| RulesLawyer101 |
Just as a clarification, our GM went over to this rule set recently. So picked up like 6 booksish and have been designing my rogue/wiz (level 1/1 so yeah, not much planning here and already have to make this post). The whole proficiency bit won't be an issue for me, personally, but want to get it hashed out for just the "getting it right" aspect.
Just making sure, seeing the posts brought up in the search, this has been going on for awhile now (8ish years!?). There is no "official" ruling/clarification on this yet? If so, please link (didn't turn up on Google search, sadly). If not, wth!? how can this issue still not have been taken care of by the company by now (these guys are still active as a company, right?).
Rule in question: Universalist Wizard ability "Hand of the Apprentice" on page 82 of the Core, bottom left corner of the page:
"Hand of the Apprentice (Su): You cause your melee weapon to fly from your grasp and strike a foe before instantly returning to you. As a standard action, you can make a single attack using a melee weapon at a range of 30 feet. This attack is treated as a ranged attack with a thrown weapon, except that you add your Intelligence modifier on the attack roll instead of your Dexterity modifier (damage still relies on Strength). This ability cannot be used to perform a combat maneuver. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier. "
OK so the whole proficiency thing boils down to most saying yes it applies. However, if you have to be proficient to avoid the negative, that would assume that any benefits from proficientcies would also apply. Bonuses to hit and damage at the least.
I did see one response that seemed to address it from this thread:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kcw6?Hand-of-the-Apprentice-Universalist#1
"Mikeahlf Feb 26, 2016, 07:42 am
Per the RAW, you are assumed to be proficient with any attacks granted by your race or class abilities.
Wizards don't have to take "ray proficiency" to attack with ray spells, or the specialist-school granted ray or distance attacks. They shouldn't need to be "proficient" to use this power either.
The attack is a function of the power, not of the weapon."
That's pretty good reasoning right there. No negatives or bonuses due to proficiency.
Another issue which I'm guessing everyone will laugh about when I mention it but, because of the wording, is open to interpretation.
What happens if you miss? Rule says it instantly returns after striking. So if you miss....you didn't strike....sooooo no return?
Had it stated "...strike at a foe..." then no prob but it don't so?
I assume the obvious that even misses return but still, two letters takes it from arguable to solid.
I agree that it not being a thrown weapon shouldn't create a penalty for it NOT being a thrown weapon. That just seems to really go against both the spirit and the wording of the ability when it says "You cause your melee weapon to...". I didn't even get the impression there were range penalty issues (didn't occur to me until reading one of the other threads).
My end understanding (after reading all the other misc semirecent postings and the rule):
Proficiency isn't factored in to hit or for damage.
If I GM I'd go with: It CAN be a gauge to determine if it'll trigger the ability at all, though.
Can it be held by the caster and used as a melee weapon (one or two handed, ability states "grasp" and you can grasp things with both hands)? If it's reasonable to the GM that he could use it as a weapon, then it flies (you can grasp a bookcase with both hands, can you use it as a weapon? not really...if the wizard has a belt of storm giant strength, however...). Personally, I'd put it at some kind of ability modifier to determine if it could be used as a weapon. Say, anything that doesn't produce a -8 in standard melee combat (this is where your proficiencies come in) or more to hit would be considered a melee weapon (not fully familiar with the rules to come up with a notch on the bar but you get the idea) meeting a definition of something usable in melee as a weapon.
The definition of weapon should be of functionality, not intent.
Range mods aren't an issue. 3' is the same as 30'. As long as the weapon is in my grasp and the foe is within 30', I can initiate the ability (I don't even need to see the target, according to the ability, but any penalties for "blindness" would be applied imo). I would have to say that the weapon WILL go from point A to B in a strait line. Cover counts for the target. If trying to do into melee with allies, those penalties apply. I can't hold it behind my back and activate at a target in front of me or I'd stab myself in the back or if I tried from under a table at a target near the ceiling, it'd hit the table. There is no auto avoidance involved.
You can attack an inanimate/benign target. Even though the vase on the bookshelf isn't really a "foe", the ability should still activate on the vase.
Weapon returns to the grasp it left after hitting any target (the intended target, self, ally, floor, wall, whatever) or after traveling 30.000001' (in the case of missing).
The attack occurs at the end of an action (takes one full standard to do, so I'd consider the caster concentrating/preparing/triggering for the full round for it to happen at the end-can't really be disrupted, however) so for those with multiple attacks or whatever else is going on around the wizard, they'll go first (unless they're doing full action maneuvers as well).
Why Str mod still applies for damage? No idea but whatever. At least that part is clear. Str mod for damage applies.
Sneak attacks still get their bonuses (assuming target's cover doesn't prevent vital shots).
Enlarged or invisible weapons revert to their natural state once they leave the casters grasp and return to the grasp in that reverted state.
I'm really hoping the company has come up with some errata on this that I just didn't find and somebody here will link.
Thanks for any help/opinions!