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Reshy wrote:

But yeah, I'm playing a 4th level wizard right now, and that spell is inconsistent enough that I'm kind of regretting spending gold to learn it.

Hmm, at 4th level you will always have at least a -1 atk/dmg effect, so long as you hit. And half the time you will have at least -2, an anti-bull strength when the save is made. Heck, next level you can take Empower Spell for your feat and do an empowered ray of enfeeblement, for at least -2, and up to -8 (on a roll of 6 and failed save).

But I'm spending a whole round for a -1 or -2, maybe a -3 at the best of times? I don't like feeling like my actions don't do anything. Which is what the spell does. Most of the time the other players don't even notice the effect of the spell, because it's so minuscule and they're always making the save, due to most things with high strength having good fortitude (Also I miss a third of the time due to low to-hit rolls). In general Sleep and Charm Person have been much more effective to me in general than the Ray has. Charm Person has massive utility, whereas ray of enfeeblement is only mediocre at weakening enemies. So I'm strongly regretting having bought it.

In 3.0/3.5, ray of enfeeblement didn't have a save, and was considered one of the most effective ways of ending a fight against anything based on attacking with strength. Pathfinder added a save for half the effect, balancing it out somewhat with other options.

Unfortunately, this does mean that at low caster level it can have zero effect, on a save with onlya 2 or 3 penalty going to 1. Other than that though, the spell is still quite effective, roughly equivalent to the doom spell, often even if the save is successful.

That it is a fortitude save is simply appropriate, and makes it worse for rogue/bard types generally, and wizardy types defensively (vs combat maneuvers and such). The potential of -5 attack and damage (at CL 4+) is a nice option.

Wouldn't it make more sense for it to be Will or Reflex? It's a Ray effect, it's magically imposed strength penalty, so Will to dull the effects or reflex (because you dodge the ray partially) seems like it'd make more sense then fortitude.

But yeah, I'm playing a 4th level wizard right now, and that spell is inconsistent enough that I'm kind of regretting spending gold to learn it.

Hello, I've just started playing pathfinder recently and I wanted to know why Ray of Enfeeblement is a fortitude save for half-effect. The effect targets strength, so more often then not you're expected to use it against the dumb brute... except that the dumb brute usually has good constitution and good fortitude save, so it almost never gets it's full effect. So why would you use this spell?* I personally can't think of a good situation where you'd prepare or take this as a known spell.

*I don't know a lot about metamagic so please don't bring it up.