Recoveringcynic's page

Feral Combat Training will add a natural weapon to the flurry options of a Zen Archer.

No it will not because a Zen Archer's bow is not a natural weapon.

Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike.

Special: If you are a monk, you can use the selected natural weapon with your flurry of blows class feature.

Yes

** spoiler omitted **

It might possibly be worth noting that the spell remove fear is both lower level and does the current job better.

Thank you. True, but you have to assume that the cleric will make his save in order to cast remove fear and does not run off himself.

In an attempt a counteract a dragon's awesome frightful presence I came across the 2nd level cleric spell calm emotions:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/calm-emotions

that can "suppress any fear effects and removes the confused condition from all targets. While the spell lasts, a suppressed spell, condition, or effect has no effect."

Now this will only last until those effected by the spell are attacked by said dragon but it may be enough time to swallow potions of heroism and have the cleric (who hopefully makes his save this time) cast remove fear before everybody runs for their lives.

This brings me to my question. The calm emotions spell gives another Will save. Can a player willingly fail a Will save on purpose thus falling under the calm emotions spell as to not be affected by the dragon's frightful presence? Until that player is attacked of course.

Can you can have your Summon Monster SLA and your Eidolon out at the same time? To do this you would use the Summoner's SLA then take 1 minute to call your Eidolon.

(The rules say you can't use your Summon SLA while your Eidolon is active, but there's nothing saying that you can't summon your Eidolon while a Summon is active.)

"Drawing upon this ability uses up the same power as the summoner uses to call his eidolon. As a result, he can only use this ability when his eidolon is not summoned."

At least that is the consensus of the unofficial Summoner's Handbook which I agree with on most things.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184592

Thoughts? Comments?

REVISED

Upon asking for further clarification James Jacobs replied with:

"Eidolons change the fundamental way the game works in lots of ways, for good or for ill, and so to a certain extent, these types of things are and should be a GM call.

A strict reading of the rules as written, though, would indeed indicate that an eidolon slain by a death effect can come back normal the next day at half hit points."

Which is all that I wanted to be clarified really. Now armed with this new statement I can try to appeal to my DM's sense of sticking to the rules as written and hope to possibly overturn his ruling. If not at least I have the satisfaction of knowing that the guy that he turned to make the ruling in the first place agrees with me that a strict reading of the rules indicate that an eidolon slain by a death effect can come back normal the next day at half hit points.

Thanks guys

Recoveringcynic wrote:

James Jacobs responded to this question on his ask anything forum here:

http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz2u4o&page=289?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Que %20stions-Here#14436

James Jacobs is not a rule developer, and he's said several times that his answers are only what he would do in his games, and not to be taken as official rulings. (His answers about Golarion are another story.) He's also said that he isn't fond of the summoner. While it's always interesting to get his opinion (and easier than with anyone else), you shouldn't screw over a character because of it.

Personally, the very worst case scenario I would allow is o deprive the summoner of his eidolon until the next time he can assign its evolution points, because every time he does, he calls a different aspect of the same creature.

He is the Creative Director that is about all I know. I don't know how much that extends to officially enforcing rules or about his personal feelings on the summoner. My DM armed with the comment above made this ruling about my summoner's Eidolon our last gaming session. He sought advice on this forum as well and then on the ask James Jacobs forum. I was under the impression that it was official, at least as official as something could get in a game where you can get an answer from the Creative Director of the game and the only real rule is to have fun.

I don't want to step on anyone's toes and after the initial shock of anger and disbelief I have come to accept the ruling. The DM has laid down the hammer and said this is what happened. I suppose I am just looking for clarity really. An explanation on why the Eidolon does not revive the next day. I consider the DM to be very fair and impartial and was very surprised by this ruling.

dartagnan4 wrote:

True they do; Jak heck even I do when playing however the Ediolon is much more powerful and versitile than low level monsters. Plus, the Summoner and Ediolon are suppose to have a sacared/special bond/affinity which I believe treating the Eidolon as a disposable minesweeper violates.

So the summoner or one of his friends should go in there and die instead? They don't get to come back the next day. Maybe its just me, but even my druid pcs will sacrifice an animal companion to save a human (or metahuman) life.

Besides a smart summoner is using their summon monster ability for this, not their eidolon.

Great idea in hindsight however in this particular case time was of the essence and you have to make quick decisions on the battlefield. The two rounds it would have taken to summon two creatures equal to the Eidolon's HP everyone could have died. As it stands two characters did die not counting the Eidolon and a third was mortally wounded but that is to be expected when you go to the 8th level of Hell and try to go toe to toe with an Ice Devil.

Regardless I sent the Eidolon to its death with the assumption that it would come back again the next day. It turns out I was wrong.

James Jacobs responded to this question on his ask anything forum here:

http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz2u4o&page=289?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Que %20stions-Here#14436

He wrote "The Eidolon is dead, but a resurrection or more powerful effect should be able to fix it anyway."

So in our game the Eidolon is dead without being able to come back to life at 1/2 HP the next day.

I am trying to get some expanded clarification on why exactly. My guess by his answer is that since the Symbol of Death spell is such a powerful spell that only an equally or more powerful spell will break it.

Needless to say I was upset. Now the summoner is gimped and our party cannot afford a resurrection spell and the holy quest that we have undertook to get one may very well end up in more death.

My interpretation of the rules were when the Eidolon dies it comes back next day at 1/2 HP. It now appears that is not the case when it dies by a death effect it trumps the summoner's ability to summon it the next day at 1/2 HP.

RecoveringCynic, you should ask the Rules Questions forum.

Thread was started in the rules forum here:

http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz52ne?Eidolon-and-Death-Effects

I am coming here for clarification in response to post made by James Jacobs this forum.

http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz2u4o&page=289?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Que stions-Here#14436

dartagnan4 wrote:

Mr. Jacobs,

If an Eidolon was killed by a death effect such as a symbol of death spell, What would be the proper ruling insofar as to whether or not the Eidolon could be summoned again the next day?

My thought is RAW - Eidolon is croaked, RAI - It should be allowed to comeback or at the very least summons the body back so the party could cast a Ressurrection spell.

The Eidolon is dead, but a resurrection or more powerful effect should be able to fix it anyway.

So an eidolon croaked by a death effect would not be able to be summoned at 1/2 hit points the next day? Isn't dying by a death affect considered "slain" as stated under the description of the eidolon? What is the difference between dead and "slain"? I am looking for clarification I am not trying to be obtuse.

A death effect pg 562 clarifies that it kills its victims instantly by reducing hit points down to equal or less than negative CON. An eidolon is not dispelled until it is taken to equal or greater CON damage. Is a death effect considered a permanent effect such as ability damage/drain from negative energy or petrification? There has been much debate on what happens to an eidolon that have these conditions as well as tactics of just killing your eidolon when it is below half hit points or has a permanent condition so that it comes back the next day at half hit points. Some say the conditions remain some say that they disappear when the eidolon dies.

"When summoned in this way, the eidolon hit points are unchanged from the last time it was summoned. The only exception to this is if the eidolon was slain, in which case it returns with half its normal hit points. The eidolon does not heal naturally. The eidolon remains until dismissed by the summoner (a standard action). If the eidolon is sent back to its home plane due to death, it cannot be summoned again until the following day."