the end of your current turn.

Defensive Roll (pg 188): It doesn’t need to reduce you to 0 HP, it can be any critical hit.

Powerful Sneak (pg 189); When you change the damage type, you also increase them to the next higher die type (d6’s become d8’s).

Wizard:
Spellbook (pg 204): A Wizard starts with 10 Cantrips and 5 first level spells. When a Wizard increases in level, they may add a number of new spells to their spellbook for free. They get either 2 or their Int. mod, per level, whichever is higher. The spells must be from levels they can cast. They may also find spells in scrolls or books or from another Wizard to learn through skill checks (see pg 238).

Feats:
Multiclass Archetype Dedication (General feat Level 2): This feat may only be taken once per character as a General Feat. After the initial Dedication is taken this way, you may buy further Archetype feats as you increase in levels by using either your Class feats or your General feats. If you wish to have a second Multiclass Archetype Dedication, you must buy it as a Class feast and you need to have at least 2 additional feats under your first Archetype before you can choose another. The exception to this is the Human ancestry feat Multitalented. The second Archetype’s feats can only be bought with Class feats. You can’t choose a third Multiclass.

Spells:
Prepared Spell-casters vs Spontaneous Spell-caster: Spontaneous casters have a Spell Repertoire and those are the only spells they know. However, they can Heighten them freely, casting them using any spell slot that they wish, raising them to the highest level they can cast or lowering them to the base level of the spell. In effect, every one of their spells acts as a Signature Spell by the book’s definition. In contrast, Prepared casters must prepare the spell in the higher slot if they wish to Heighten it. They only need to learn the spell once though. If the spell is in their spellbook or their deity grants it to them, they can prepare it in any slot they have available. The benefit of Prepared casters is that they can change their spells prepared each day.

In effect, when a Spontaneous caster casts a spell, mark off the slot used, but they retain the spell to use again as long as they have slots to spend. When a Prepared caster casts a spell, mark off the spell. It can't be cast again until it is prepared again (unless they prepared multiple versions or copies).

Bard and Sorcerer: Signature Spell: Since Spontaneous casters effectively count all their spells as Signature Spells, replace this ability with an additional Class feat of 1st or 2nd level.

Animal Messenger (pg 318): The Duration is 1 week as long as there is a source of food for the animal nearby/along the way, or 1 day if there is not.

Bane (pg 320): The area starts as a 30’ emanation and can grow from there as described.

Bless (pg 321): The area starts as a 30’ emanation and can grow from there as described.

Blink (pg 321): You can attempt to pass through a solid object like a wall or door. You can only pass through 10’ of solid material, so if the barrier is thicker than that or there is not enough space for you on the other side of the barrier it won’t allow you through.

Chilling Darkness (pg 323): Heightened increases each of the damage types by 1d6, not 2d6.

Collective Transposition (pg 324): This spell allows you to swap the positions of 2 creatures within the range. If one or both of them is unwilling, they may each attempt a Will save to resist. They must both fail the save in order to be swapped. Heightened allows you to swap 2 more targets and increases the range by another 30’.

Continual Flame (pgf 326): Heightened increases the ranges of Bright and Dim light by +20’ each

Control Water (pg 326): If there are water creatures in the area, it acts like either the Command spell or the Slow spell upon them, caster’s choice.

Crushing Despair (327): Whenever it says the target is Slowed, they are also Stupefied 1 as well.

Daze (pg 327): When Heightened, the damage increases by the +1d6 and the Stun value also increases by +1.

Moment of Renewal (pg 353): The spell provides healing equal to Con mod x level hit points.

Moon Frenzy (pg353): The Heightened progression occurs at 7th and 9th level instead of 6th and 10th.

Overwhelming Presence (pg 356): The maximum duration is 1 minute

Sigil (pg 369): When the spell is cast the caster can choose 1 type of creature who can see an invisible sigil. It could be an ancestry, a gender, or a character class, or a combination of all 3 (“all females”, “all Elves”, “all wizards”, or “only female Elven wizards” for example)

Sleep (pg 370): A creature that becomes unconscious DOES fall prone and drops whatever it is holding. Sleeping creatures automatically wake up if they take any damage.

Tanglefoot (pg 377): When you Succeed on your spell attack, the target gains Entangled 1. On a Critical hit the target is first Immobilized for 1 round, then Entangled 1 after that. The cspell can be Heightened further: at level 6 is causes Entangle 2, and at level 8 it is Entangle 3

Tangling Creepers (pg 377): Targets in the area are Entangled 1 and must make Escape rolls to end the effect upon them. The Immobilizing vine’s hits pull the victim into the spell’s area, causes Immobilized for 1 round, and then Entangled 1 until it can escape.

Web (pg 384): Failing the saving throw inflicts Entangled 1.

Focus Spells
Champion:
Champion’s Sacrifice (pg 187): Your god looks kindly on your sacrifice for another. You only suffer 1 point of damage for every 3 that was done.

Cleric:
Healer’s Blessing (pg 393): The initial Focus spell heals the target for 1d8+Wis Mod. After that, the spell increases further Heals by the standard amount (+1, +2 more/ heightened).

Protector’s Sacrifice (pg 395): When you redirect the damage to yourself, your god protects you from some of the damage. You suffer 1 pt of damage for every 3 pts that you redirected.

Weapon Surge (pg 399): This spell can be Heightened [+1] The spell remains in effect 1 additional round and affects all attacks until it ends.

Sorcerer:
Angelic Halo (pg 402): All targets in the area regain a number of hit points equal to 1+the spell’s bonus when first cast. Then any further Heals receive the usual bonus effect.

Celestial Brand (pg 403): When Heightened, the bonus dmg is +1d4 and it lasts +1 additional round.

Faerie Dust (pg 404): When Heightened, the penalties increase by an additional -1 along with the +5’ rad.

Glutton’s Jaws (pg 404): When Heightened, increase both the damage by 1d8 and the temp HP by 1d6.

Playing the Game:
Initiative: If you get a natural 20 (Critical Success), all enemy targets are flat-footed to you on the first round until they have acted.

Crafting and Treasure:
Crafting begins at a base amount of time of 4 days, but you subtract the level of the item you are crafting from your own level to modify that amount of time. So a 5th level character who is an Expert at Crafting is creating a level 4 item, so he subtracts 1 day for a total of 3 days. The Minimum amount of time it takes is 4 days if you are Trained, 3 days if you are an Expert, 2 days if you are a Master, and 1 day if you are Legendary.

Tanglefoot Bag (pg 545): A Lesser type bag causes Entangled 1. A Moderate type of bag inflicts Entangled 2, a Greater type bag causes Entangled 3, and a Major type bag is also Entangled 3 but with a duration of up to 5 minutes

Precious Material Armor (pg 578):
Adamantine: Wearing Adamantine armor provides Resistance to all physical damage attacks (Bludgeoning, Piercing and Slashing). The value is 1 for Light armor, 2 for Medium armor, and 3 for Heavy armor. High-grade adamantine doubles these values.

Cold Iron: The Sickened 1 effects are for the Low-grade cold iron armor. For Standard-grade it is Sickened 2, and for High-grade it is Sickened 3.

Dragonhide Armor: While the armor itself is immune to damage from a corresponding energy-type, it only provides the wearer with the listed a +1 circumstance bonus to AC and saving throws against that energy type as it says on pg 579 . It can also be used to craft heavier armors than Light. If it is used to make Medium armor, the bonus increases to +2, and for Heavy armor it is +3.

Elven Chain: The listed bonuses are for Standard-grade. For High-grade it doubles to +4.

Silver Armor: The listed Sickened 1 effect is for Low-grade silver. For Standard-grade it is Sickened 2, and for High-grade it is Sickened 3.

Specific Shields: Any of the Specific Shields can be created from a Sturdy Shield instead of a regular steel shield. Substitute the listed shield values with those of the Sturdy Shield

Precious Material Weapons (pg 599):
Adamantine Weapons: The listed halving of Hardness is for a Standard-grade weapon. With High-grade adamantine, both the object’s Hardness and Broken Threshold are reduced by half.

Cold Iron Weapons: The Low-grade weapons deal the listed Vulnerability in the monster stat. Standard-grade deals double the listed Vulnerability, and High-grade deals 3 times the Vulnerability.

Darkwood Weapon: High-grade reduces the Bulk by 2 steps.

Mithral Weapon: High-grade reduces the Bulk by 2 steps.

Silver Weapons: The Low-grade weapons deal the listed Vulnerability in the monster stats and regular damage to Devils. Standard-grade deals double the listed Vulnerability and +5 damage to Devils, and High-grade deals 3 times the Vulnerability and +10 damage to Devils.

Conditions:
Entangled (new condition): A target who is Entangled 1 has Clumsy 1 and a -10’ move speed. If the effect had an attack roll and got a Critical Success, or if it had a saving throw and you got a Critical Failure, you are first Immobilized for 1 round and then it drops to the normal Entangled penalty for 1 minute. Someone who is Entangled can attempt to Escape using their Unarmed attack roll, or their Acrobatics or Athletics skill against the effect’s DC. If they are successful, Entangled ends. Entangled 2 causes Clumsy 2 and a -15’ speed, Entangled 3 causes Clumsy 3 and a -20’ speed.

Errata:
The Druid gets 5 Cantrips, as it says under Primal Spellcasting. The chart on pg 132 is wrong.

Sorcerers get the Resolve ability at 17th level, same as the Wizard.

An Adventurer’s pack only weighs 1 Bulk.

Humans get Common and 1 bonus language of their choice, plus an additional number equal to their Int mod.

Monk’s Ki abilities are based on their Wisdom.

When your proficiency in Simple weapons improves (including the Wizard’s weapons), your proficiency in Unarmed attacks similarly increases.

Most wizards don’t get a feat at first level as it says in the chart, only the Universalist gets one.

Heroic Recovery stabilizes you at 0 Hit Points and unconscious, but you don’t gain any additional Wounds when you wake up.

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So here are my changes so far for P2. They cover a wide range of topics, from fixing the Alchemist's Research Fields (including adding a new one: Toxicologist), to adding a General feat for multiclassing, to fixes for lots of spells, and a new Condition: Entangled. I also included the Errata that we know about so far at the end, so you have 1 source for all the changes from the core book. This is version 1.0, and I plan to update it as needed. I welcome any feedback and questions about why I made the changes that I did, or suggestions for more changes, or concerns for the ramifications of these changes.

Samurai's Pathfinder 2E Changes

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Excaliburproxy wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:

So now that the LOWG is out, we get a sense of what archetypes are going to be like. Since the APG has 60 pages of them, these things are going to be everywhere, and many of them will be very attractive.

What's less attractive is the actual dedication feat for the archetype, which generally feels like a much less exciting boost than the other feats you could select at 2nd level, but you feel obligated to take them because the later feats in the archetype are generally exciting. This can feel like a tax, and feat taxes are not fun.

So to resolve the issue of "dedications are feat taxes" I'm considering the following variant:

All characters receive a bonus feat at 2nd level which can only be used to select a level 2 dedication without the multiclass tag. If a specific dedication has a requirement you haven't yet met, you can choose to use this feat later.

The actual meaty feats in the archetype are going to need to be purchased with class feats, but they are generally comparable to class feats anyway. I'm inclined to leave multiclass feats out of this because I don't want to completely obsolete the ancient elf before it's even printed, but that might change.

Is this potentially a problem? Or is this not going far enough. Thoughts and concerns are welcome.

I can maybe remedy some other peoples' objections.

How about you just add a general feat that grants you a dedication feat (that you can only take once) and then give everyone an additional general feat at level 2? I think that would give a benefit to everyone even if they didn't want to do an archetype and the retraining rules would cover those who see an opportunity to take an archetype dedication feat down the line.

How does this look?

Feat
All characters get a free General feat at level 2.

Multiclass Archetype Dedication (General feat Level 2): This feat may only be taken once per character as a General Feat. After the initial Dedication is taken this way, you may buy further Archetype feats as you increase in levels by using either your Class feats or your General feats of the appropriate level or lower.

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Blave wrote:
Knockback is a 10tg level Barbarian feat. In fact, it's the very prerequisite for Awesome Blow.

Thank you. I'm surprised large enemies can't knock back smaller foes anymore without being a 10th lvl Barbarian...

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Under the Awesome Blow Barbarian ability, on a Failure it says "You gain the normal effect of Knockback." I can't find it in the status effects at the end or on the GM's screen. Is it hidden away somewhere? Is it a mistake and they actually meant "Shove" on pg. 243? That's my best guess.

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