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tl;dr:
1) Can you double dip on the benefit from Courageous when determining Superstition's saving throws and converting to Ghost Rager's Touch AC bonus?
2) Does Ghost Rager's Touch AC bonus apply to incorporeal touch attacks, or all touch attacks?

The Barbarian's Ghost Rager rage power provides a couple benefits:

Ghost Rager:
While raging, the barbarian deals normal damage to incorporeal creatures even when using nonmagical weapons. She also gains a morale bonus to touch AC equal to her saving throw bonus from her superstition rage power.

And the rather Barbarian-friendly magic weapon property Courageous:

Courageous:
This special ability can only be added to a melee weapon.

A courageous weapon fortifies the wielder's courage and morale in battle. The wielder gains a morale bonus on saving throws against fear equal to the weapon's enhancement bonus. In addition, any morale bonus the wielder gains from any other source is increased by half the weapon's enhancement bonus (minimum 1).

The Superstition rage power is also a morale bonus and therefore, benefits from Courageous. Does the enhancement bonus of the weapon essentially get "double-dipped" when determining the Barbarian's Touch AC? Here's an example for those who want one:

Example:
Whilst naked Bob (the level 20 Barbarian) has a 12 Dex, granting him an AC of 11. He picks up his +4 Courageous Longsword and rages, because he can't find his pants. Will his Touch AC become 22 or 20? Essentially, the two formulas are as follows:

Touch AC (20) = 10+Dex(1)+Modified Superstition(7+2)
Touch AC (22) = 10+Dex(1)+(Modified Superstition(7+2)+Courageous(2))

The morale saving throw bonus from Superstition is modified by Courageous. That saving throw bonus is then added to the Touch AC as a morale bonus, triggering the boost from Courageous.

If I wanted to craft my Barbarian to win, I would try to argue that RAW allows this since they are two separate morale bonuses. However, the whole thing just seems shady and I wouldn't bat an eyelash if the DM shot it down. Per RAW, what is allowed?

Bonus Question: Does the Touch AC bonus apply to just touch attacks from incorporeal creatures or ALL touch attacks? Ghost Rager doesn't specify, but it feels that it is meant to deal with incorporeals. On the other hand, Ghost Rager does list Superstition as a prerequisite and that DOES deal with all magic.


To start off, I love Barbarians. And while Superstition seems cool (I DO want to use it), I really love the rage powers it leads into. But the penalty just seems extremely severe to me. So I'll ask a couple questions and try to throw out counterpoints for you folks to smash to bits. Hopefully this will ease the doubts of myself and other like minded people. I'm not looking for a way to negate the penalties. It's more of "How do I work with the penalties" with a side of pros vs cons. Remember, the more ideas that get thrown around, the better!

Spoiler:
Quote:

Superstition (Ex)

Benefit: The barbarian gains a +2 morale bonus on saving throws made to resist spells, supernatural abilities, and spell-like abilities. This bonus increases by +1 for every 4 levels the barbarian has attained. While raging, the barbarian cannot be a willing target of any spell and must make saving throws to resist all spells, even those cast by allies.

1) You can't be a willing target of a spell. This means your healer is going to have to land touch attacks to heal you. And because you'll most likely make your save, it'll only be at half strength. Buffs are not likely to succeed at low levels, even harder at higher levels. How do you deal with these problems?

2) As far as I know, Superstition doesn't specifically state that you hate magic and those who use it. But that's the common attitude of the board it seems (and I agree with that view). Sure, occasional party conflict is fun. But constantly hating party members is just no good in my book. How do you deal with the role play challenges?


I'm pretty new to Pathfinder and I'm playing a 4th level regular barbarian in Jade Regent. As a barbarian, I'm assuming I don't need to do much to keep my "single target damage" competitive. But I'm actually looking to be able deal with groups of enemies. We've also got a ninja, zen archer, and a cleric. I figured the ninja and archer will be plinking off enemies one at a time.

So, any advice on how to build a barbarian to handle groups? So far, the 3 things I've got my eye on are Great Cleave, Dreadful Carnage, and Terrifying Howl. Is that all I'll need?