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James Jacobs wrote:
Rekentine wrote:
Hey, James! Here with an odd question that can be interpreted in multiple ways, depending....
If your question requires that much text, I'm probably not going to be able to help you. Either rephrase as one sentence, or, if as it looks like, you're asking about a 1st edition rules question, please ask on the 1st edition boards for advice from other gamers. I try to avoid answering rules questions here because it makes people crazy–they try to use my answers to bully GMs, push boundaries in PFS, or confront the Design team with my replies as ammunition in an attempt to force them to agree. It's caused a fair amount of drama for me in real life and work life alike, so... sorry, I don't answer rules questions.

I completely understand on this. The group I roll with are good people - rules debates get hot, but whether anyone's right or wrong, we just accept it and shrug.

The question was simply if the Ranged Spellstrike (Eldritch Magus) worked in conjunction with Arcane Gun (Spellslinger Wizard), when we had opposing ideas of firing spells through the gun? RAW and RAI, but you don't have to answer.

It was just a banter between two staff members of a West-March style campaign. End of the day, still friends. Just a bunch of nerds rules-lawyering one another. Heck, I have a friend who has a dream to be in a game and actually call a Paizo Dev guy out on a rule. But, no, bullying's not allowed in this game.

Sorry again for pressing ya! So, here's a different question.

How hard was it to start from core Pathfinder (wording, new mechanics as time went on, etc.) and see it all written to the end of it now (in the last, official book with Arazni and so on - no spoilers)? I mean, does it feel like closing a chapter in your life and moving onto some new frontier? Or kind of like watching a creation grow up and mature?


Hey, James! Here with an odd question that can be interpreted in multiple ways, depending.

Reason I'm asking is it's very heated and even a third party sees the merits in both arguments, so, this is just asking for help. I'm asterisking the parts that are points of contention between us.

I know Eldritch Archer is banned from PFS, but this is another argument in a Living World where it isn't.

The player is attempting to Multiclass Spellslinger Wizard with Eldritch Archer Magus and is trying to say that these two abilities grant Ranged Spell Strike the ability to do a x3 crit as per arcane gun. When I'm telling him that since the ammunition is the medium of delivery through the Magus touch spells - they would be subject to the 2x damage that Maguses are limited to.

His stance is that since the first asterisked part of Arcane gun below gives a criteria of three things (One arcane gun, spell fired through gun, an attack roll), and since he meets that criteria through Ranged Spellstrike, why shouldn't he be allowed the x3 crit on spells?

The two abilities are this:

Ranged Spellstrike (Su)

At 2nd level, whenever an eldritch archer casts a spell that calls for a ranged attack, **she can deliver the spell through a ranged weapon she wields as part of a ranged attack. Instead of the free ranged attack normally allowed to deliver the spell,** an eldritch archer can make one free ranged attack with a ranged weapon (at her highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. The attack does not increase the spell’s range.

If the spell can normally affect multiple targets, only a single missile, ray, or effect accompanies each attack; if the spell allows multiple attacks and the eldritch archer can make additional ranged attacks as part of a full-round action with spell combat, one additional ray, missile, or effect from the spell accompanies each subsequent ranged attack the eldritch archer makes in the same round until all attacks allowed by the spell are made. Unused missiles, rays, or effects remaining at the end of the eldritch archer’s turn are wasted.

This ability alters spellstrike.

_______

Arcane Gun (Su)

The spellslinger gains the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearms) feat, and one or two of his firearms can be arcane guns. Arcane guns are normal one-handed or two-handed firearms in the hands of others, as they were normal firearms before the spellslinger imbued them with magic. In a spellslinger’s hands, they both fire projectiles (bullets and pellets) and cast magic. At 1st level, the spellslinger decides whether he wants to have one or two arcane guns at a time. **If the spellslinger chooses to have only one arcane gun at a time, spells fired through the arcane gun that require an attack roll have a ×3 critical hit multiplier.**

**A spellslinger can cast any ranged touch attack, cone, line, or ray spells through his arcane gun. When he casts through the arcane gun,** the gun’s enhancement bonus (if any) is a bonus to the spell’s attack rolls or to the spell’s saving throw DCs. Yet there are dangers inherent to this method. If any of the **spells’ attack rolls result in a natural 1 (a misfire), or a natural 20 is rolled on any saving throw made against the spell by a target (an overload), the arcane gun gains the broken condition.** If the arcane gun already has the broken condition, the gun explodes. When a gun explodes, it lets loose a blast of force, or if the spell has the acid, cold, electricity, or sonic descriptor, it deals that type of energy damage instead. In the case of spells with multiple descriptors, roll randomly among the descriptors to determine the type of damage dealt by the blast. The blast is centered on a single intersection within the spellslinger’s space (spellslinger’s choice) and deals 1d6 points of the appropriate energy damage or force damage per level of the spell cast. Any creature within the blast other than the spellslinger can make a Reflex saving throw to halve the damage. The Reflex save DC is calculated using the spell level of the spell being sacrificed.

A spellslinger can attune his arcane guns at the start of each day. That attunement lasts until the spellslinger attunes to a new gun, even if a formally attuned gun is destroyed.

This ability replaces arcane bond.


I seem to have quoted the wrong post... and my choice of terms may have been terrible. This is pertaining to first edition.

I have looked on the rules forums, but if what they're saying is correct, you're getting three vital strikes at full BAB, with the exception of Greater Spring Attack adding attack penalties as per that feat.

Greater Spring Attack states that you can target three enemies and attack them during your movement.

Chrysanthemum's Blooming states you may use the benefits of Vital Strike while using Spring Attack.

Greater Spring Attack modifies Spring Attack directly.

Since Vital Strike says you make a strike at your full BAB, would the three strikes granted by Greater Spring Attack be all Vital Strikes or do they just get the one Vital Strike and only that?

For instance, with an impacting Katana, they'd go from doing 3d8 to 6d8+modifiers on three attacks if this were the case, which is 18d6 on three enemies (split evenly), which seems a bit... ah... crazy?

So, would this mean they get three Vital Strike attacks at the decreasing to hit with rolling their damage dice multiple times or is someone a Cheating Andy and shouldn't be dealing that much damage a round? Or rather, if someone brought this explanation to your own table, would you tell them no?

It worries me, due to the conflicts in people's opinions on the rules of this ability - what would your own ruling be at your table as that'd be as close to a source as I'd be able to use and have, to some degree, justification that it should or shouldn't fly a certain way (asking as a GM who is having to deal with this type of thing, but doesn't want to ban the archetype, because it's actually really flavorful)?


James Jacobs wrote:
Interesting Character wrote:

I've encountered a corner case and I always look first to the narrative side of things before coming up with rules or rulings, so I'm curious what you would say about it narratively in-world sense.

The case is a caster with a held charge spell, like Shocking Grasp or Chill Touch, when the caster gets grappled. It's well noted that even an accidental touch will release a charge but what happens when the contact is continuous rather than momentary? Does the spell automatically discharge every charge over time, just one, or something else?

In first edition, a held charge in this case persists until you attack. Being grappled is not an attack, so being grappled wouldn't discharge the spell; you still have to attack to discharge it.

In second edition, as far as I know, there's no "hold the charge" for a touch spell. The cleaned up action economy doesn't need this kludge for holding charges. When you cast a touch spell, it goes off and you touch the target all at once as part of the casting of the spell. If you cast a touch spell and there's no one in range to touch, the spell is "wasted" in the same way that casting a fireball into the air won't hurt anyone.

So, that would mean no iteratives in the greater spring attack or would only the first attack be a Vital Strike with no extras allowed (as per Greater Spring Attack)? That discussion immediately popped up right after.


Under the Warrior Poet, it has this ability:

Chrysanthemum’s Blooming: The warrior poet gains Vital Strike as a bonus feat and can apply its benefit when using Spring Attack. If the warrior poet is at least 16th level and has Improved Vital Strike, she can apply that feat’s benefit instead. The warrior poet must be at least 11th level to select this flourish.

My friend and I were having a debate that whether the Vital Strike, later on, applied to all attacks with Improved and/or Greater Spring Attack or just the first one. As Greater and Improved have the first five words - the feat below is Greater.

Benefit: When you use Spring Attack, you can select three targets to attack during your movement instead of one. The second attack made this way is made at your full base attack bonus – 5, and the third attack made this way is made at your full base attack bonus – 10. All restrictions of Spring Attack apply to each target, and your movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity from any of your targets. You can’t target the same creature more than once.

Would you have a potential answer to this?