Reliken's page

Up the penalty for speeding to a year in jail with an additional 6 months per 5mph over ... you decimate the number of offenders you have. Now no one is going anywhere near 80MPH because that's 5 years in jail.

Ryan is setting up the same thing, except in his world their are fewer cops and you get 20 to life if you get caught going even 1 mile over the speed limit.

This doesn't work in real life because laws go to court and have to be clear. GW is making a game that has policy and that means they can make the rules up however they like and change them whenever they like. Does it suck... sure, but that's only if you are in the habit of being a jerk.

1) Harsher sentencing has been shown to not really have much of an impact on law breakers. See; DUIs, drug use (especially crack cocaine), prostitution, and so on.

2) The problem with "there are fewer cops and you get 20-to-life for going even 1 mile over and GW can make the rules up however they like and chain them whenever they like" is that it's a system that openly invites and embraces corruption on the side of the moderation team.

Get into a disagreement with a moderator? Sorry, a week ago you said something offensive and now you're banned. Make a trade with some guy that ends up being not very good for that some guy? Unfortunately that guy is friends with a moderator - looks like you're getting banned now!

The reason in real life laws "need to be clear" and go to court is because it forces accountability onto those who enforce the law, and it allows for protections of abuse of power. Without clear laws and an ability to hold those with power accountable, there would be nothing stopping the State from becoming a corrupt, totalitarian, power-hungry, irrational entity. And if you think that "man is inherently good" and "would choose to use their power for good, not for evil," I encourage you to look at pretty much anything from history ever where those in charge had that much power.

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SUMMARY: If there's no defined rules, if the only definition is "whatever we say, goes," there's 0 accountability for moderators, there's every reason to cheat and game the system if you are a moderator or have the ear of one, and there's no fair process of appealing or knowing if a moderator's decision was a subjective stretch or an actual fair decision.

Caedryan wrote:

Well, I still think you have a point. It's somehow ironic - that's my European view - that it's perfectly okay to poison people, to shoot them, to stick a sword in your enemy's chest, to probably kill entire tribes of goblins to put weakening curses (-> torturin) and what not, while it's forbidden by banning law to talk about a sexual act.

The internet is rampant with sexual predators. Since this won't be a "Mature Content" game, children will be online. Allowing sex, minors, and adults in the same forum is usually not a good idea. GW's implementation of this rule is not only to protect children playing the game, but to protect its naive adult population as well. You don't know who is on the other of the keyboard. Some adults can be manipulated by young teens and while the teen may have instigated the whole situation its still the adult that gets charged. Its a common sense rule aimed at protecting children. It keeps GW and Paizo's names clean in the public eye.

Actually, the specific rule does NOTHING to address this. The rule says you can talk about sex as long as it's in a PM and it's mutual - meaning if some sexual predator develops a friendship with some kid, and the kid says he's open to it, they can talk about sex and the child can get abducted or whatever it is you're afraid of.

Banning public mentions of "yeah, I enjoy sex" really doesn't do ANYTHING to combat child abduction. And, for the record, while that DOES happen via the Internet sometimes, the actual statistics and rate of that sort of this is pretty statistically small - people just freak out about it and assume, like you did, that "the Internet is rampant with sexual predators."

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I've seen a lot of communities (whether they be in games, private servers, forums, whatever) that try to implement content/context filters like Goblinworks has mentioned here - you can technically type any word you want, but type a certain combination of words in the wrong order (to make a statement "sexual" or "offensive") and you'll get banned. They've all failed miserably.

The problem is that what is "offensive" and what is "sexual" and what is actually mentioning "bodily fluids" and what is an innocent "BRB, gotta take a pee" is totally completely and entirely subjective. Not just to the players, but assuming you have enough moderators to handle the website each one of them will have different personal views of what is offensive and what is sexual and so on.

This type of filtering doesn't seem like it works in the modern era of the Internet. It's trying to tighten your grip around grains of sand, and that just causes them to slip through your fingers. Obviously GW is going to try it, but I'm really expecting it to not work, to drive away players, or to backfire.

As much as I respect their principles and reasons for wanting to enact those context filters... I don't think it's a good idea.

And I'm sorry if people can't say what they want in public chat, but if my 13 year old son is playing a game, I don't want him hearing about bestiality, S&M, or any other left field adult shenanigans. Good call GW.

But it's A-OKAY if he hears about a gang of robbers waiting for a lone bard to exit a pub late at night in a back alley and club him to a bloody pulp until he's lying on the ground, drowning in his own blood, as they steal his every possession and leave him to writhe and slowly die in agony on the ground?

Under this system, a player nation can't go out and start conquering the world, even if it excels and is the very best and is undeniably the most powerful player nation... because all of the other nations can just choose to not fight it.

Wars will likely only ever occur between similarly matched/sized forces, never leading to a smaller country going up against long odds and coming out the victor, or a juggernaut force laying waste to small settlements.

I don't know, I get you don't want to force players into PvP wars if they don't want to be in them, but... telling me that my nation can't invade/attack/take over (or lose to) this neighboring country because the other players don't want me to really takes away from the whole immersion "players create the game world and decide what to do and make their own stories" aspect that's supposed to be at the center of the game.

Are there any plans to address this, or... is this just something we'll have to suspend our disbelief about?

Reliken wrote:

Given your primary pursuit is knowledge...

I understand the confusion, but that's not really accurate.

Our primary In-Character pursuit is building our library.

Our primary Out-of-Character pursuit is probably best explained in this post. In essence, we want to fully engage the game at every level, which means we'll be doing everything we can to be a top-tier Player Nation.

Well, in-character there are justifications for us working together, and there are certainly some out-of-character goals that coalesce as well. Nothing to help your top-tier player nation like the premiere military of the server ;)

Onishi: I definitely think you're onto something there. A high-functioning military will certainly require significant training, and having another chartered company pursuing similar goals would help give both of our companies a bar to shoot for.

I agree that in all likelihood overtime it seems we'll either end up as stiff competition with each other or join forces, and I could see both results ending up as a good arrangement for both of us.

Yeah, I agree. Heck, even when playing Pathfinder, that kind of rings true, doesn't it?

If your party just goes barreling into a dungeon, they generally end up unprepared and makes things far more difficult for themselves. However, if they had spent some time doing research into the building, the organization that runs it, if they had tried to learn whatever they could about the leader of this organization, they can often times can valuable insight; secret passageways, what kind of keys they'll need, what the password is to get in the employee entrance, the leader's weakness (be that a physical, exploitable weakness, or a personality one - like his interest in women).

I think it could benefit the game if there was the opportunity to invest some time into research that resulted in a benefit. Granted, I don't think things should necessarily be IMPOSSIBLE if you didn't do the research beforehand - but I definitely think it should make some things easier.

Will there be a set, static amount of formations and tactics, or will players be able to invent their own strategies and tactics?

Will armies be forced to contend with each other - each in formation - one force on one force? Will formations work a bit like rock-paper-scissors in terms of what formations beat which other formations?

Could a commander break off his army into smaller chunks for more advanced battle tactics, IE hammer and anvil, surprise flanking, etc?

Playing as a part of a team where you have to follow someone else's directions and perform a seemingly monotonous series of actions is not what many people want out of an MMO. For them we have a whole world of adventure!

I think the logical solution here would be to either have the soldering either A) not be based on a monotonous series of actions or B) INVOLVE a monotonous series of actions, but also involve an element that is a bit more active, reactionary, and/or skill-based.

file
   fa-hyl, noun
1. an orderly line or row
2. Military
a) a line of persons or things arranged one behind another (distinguished from rank).                 b) a person in front of or behind another in a military formation.

Name: The First File
Role: Serve as a professional military for hire
Alignment: Lawful Neutral - Members may also be Lawful Good or Lawful Evil
Patron Deity: Kols, the Oath-Keeper, God of Duty.

Command Structure: The First File will be structured as a military with a clear chain of command. All members of The First File will follow the orders of their superiors without question; hesitation on the battlefield leads to death. Rank and promotion will be determined by two factors. [1]; Accomplishment [2]; Seniority.

The Commander-General of The First File has first and final say on all matters. However, he will always take into account the advice and perspectives of all members of the company, from his highest-ranking officers to the greenest private.

Ideology: The First File aims to function as a peerless and unparalleled military force-for-hire. We hold duty above all else. We do not care about the fight of good versus evil - we simply care about getting the job done. Such distinctions mean nothing to the First File, and only distract from our paramount objective: fulfilling our duty. We will never break a contract - our word is our bond. Duty and honor above all else.

Function: We will primarily charter our services to smaller nations and kingdoms that have need of a powerful military. Our objectives will be as varied as any militaries; sometimes we'll simply escort convoys, and sometimes we'll lay siege to enemy territory. Sometimes we'll face our enemies in open combat, sometimes we shall use stealth and guile to get the better of our opponents.

The name "First File" refers to both our function and our status. As a military unit, we will become the very best; first, foremost, ahead of the competition. Our rank-and-file will be far and above the quality of most any other military.

Who Should Join The First File? The First File will act as an unrivaled and unsurpassed military force. Even the armies of Kings and nations will pale when compared to our army; we shall be the best trained force The River Kingdoms have ever seen.

If you wish to serve as part of something greater than yourself, are willing to follow the orders of your superiors without question, and ultimately join the fiercest fighting force in all the land, you would be openly invited to join The First File.

How do I join?
Submit an application to me, describing yourself, why you want to join The First File, and why you think you would be a good fit for our proud and noble organization.

Feel free to ask any and all questions; I'll answer them to the best of my ability.

I don't know how much talk there has been about the mechanics of your system, but I think there are a couple of things that could be learned from the great experience (and later abysmal failure) that was Star Wars: Galaxies.

Before it got ruined, SW:G The economy was really, truly, 100% player driven. Based on your goals and ideas for this project, I think that is what you want for Pathfinder Online, too.

The clothes you wore, the guns you shot, the speeder you drove, the glasses you wore, the tables you put in your house, the house you built, the armor you lost, the minerals, the gas, the food, the inorganics, every single thing that went into gear, decorations, building, architecture, vehicles, was entirely farmed, cultivated, crafted, and sold by players.

It was honestly amazing.

You could become a server-wide famous gunsmith, or you could be his upstart competition with undercut prices, or you could be the smuggler who sliced the guns people bought from him for a wicked price (because it was "illegal"), you could blanket miles of the landscape with your gas or mineral harvesters.

It's also really important to know that there was no universal auction house, and the presence of one would have ruined and undermined that whole economy. You often had to hop planets and drive/walk yourself for half an hour to some kick-ass armorsmith's house, and sometimes you'd arrive only to find some reseller bought all his gear and was selling it for a jacked up price the next town over. Things like that can't happen with an auction house.

Even just the experience and aesthetic was spectacular and unique and unlike anything I've ever seen since. It was amazing having one of 50 houses in a player city on Tatooine, logging on and seeing lots of people walking around the bustling city, seeing all the players who owned different shops that sold their own or other players' goods, from weapons, armor and vehicles to even houses (there was an architect job). You could even go to the cantina to be entertained by a real person who played a musician character too.

Aside from missions involving NPCs, there were massive pvp faction wars in and between player built cities that sprawled across the landscape. It was EVE online without the mathematic drudgery, with all the PvP of WoW and none of the cartoony and kiddy-grade "style."

It was a phenomenal game. ... then they brought in Jedi in the dumbest way possible, and the integrity of a community that made servers feel like a living thing just fell to crap in a matter of weeks.

DESPITE ALL THIS, I'm not saying Pathfinder: Online should be Star Wars Galaxies but in the Pathfinder universe. For all those amazing qualities and aspects, SW:G had a lot of problems and LucasArts really ruined the whole thing with their updates and patches.

BUT, I do think it is a worthwhile example of what you're going for to keep in mind, I think, and maybe something to draw some inspiration from.