Search Posts
The Burrowing arms (DC) armor upgrade grants a burrow speed so long as you wear that armor.
But seeing that specifics trump general, I though I would ask.
heavy : 5+30 for haste= a burrow speed of 35 feet
is this correct?
The FAQ clarifies that movement altering, unless specific does not function in powered armor.
A clear one would be the thruster heels and force soles in larger armor The thruster heels have a function that grants a bonus to the next athletics check but since they are attached to your feet within the larger armor they do not work. RAI, I completely agree with this, it makes total sense for you to just slam into the monitor when you activate these inside the armor. RAW however, nothing like this is noted. Not in the current FAQ either. Things like defensive ball graft or the force bolt graft. Can powered armor be modified to accomodate augments like lighter armor can? Or are augments that are usable in powered limited to straight stat boosts or mental actions?
Not a bloodline per se but the second feat gives you the dragon breath focus spell for the dragon type you select for the first feat. Feats are ;
Can you have a single character that basically has 4 'bloodlines' or for more thematic sake, 4 dragon bloodlines and 4 different breath weapons. Race ; Human
The Reason why I ask if this can work is due to the wording in the first part of the
'You choose to study or worship one type of dragon, and your focus grants you a measure of its power. Choose one color of dragon when you select this feat; if you are a sorcerer with the draconic bloodline, this must be the same type as your bloodline' We do not need to hold to this rule because we are technically not a sorcerer.
'Special You can't select another dedication feat until you have gained two other feats from the dragon disciple archetype. If you later take the sorcerer archetype, you must choose the draconic bloodline.' Due to this wording, I am assuming the restriction would only come into play if we were to take the Sorcerer dedication after we take Dragon Disciple, because we took it in this order, this rule has no effect either. This is incredibly specific and does not come together until level 16 at the earliest. But can it be done?
How would you deal with a Nanocyte gobbling up a high level item that you would normally not be able to buy? There are several scenarios where an item appears on the sheet that is at least 4 levels higher than the party level for that tier. This is no problem during the playtest as you generate a new character each session, aside from one problem, the item is still consumed. During full society play, how would purchasing interact with the Nanocyte? If a level 10 Nanocyte consumes let's say, a level 14 weapon during the session ;
2.would they be allowed to spit the weapon back out at the end of the adventure? 3.would they not be allowed to consume that item at all? Furthermore, would a consumed item be deleted from the chronicle sheet?
Perhaps it was added so solarians feel somewhat good early on without crippling their resolve pool? I mean, it was and still is common for solarians to start with one blitz soldier level to fix their initiative and resolve pool.
Whining on the forums is silly and does not work, I am reasonable enough to know this. Hammerjack showed some solid math that shows that ranged will pull ahead of melee but that melee also benefits much more from combined arms. The Argument being made afterward was solid but my point still somewhat stands somewhat, ranged pulls ahead but jolly cooperation helps melee much more than it does ranged, allowing them to outperform ranged with teamwork. Nevertheless, Hammerjack convinced me in the end so I stopped partaking. This is what general discussion is for, asked a question, we discussed, got a satisfying answer.
So melee will pull ahead against a flat footed enemy with
Considering the melee in these calculations is running around with melee striker, wouldn't it be fair if the ranged also ran with a gear boost? Bullet barrage for a reaction cannon would add 4 damage at lvl 10 laser accuracy is another rare attack roll increase.
Take a look at how haste works in starfinder. Its not an extra attack when you hold still anymore, its full on pounce. Haste circuit consumes a swift action, so you cannot full attack on the turn you use it as a full attack requires all your actions on that turn. Flanking is no certainty. Gunner harness is available to everyone so all non sharpshooters are going to at most have a -2.
Vanguard do not get three attacks in a full attack, only 2. They are the only full bab class to not get three attacks in a full attack by class.(don't know about special cases here) So I believe the only max applying here is the 2x crit one. BigNorseWolf said]No. What I'm saying is that there are a lot of ways melee can overcome the problems you're laying out. Haste circuit and jetpacks are bottom line optimization for melee. Swift action, 70 feet of movement, and whack is good enough for most fights. 140 feet of movement followed by a whack is also really, really doable. It's a pretty rare fight thats going to be further away than that. I find it odd that Ranged playstyle can get attack roll advantages through gear alone, giving them an innate advantage in accuracy, they avoided this at first, this is what I liked about starfinder in the first place. Wether they use a jetpack, haste circuit or WE, melee will always have to close the gap wich gives them an innate disadvantage against range, it's not that they cannot close the gap but that they have to. This in addition to Ranged attackers getting the only easily accessible attack roll increase in the game skews it in their favor. 4 attacks from a ranged character are going to do more damage than 3 from a melee character and like you said, combat tends to be short. But I also support the idea that melee has their own role in the party to hold the line.
Figure of speech, standard for jetpack, swift for circuit, move action to move into position for a charge. Playing a hit and run soldier myself, pretty ok but let me tell you how awful it feels to just have opening volley sitting in my feat slots while I barely do anything with it. I assume you mean soldier with finesse striker rather than strangler. Also : Debuff Master?
Only Blitz Soldiers can Charge as a standard action. That flying lizard needs to spend a full round activation his jetpack and his haste circuit, Ranged person can just stand there and shoot something else when the first falls over. Edit : Just saw your reply, noticed when typing, sorry about that.
This is a good one, nice find. requires a lot of investment though, 1 feat and 1 gear boost to reduce the penalty by 1, and it's soldier exclusive. Does not seem fair compared to 2000 credits
Poor melee get plenty of damage wich is why it hurts more when it is very hard to do so more than once per round, even more painful when not at all. Poor melee don't have any toys, part figure of speech. What I really liked about Starfinder is that there was a much lower amount of numbers. Heavy weapons required investment into strength so you could wield them, so to deal more damage you were less accurate, this was fair. Introduce Gunner Harness and bipod, no strength required, that 8 str ysoki, he can use a gun the size of a golden retriever with no effort, he has a leather strap so it's K. Let's not forget things like parting shot, fussilade, shot on the run.
Remember the dumb craze at the start? Every melee soldier had to take blitz, every solarion had to take 1 level in blitz soldier because otherwise you would lose initiative almost all the time due to having low dex, because you need some con to survive in melee, you get a static boost yea, but so does the enemy leopard that is eating your face. -------------- It's not a fair comparison to only look at level 10. In low level SFS scenarios I see things ripping stuff apart and it's almost always those swarms of magic missiles because I am still standing still because of my low initiative. Nevermind, the operative one shot the only enemy I could attack next turn. /S Sounds a lot like the old martial vs caster debate to me.
So I can smack you from over here instead of over there? If you walk away I can smack you. IF I have someone else that goes into melee combat in my party, I have a better chance of smacking you. I can count the amount of times this happened to me on one hand. And if you do something incredibly cheesy you can have your augmented 6 armed skittermander smack someone into next week. Sorry but no, making the argument that melee is more 'fun' than ranged may work for you, but not for me. The fluff that I am running up to someone with an entire armory taped to their back and just punch them in the face is the only melee fantasy I can relate to at least. Great for you if you can find more fun in it though.
Actually the full calculation was made without the bipod, reaching 50%, adding the bipod would remove the penalty completely, resulting in 55%. So you only need the Gunner harness for that calculation. -----
---- And I'm sorry, but what part about melee toys being feats and combat styles do you mean? The entire point I made was that from a numbers perspective, ranged has an advantage, Figure of speech aside. Could you give me some examples here?
I was not aware this feat existed, thank you for showing it to me. This would indeed be very strong, But juggernaut boosters need you to move at least 20 feet toward the target in a straight line. Add leverage is legit good though. Full attunement is required for plasma sheath to add additional damage.
I am flattered by your good faith and I also completly agree that melee and ranged combined arms is the way it should be. I just dislike the fact that ranged keeps getting new toys that just flatout improve their numbers while melee get's no such thing.
I also note that this example uses a sharpshooter soldier for the extra reduction to full attack penalty, but not a melee soldier using any fighting style benefit's (like wrathful warrior bonus damage, or armor storm smashing through for unarmed damage on a bullrush, followed by AoO), or a solarian who would more accurately represent the high end of melee damage. I completely agree on wrathful warrior adding damage but that would not solve the accuracy discrepancy. The Style is also Banned in society play. It would increase damage per hit by +4 for a total of 40.
Solarians have reduced penalty on full attacks so their hit chance would increase to 40%.
3d6base solar weapon,2d6 lesser graviton crystal
5d6(17avarage)+29 for 46 damage total. Lot more damage and better hit chance so better right?
Heck with light armor and low Dex you might already be dead. Armor storm is another good point, but the AOO only goes off if you hit the bull rush and you beat it by enough to reach 10 feet, with the innate bonus you chance to hit a 10 feet bullrush is the same as a full attack hit. But Contrary to a full attack, if you miss the bullrush you lose any chance to do damage at all, so it is not really a rebuttal to this. --------------------- The soldier needs a turn to setup haste circuit to full attack properly, and until then they can move up and whack once. The ranged does not need to use biped at all to still have a significant advantage over melee, I applied this in the calculations and they can still full attack from the getgo.
Please show the math for this,
That is up for debate. Bigger numbers are not always better. Comparing a lvl 10 heavy weapon vs a level 10 advanced 2hander. Heavy Reaction cannon : 3d10 16750 credits 100ft
Also noticing that ranged weapons are cheaper. Anyway, comparing the two in reasonable circumstance. This is assuming
Full attack vs average CR 12 KAC : 27 Melee : +14/14(10bab)+7Str+1focus) 3d10+(10feat+10striker)
Ranged : +17/+17(10bab)+7Dex+1focus) 3d10+(10feat)
While Melee does more damage per hit, ranged has a much better chance to hit. From 3-10 to 5-10, thats almost a 66% increase in accuracy. There is nearly no combat that starts with everyone within 10 feet of eachother, not even mentioning that the ranged soldier has high dex and therefore a much better initiative, making it more likely for him to full attack.
So now that the game has had a few years I keep noticing, why are ranged
From gunner harness to bipod, You don't have to invest in strength to use heavy weapons anymore wich was their only downside, and these are stupid cheap. Heavy Gunner harnass combined with a bipod and sniper atack allow you to make your full attacks with no penalty to hit. Melee needs to run into range and take fire and then when they get to full attack, they will do less damage than ranged just because they have less chance to hit? If you just hunker down with a heavy weapon and a gunner harnass, you can pump all other stats, ending with better survivability and better damage. 'But you are bad in melee!'
Seriously? What gives?
From the abilities description I read that you can climb any smooth surface, upside down or otherwise. This means you can stick to the ceiling like spiderman. Normally you cannot do this as you can only climb an overhang with handholds, requiring a check, you need handhold or you cannot climb it. Spiderclimb makes you spiderman, no need for checks on any solid surface, smooth or otherwise. A climb speed kasatha operative can hang from a ceiling with handholds and fire their pistol without falling. A spider climb kasatha operative can hang from a polished marble ceiling with no handholds and fire their sniper rifle without falling.
Athletics rules for climbing state that you can climb a ceiling or an overhang, but with handholds only and even that is already dc 30. From what I read, spiderclimb allows you to do this while there are no handholds at all, like a spider. You also forgo the need to make climbing checks at all, even in hazardous situations, a normal climb speed does not grant you this. So Climb speed left, spider climb right. Overhangs with handholds--any suitable surface, upside down or otherwise.
Solarians can use unarmed strike damage and abilities with their solar shield. Does this cause things that normally only apply to 'wielded' weapons to also apply to the shield? I am asking this because a recurring opinion I have heard is : unarmed strikes are a part of your body so you cannot wield them but the solarian is said in the text to 'wield' their shield. Examples that I am referring to are : Star Knight Pike Mastery
1) This is fair, it took 2.5 years for this FAQ to come out.
2) While it would be cool for power armor to work like mecha,
3) Numerical altering does not work, Rules are Rules, paizo campaign.
4) Not unplayable, but was planning on flying in power armor, hyped the
5) My gratitude for staying for the long haul.
From what I understood, these would probaply be how it works. Except the difficult terrain stuff, or paralysis. All numerical alteration is out the window.
I am aware, but saying it only applies when convienient is the opposite, if a speed can be changed it can be both increased and decreased. If a speed cannot be changed you can do neither. It cannot only be positives but it also cannot only be negatives.
... A) This point is actually made moot already, upgrades that you put in your light armor while wearing power armor do not function. This isreasonable and has been FAQ already B) The system is not perfectly consistent, agreed. There does however,
For the fourth time, yes I understand how the ability works, it can still be read in the wrong way, adding a few words makes it immune to that sort of interpetation. To be clear, yes I agree that it works , but 1-10 is still an way to error. Slippery slope right here, these things are absolute extremes, why isn't all exploration done by drones? Because then there would be no game.
Why can power armor speeds not be interacted with, because rules! The mechanic adjusts their armor to have a different speed, so we have established that an armor's speeds and movement types can be interacted with. There is no perfect rule yes, but you can lay a foundation to judge case by case situations fairly, judging by the fair bit of discussion, not everyone is on the same page about the current rules on this. A pilot has a MK III speed suspension, he climbs into the armor, the speed suspension does not work because the armor replaces his speed, makes sense. A pilot jumps into his armor, let's use this example as a case study.
To add another example. A vanguard is piloting power armor, can he channel his entropic strike through the armor? For ease of play I would say yes, it's magical void powers. Or is it, he is not using his own 10 god-given digits so he cannot do jack.
They might be differently worded, but most of my arguments are repeats, therefore it can be assumed that the opposite is true. 1)We agree on this, the armor is not a seperate entity, it is equipment that replaces base stats. 2)I think you misunderstood, I am asking : why would these spells ignore the armor if it is just part of the pc? (edit : I worded it very badly, apologies) 3)As we have just established, the armor is just pc equipment that replaces some stats, so why can these stats not be interacted with.
4)So we agree that there is a way to interpret the sentence in that way, if in your words : you are very generous.
5)Agreed, common sense does not always equal RAI but it often does. 6)As we just said, Rai does not always equal common sense but it often does, if the rules make no sense but work as written, that just means people will hate the rules or find ways to abuse them. That is why this part of the forum exists.
You are repeating yourself. 1)Once again I wholly agree with the specifics trump general argument.
2)Increasing the armor's speed is different from adding to the critter inside it. Yes of course this makes sense, floor is floor so to speak. So why does Haste/slow/fly target the creature inside the armor as a seperate entity? Has it ever been established that the armor is a seperate entity from the user? No it has not, armor is part of the creature, else everybody that teleports would arrive with no clothes. TLDR : why would these spells ignore the armor in the first place? 3)Yes I agree that the intention of the ability is for the user to fly while using power armor, as I stated no less than 3 times by now.
This blatant rules lawyering as you call it is just stating that;
4)RAW, force soles do not interact with any of these rules is true and therefore should work, fly does not.
There is plenty of argument to make for this, that is true enough, Just saying : Rules make no sense,deal with it, is no argument at all.
Stating that you don't have a factual argument (on this particular point) with the ONLY reason given being you don't like it would be an ad hom. But other reasons were given, very obvious ones. Agreed, not Ad hom, but I did not state that, but your obvious reasons are just repeats without adressing the arguments. 1)Specific trumps general, already admitted I misread the power armor jockey, so that one just works. 2)The argument is, why does casting haste/slow or other not work on the armor being used by a character, it is their armor, it is part of them so to speak, it is not a vehicle, it is not a seperate entity, it is just a 'critter' wearing armor that replaces 2 base statistics. As for adding speeds, read the class feature. Versatile Design (Ex) 10th Level
It specifically notes that it grants YOU, the wearer said bonus.
Hence why I suggested this errata to COM.
Gone for a few hours, but yes this is the counterpoint here, slow also targets the creature like haste does, so either both work or neither works pertaining to the altering of the numerical value of it's speeds. Also my apologies, I misread the powered armor jockey, the archetype itself functions. The prototype mechanic however does not, as the armor grants the creature wearing it a fly speed, wich cannot work with powered armor, as the armor still does not have a fly speed, this can be fixed by adding a simple errata. If your armor prototype is a suit of powered armor, any alternate form of movement you would gain from this ability is instead applied to your armor. This is just plain not true. To the point that it seems you don't like the faq enough to TRY to read it as a problem. While I do not approve the state of this, that does not mean I cannot make a factual argument. Saying my argument is wrong because I do not like the ruling is entirely inappropriate. Just to get my 2 cents out, I was part of a discussion on a different thread that was also about this problem. The conclusion we came to is that : there are so many different effects that using the same rule for every single one of them would a an exercise in time wasting. So we argued that baseline effects that affect a power armor user would not function, think speed suspension, the fleet feat, the blitz soldier, implanted wings. But effects that are not active by default on your character would function as they are applied after the armor, so haste and slow would increase and decrease your speed as per normal, all levels of the fly spell would work normally, force soles, gravimetric harness perform their roles as intended. If you mantain that these things target the creature rather than the armor, it is very easy to fall of a slippery slope that the armor is a seperate entity, wich is such a stupid deep pit that it is better to avoid it entirely. TLDR So the interpetation we used was : The armor only replaces some base statistics, it's base speeds overwrite your own but can be interacted with as normal.
I did not expect this from someone who kept warning people about taking things to literally, slow works because it is not a numerical penalty to speed but it causes the creature to move at half speed. Common sense says that a creature that is forced to move at half speed has a reduced speed does it not? As a hypothetical example, due to the way haste is written, each creature gains a 30 feet speed increase up to double the base. Would it function if it said a hasted creature's speed is doubled, up to a 30 feet increase. Complaining about people taking things to literally but then using the most RAW interpretation of the rule avoiding common sense all together, for lack of a better word, lacks any common sense. Would it also work the other way around, for example : two years from now, soldiers get a new gear boost or fighting style that allows them to double their movement up to a 30 feet increase once per rest. Would this then also work? If so, it would probably be a bad idea to take things so literally, you yourself commented on the thread I linked to earlier, warning us to not take things literally. We didn't and we arrived at a conclusion most people agreed with. Going back to the FAQ, Common sense dictates that power armor jockeys and protoype mechanics should be able to increase the speed of their armor. But due to the way it is currently written, they cannot. An FAQ is meant to allow very little room for interpretation as to prevent rules debate at tables.
This is what the main discussion was about.....No. It's not set up like that. There does not have to be any balance to this, it could just be all bad and it probably is. Before we go down another rabbit hole, I do agree that hold person, paralyze and difficult terrain function as normal against powered armor. The only debate, at least for me is : Can a haste/fly/slow spell or specific augments like Gravimetric harness or the effect of the augmented archetype class feature increase/decrease a power armor users speed. I'm sorry if you explained this already but could you explain this with the probably most repeating example. Why then would slow lower a powered armor's speeds, but haste would not increase it? The only real confusion is about literal changes to speed.
This is what the main discussion was about. But if I am understanding this correctly, you are saying that Power armor is subject to all negative effects regarding movement but none of the positives. So the power armor counts as part of the creature only when it regards debuffs but when it comes to buffs it's suddenly a no go zone. Either it works on both side of the spectrum or none. The other meaning I can understand from this is that you are saying that powered armor just replaces a set amount of statistics of the PC and that these can be modified after the fact, wich is a conclusion we reached here. Similarly, I don't think that the ability...unavailable, sure that fly speed will work on Power Armor. I completely agree with that the intention was for the armor to be able to fly yes, that is indeed common sense. But due to the way the ability and the FAQ are currently worded, it cannot function, while you can obviously adjust this in a home campaign, Society with power armor is still rather Borked.
Yeah, you're 100% correct. This is exactly what I was trying to avoid when we didn't have the FAQ answers. We tried my friend, but apparently paizo thinks differently. Aside from this sillyness though, they literally wrote down that any effect that modifies a power armors speed does not function. Note the usage of the word 'effect' here, this causes it to include ANYTHING, class features, scenario effects, the works. The prototype armor mechanic can cause their power armor to grant the character a fly speed, but this FAQ establishes that a power armor's speed overwrites the PC's, so you cannot use the class feature while using the class feature. Might want to errata that in COM right away, probably so that it says that your armor gains a fly speed instead, but that adjusts the speed so that doesn't work. Meanwhile the power armor jockey increase a power armor's base land speed by 10, which once again does not work now.
|
