Ryfyle's page

Pfhoenix wrote:

Just to chime in on the military experience here, I served in the US Army for 16 years and am intimately familiar with the M249 and M240B. Nobody is trained to spray-n-pray, and while I understand there needing to be a penalty of some sort to doing so, using up an entire magazine/cartridge (don't get me started on proper terminology here) to do so strikes me as wrong.

I suppose it might not be so bad if there was a feat in order to make the charge/ammo usage match the number of targets in the cone * 2. Maybe even another feat, having prerequisite of the prior feat, that allows the player to choose their targets within the cone. For the cost of two feats, being able to be actually good with an automatic weapon seems fair to me.

I agree. Using an entire clip is ridiculous.

The whole magazine dump into a crowd seems quite unprofessional for such characters.

Burst 3 rules should be treated carefully. I don't have Modern Path, but in many other systems, Burst 3 just do 1 to 3 times the damage. That makes automatic weapons the best option, bar none.

Here's a link to its Wiki.

http://www.d20modernpf.com/wealth-and-equipment/weapons/#Firearm_Rate_of_Fi re

Burst Fire

As a standard action, the character fires 3 – 10 rounds. On a successful attack, the first round will hit and for every 5 points above the target’s Armor Class, the character gains an additional hit.

Honestly, it's a really straight forward and simple solution.

Sound more like that would work more for a single shot energy weapon rather than a Selective Fire projectile weapon. Long run short it might be better to play off the Modern Path Burst fire rules if one was so inclined.

Ryfyle wrote:

IonutRO wrote:

Burst Fire could be like the Boost property. You spend a full-action to make a single attack with the weapon and if you hit, you deal extra damage as listed in the property. Regardless of if you hit or not, you use up double the ammo.

That would really ruin the point of it. It would be like missing a Bird with a shotgun blast due to some of the pellets missing.

Not the kind of Burst Fire they're talking. They're talking about an automatic weapon just letting out a few rounds instead of doing either single-shot or emptying a clip.

Well with a three round burst you might miss the last shot, typically the first round hits regardless, it would be up to the dice to see if the other two would hit. I would like to see more on what the proposed Boost would do.

Burst Fire could be like the Boost property. You spend a full-action to make a single attack with the weapon and if you hit, you deal extra damage as listed in the property. Regardless of if you hit or not, you use up double the ammo.

That would really ruin the point of it. It would be like missing a Bird with a shotgun blast due to some of the pellets missing.

Ryfyle wrote:

Anybody check out The Modern Path burst fire rules? Might be worth looking at for anybody who wants to add that in to a game.

http://www.d20modernpf.com/wealth-and-equipment/weapons/#Firearm_Rate_of_Fi re

Any thoughts?

I've used it in a Modern game, worked okay for my purposes.

It might pay off just to use that in lieu of other burst fire mechanics that are in the game it's self. I like the Idea of Burst Fire Die, but this could be more simple to use. Kinda wish Paizo thought this out a bit better.

Anybody check out The Modern Path burst fire rules? Might be worth looking at for anybody who wants to add that in to a game.

http://www.d20modernpf.com/wealth-and-equipment/weapons/#Firearm_Rate_of_Fi re

Any thoughts?

Voss wrote:

Micheal Smith wrote:

If I understand it correctly you roll damage once but you effectively hit each target 2 times.

You do not. You just use the ammo inefficiently. And then for some reason shoot the rest off. The former wouldn't be too much of a problem, but the latter is absurd.

As is the idea that you can't focus all the shots on one target (still inefficiently, but the idea that you can't just pour shots at someone is strange and gamey).

Quote:

So if I have a clip with 10 rounds left, if the weapon uses 1 charge I can effectively target 5 people within auto range. But I only deal dame once to each target. So I shoot each person 2 but deal damage once. This seems so lacking.

It is lacking, but you aren't shooting them twice. You're spending twice as much ammo (which again is reasonable, if not generous).

And keep in mind that most of the automatic weapons also already have higher usage rates. The autobeam rife depletes 4 times faster than a normal laser anyway. At 8 (4x2) usage per autofire target, you only can shoot 5 people.

If it were 2-3 shots per target plus 2-3 shots per empty space you have to 'walk' the burst across and then you stop at the last target, I could see it. But emptying 100 shot magazines is just ridiculous.

Quote:

Might as well just focus fire on one baddie at a time an take him out faster.

Yes. As always, area conditions are good, but damage should almost always be focus fire. It's just the way d20 with hit points systems work. Wounding means nothing, dropping a target to zero or inflicting a save or lose condition are the only things that matter.

citricking wrote:

The heavy weapon machine guns/x guns do good damage at least, comparable to the ones without the automatic fire option.

Sometimes. The level 1 cannon and level 2 machine gun have a 1560 credit difference though (and 30' range downgrade). You're paying a lot for a bigger magazine.

The next iteration, you've got a 2500 credit

...

I used a burst fire Die in a lot of home brew stuff where I saw the potential for Automatic Weapons. You rolled the Attack, if it hit you rolled for how many rounds from that burst actually hit, and then you rolled the damage for each round that hit the target. The first round that hits is the round that crits in the event of a critical hit.