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Liberty's Edge

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I have a few Dispel magic stories as a Thief and using my skills effectively to scroll cast dispel magic, mostly against traps, but the most surprising success I had with Dispel magic was as a lower level wizard NPC against the more powerful players. I countered a raise dead spell being cast on the parties only cleric.

There was no way it would work. Not only was the CL high enough that it made it almost impossible the wizard was only there as flavor really and had horrible stats. I had to roll a 20 on a die that I had purchased a few years back that had extra 1's on its faces, basically a cheat die to make sure I always lost. I had a 5% chance of rolling a success. I rolled a 20. I had to make up some rule that you can't counter raise dead spells

Liberty's Edge

just thinking on ways to adjudicate rumormonger in a scenario, even a shortened scenario. If you succeed it takes a week, correct? if you succeed well it takes 3-6 days correct?

Thinking OTB/OTG a rumor spreads rather concentrically from the starting point. The closer you are to the origination the more likely you are to hear it directly from the origin. It almost spreads the way fallout spreads from an atomic bomb. Quickly affected close to the origin, eventually with shifts of air spread to the outskirts. Occasionally quick burst of wind (movement of the person) spreads the fallout in unusual patterns.

Say you have a washer woman who hears from the rumormonger that her boss eats unicorns. First she tells the neighbor's servants, then she goes to market days and tells all of the merchants, this gets reinforced by other maids and cooks. The merchants believe the rumor then they tell the non merchant professionals and tradesmen, construction, mages, hostlers. Then it spreads again this time escaping to the local farms, children at school mention it to each other and their friends say it to their parents. The local constabulary hear it, because they are always the last to know, and the Sheriff discusses it with the mayor or the local noble to determine how to investigate, finally shepherds and teamsters who may have been out of town hear the rumor.

The point I am thinking is that the town does not suddenly believe the rumor but rather the strength of the rumor or the number of people who hear it increases by 1/7 each day. It only makes sense that if you try to rely on a rumor on the 7th day it has a near 100% chance of success (after DC success) whereas on the 1st day it has a 14% chance of success. You can quickly reduce a sense motive check by that % rounded down. say they score a 21, you reduce that roll by 3 to get the result of the combined check and rumor. While PFS is generally focused on RAW it still allows for creative solutions and table variation, which this ad hoc ruling would follow, because it just adds a dimension to the standard rule that was unforeseen to the writers of the guide.

Liberty's Edge

Jon Cary wrote:


As far as the materials are concerned, .... We didn't hammer out a loan checkout system for them, but we may do that for next year as the checkouts for the pregens

Jon Cary your response addressed everything. Thanks.

Your response is why I continue to return to pathfinder despite my changing interests. You Rock

Your idea about borrowed map packs sounds good

Jon Cary wrote:
I presume that you're referring to the Special on Friday night.

And sunday morning, the announcement about the boon table

Jon Cary wrote:
The timing of those announcements was based on when the ENnies let out (~10 PM). That doesn't help with the end of slot timing but it did keep the doomsday timer from progressing while he was talking.

Still pulled us out of the scenario and I think we all at my table felt a bit confused as we tried to get back in, forgetting what we were doing.

Jon Cary wrote:
This is a development issue and outside the scope of Gen Con organization.

The solution I provided could be a gen con solution as it would address the issues of larger cons and having to seat lots of people with an extreme variety of characters.

Here's an idea the pregen bag of holding that players reach in and pull out a 750 gp value item to help their table that only lasts for that scenario (and only works when playing the specials) or a temporary button that they can activate that gives them a bonus to whatever they are lacking. Whether that is permissible in the greater scheme of the society and organized play is beyond my ken.

Jon Cary wrote:
The pregens are, as I understand it, intentionally designed to not be optimized. If you want an optimized character, the intention is that you play your character rather than a pregen.

Those pregens aren't just not-optimized they are sub par. My personal character is not-optimized. My problem is when I am trying to get marshaled for a table, since I don't come with a group they basically shoved me where they had roo: once on friday night once on sunday morning both times the table level was above my character level so I either played a pregen or didn't play I feel like I am getting dinged twice: once for not getting to play my only character and once for making a choice between not getting sat at all or playing a sub par pre gen, it's pretty demoralizing for a semi new player Like you said that's a paizo issue though.

Jon Cary wrote:
I'm not sure which Special you're referring to. The muster on Thursday night was certainly a mess

It was both specials Thursday and Friday. As I mentioned, I was forced to play a pre gen in order to get sat on Friday. I searched for people needing a player of my level for a good 20 minutes, basically i just grabbed the last group with a spot available and played a pre gen.

Jon Cary wrote:
Using cards instead of pregen sheets with all the powers spelled out.....I'm not sure that we can re-format the pregens into cards of some sort as the format is provided by Paizo.

Sorry I meant I really liked the current pregen layout (even if I don't like the pregens) that heavy card stock and lamination was perfect for me. keep doing that

Liberty's Edge

My thoughts, as a player who exclusively plays PFS at gen con, and probably should be considered a newb (included is my suggestions for improvement: Sorry long post

The bad:
1. We had a GM thrown onto our table because they were missing GMs on Sunday, I realize this happens, the problem is that the combat and roleplay required a lot more time than given GM our experience was soured

Solution -- (only for such occurrences like last minute GM changes) have maps ready for them so the GM can focus on reading ahead. Have one or two of these maps available just for such occasions. Make sure the scenarios printed have all the needed info (ours was missing several pages). Have an adventure specialist to help expedite questions for the GM. These GMs especially need runners. running cold means they need a few extra minutes to a whole half hour of run time that they won’t be getting if they have to grab things from HQ or character cards

2. Those announcements in the middle of a timed event detracted from the excitement and the flow of the game, it pulled me out of the narrative and as I was told repeatedly it was a timed event, probably ruined the timing. I’m really appreciative of the miniature, however it was stolen by someone at my table, so I didn’t even get to enjoy the spoils of that announcement. (Good job on your wins! sucks about my miniature.)

Solution – make those announcements at the beginning or end of the event, or alternatively put them up on the screen and let us read them at our leisure, or make sure the special is planned specifically to create a timing break.

3. pregen characters are an abysmal stand in for regular characters of the same level, I was forced to use pregen twice this week, this caused problems at my table, it may not be much but that missing ability point can be pretty unhealthy at higher level

solution -- redo the pregens, have an equipment grab-bag for when the pregens are used in specials. Alternatively make sure the pregens have the same ability scores as their PC counterparts. Maybe even have society submitted build of the character and divide it into categories, like for instance have two versions of merisiel, one of them slightly better at skills, maybe even give her a sense motive

4. maybe not the place to address but some of the workers were not the nicest, not the GM’s but the orange shirts. One or two in particular especially who worked the boon table, I heard more than one complaint about. The marshalls outside the front door were the nicest they could be all things considered (really everything I heard was almost exclusively about the boon table and maybe one or two other issues)

Solution – sorry I got nothing for people’s attitudes

5. Boons -- a lot of boons read “On your next character…..” For many people this boon is meaningless. I have one character that I’ve been playing since 2013 and he’s at 3rd level. What use will I have for a new character? Same applies to new players. What good is a boon?

Solution --- Don’t get me wrong, I understand they are a push to keep you playing Pathfinder, but it seems you can do that still if you increase the cost of boons if people specifically want to purchase them (like 4 wood tokens) or a dice (6 wood tokens) or a miniature (10 wood tokens) or maybe offer a chance for a reroll at the table with an extra token, or offer a not so awesome circumstantial boon just straight up handing the token back for a reroll or something. I don’t know I have several boons just collecting dust at this point because I’ve never started a new character.

GMs
GMs are still under the impression they can’t make ad hoc rules to adjudicate an unusual circumstance from a player. Since I am a king of the unusual this usually means my ideas aren’t adjudicated at all or are done so poorly

Also when I am rolling well a gm shouldn’t tell me to put away my dice, there are few times when I actually roll better than a 4 and the gm asked me to retire my dice because I rolled too many crits. Seriously, that’s probably the only crits I will see for the next 4 years

Solution remind them all that sometimes you have to just go with the enjoyment of the game, maybe every turn remind them to adjudicate to the spirit not the letter

Disabled entrance -
You don’t have one, this needs to be fixed and they should be seated before anyone (provided they have real tickets), no questions asked. This should also apply to those with babies

Better [almost]
Marshalling gets better and better each year, maybe have a place where the single table representative (the table lieutenant) will enter the door for his or her team just a few minutes prior to all the doors opening. Get their assignments and then return to the outside, the mad dash and crowding of marhsalls is still a bit much

Seating all the real tickets and getting them together with groups. I was fifteen minutes early and scrambling for a seat in the special

It has gotten better but it is still a problem.

THE GOOD that could be made better?

I had two great GM’s (I know Gm thread) and several players I really liked. I wouldn’t mind meeting up with them next year. I wish there was a way to do this via forums other than stating my name. Perhaps a way to do this is to offer the players there own table tracking sheet or to have one available online that people aren’t required to fill but it would be nice.

The good
HQ answered questions fast
The overheads on the specials were terrific
physical rewards for group success
The marshalls were incredibly patient you all rocked
The GREAT, no seriously the great
The two specials I played kicked butt
Actually the marshal’s belong here
Using cards instead of pregen sheets with all the powers spelled out
Thursday nights special GM, that guy let our group have a lot of fun while we ran roughshod over those enemies. We just worked together so well and while he thought we weren’t RPing enough with the enemies we were RPing between each other way more than I have at any other pathfinder event. He was truly excellent and I just wish I had his name

Liberty's Edge

Gm's can make games harder without changing stat blocks. You don't need to increase anything if you want to make it tougher for certain players (aka powercreep and power gamers) or for that matter easier for newbies and one off players.

For instance, a goblin has a standard AC collection of 16/13/14, by making sure the goblin sticks with thrown weapons and utilizes cover, I can make that AC increase 2-8 points. Or I can make that idiot goblin walk within a reach weapons field if the player is a little confused about things.

A GM shouldn't finagle stats because she doesn't like the cut of your jib.

I tend to disregard party wipes, or find ways that they don't happen like a Deus ex machina, usually because I as a GM may have misread the party's understanding of the game. But I would only do that with player permission. I've had total wipes where the wipe makes a lot of sense (1st level players attacked the town guard, which by the way weren't statted because who attacks the town guard?) and I will walk away shaking my head and others where the scenario really requires characters to be at the top of their game and maybe the cleric decides he is more interested in his phone than playing. When that happens you as a GM have to be able to modulate the enemy responses, and you can do that without stat changes. But if the party is still wiped and you know it's because someone decided to farm on facebook instead of paying attention to the game, sometimes I'll personally seek permission to do the retcon. Retcons though should be last resorts. there are other in scenario ways to prevent party wipes.

Cold readings of modules do cause problems for GM's and players. It happens. Sometimes the way the module is written is impossible to fully understand on a cold reading. I had a game one time where the group attacked ogres in a warehouse, the cold reading I made it was a simple up and down battle, it wasn't until I was finishing the scenario did I realize that the entire room was filled with volatile liquids. I ran it again for a different group with all the liquids (and flammable barrels) and suddenly the way they fought in that scenario totally changed. Especially at a convention, cold readings can be very difficult for a GM. And sometimes it can make the scenario nealry impossible. When that happens, ask for a time and talk to the GM, they may not be aware of the issue.

As a player if you are worried the GM is reading the module wrong, you have the right to ask them as an aside (obviously not in front of players because that can put them to the defensive). tell them you feel it's too tough or too easy and ask them if maybe there is somethign missing in the module.

Like the XPHP mistake as a GM I've made the mistake to use the wrong dice for a sword (d10 for a d6), given concealment when it should have been cover, or cover when it should be concealment, misunderstood where an NPC began an encounter (on top of a tower is totally different than next to the tower), and yes even added extra NPC's because I've read a number wrong or has happened a few times there were typos. GM's are human after all. But if you disagree with a GM then please go to the Pathfinder Hiearchy to correct the situation

Liberty's Edge

It's not that simple. It's not the raw on the reach weapon but the raw on sneak attacks and round the corner attacks that make me wonder if the question is purposefully ignorant of larger sized creatures. The explanations pretty much assumes medium sized creature unless specifying a different size, so to me it seems obvious this is not RAW, but the part of RAW left to the GM to adjudicate.

Ignoring RAW for a sec I will quote SR and JJ

"on this one where we could, we tried to simplify the 3.5 rules where we could. Line of sight is, as folks have mentioned, a relatively simple term that doesn't really need over explanation and diagrams to make sense."

"So if the game doesn't have a definition for something, and the non-game language you're using *does* have a definition for that something, then use the non-game definition."

Let's define non game language and go back to what is said about a reach attack initially

Attack, Melee Attack, -With a typical reach weapon you can strike opponents 10 feet away but you can't strike adjacent foes ----and see the next part is where their words are important as they define the word adjacent ------- ( those within 5 ft).

Following what they wrote I am going to use my language skills, actually my dictionary and ask what does "within" mean since 5ft is pretty concrete? Merriam says " inside (a certain area or space) used as a function word to indicate enclosure or containment ---meaning all of the creature must be inside of that five foot area to be considered adjacent. That means the game specifically defines creatures as being adjacent only if they are entirely within five feet of you. A medium or small or tiny creature is, a large a huge and so on creature is not.

See that's a problem......

Other definitions of within (as this is a preposition and not an adverb)
6.in or into the interior of or the parts or space enclosed by: within city walls.
7.inside of; in.
8.in the compass or limits of; not beyond: within view; to live within one's income.
9.at or to some point not beyond, as in length or distance; not farther than: within a radius of a mile.
10.at or to some amount or degree not exceeding: within two degrees of freezing.

The rules are pretty explicit that adjacent means within five feet, rules creators say use dictionary where we have not defined words, dictionary says within means not beyond a certain point. Result.....

adjacent foes are ones that are no further than 5 feet away.

If we correct this and argue that within could also mean that a thing can be within five feet and outside five feet. For instance "the rope is within my grasp" does not mean that all the rope is 1 foot away just the nearest part of the rope is within that boundary of grasp. But the top of the rope is outside of my grasp. That means a thing can be both adjacent to my grasp and not adjacent.

Since it seems the part of RAW that is not defined is the language itself and the creators say use your language's definitions for words, and those definitions would suggest a thing can be both adjacent and not adjacent. RAW says you can only attack things non adjacent, a thing can be both adjacent and non adjacent, so it can also be a thing that can be attacked and not attacked I would say that RAW says anything that has a square that is not adjacent to you can be attacked with a reach weapon. Until I see otherwise I will use their words as my guidance and their words pretty much explicitly say exactly that

(not to mention in the "attack around a corner" example on 194 they define reach in a way that suggest a foes non adjacent facing body can be used to figure attacks as if a ranged weapon)

That also corrects the ridiculously vague notion that a rogue cannot "reach" the vitals in an adjacent creature that is huge or larger. Because now the GM can say the portion that is vital is not adjacent.

Liberty's Edge

Ravingdork wrote:
Six items? Five of which must be very plain and of simple make and one of which that can be of some value?

Not a fan of the original and the new one sounds even worse. Strictly as a RP versus hack and slash, this feat gives me less reason to take it than nearly every other feat. I agree keeping a monk to some honor code is an interesting ST tactic, but wasting a feat especially one so easily and completely destroyed? Instead of encouraging RP this discourages it. Once this feat gets in the way of survival, no one will keep to the mundane rules. Any RP knows that by design, taking feats items skills that make it a lot more likely that you will die just doesn't make sense, since you want to live to be able to RP

The OP's answer may not follow the strictest rule interp but it provides the flexibility those of us who typically are more RP will enjoy.

The weapon part is correct since simple is a coded word taken from the weapons section. A club is a simple weapon even if it is magical. Plain is a somewhat coded word but really it's definition means unadorned or unassuming. being better designed does not make it prettier or adorned. A prison typically is one of the best most securely designed buildings but it has a simple structure and they are typically plain. Yet they are also one of the most expensive buildings to make. I'd argue certain items have an intrinsic adornment value namely all accessories which is synonymous with adornment. necklaces rings etc are not allowed, neither would I say are bracers. pretty much anything that requires casting, special sewing (leather armor) or requires expensive materials to make into the magical form should be avoided

It should be pointed out here that a week of survival should be averaged over a year since costs will rise and fall. Also modest accommodation did not suggest strictly rental. What if you bought a modest cottage? Costs should be averaged over the year again.

I think for story purposes you should just think about the vow of poverty in fiction, myth and historic figures from the RW. Medieval monks with that vow would typically still own a horse or horse and cart, carry a relic and when necessary wield weapons. The Chinese poverty Warriors would carry relic weapons, wear their pajamas around that were passed down through family's (more relics) and use only items discarded by others. The Aesthetics would carry books and paper and ink. The Greek poverty owners would use anything communally but did not assign ownership. This could work if the party treated the monk like a pack mule.

So i'd do it this way
weapons up to masterwork as long as they were simple (but no magical unless as the exception)
garb simple and plain even magical as long as they were not overly worked (functionally this eliminates all armor but allows robes).
sandles (no shoes or boots) magical accepted
utensils etc magical as long as they retain the basic function, like a bowl of water control is not acceptable but a bowl with a never ending supply of food would be fine.
The point is that magic items should only be made GP value greater because of the spells placed on them not because of initial design as long as those spells are allowable.

Liberty's Edge

Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:
Two magic items that I have a real problem with, for example, are in the DMG. Candle of invocation[/i[ allows a party to summon a Solar and its only about 8,000 gp. Easily within the price range of a party of around 6th level that splits the cost. Now if they ever get concerned that they might be in real danger they bring in their Solar and they win.

The candles are consumed with each summoning making them single use for the solar summoning purpose, and they also have to be clerics to perform that task. At a cost of 8000 each candle, an average of 4 encounters per adventure, 4 candles means they are spending 32,000 gold to gain an average of 8000 gold total per adventure. That's not a realistic scenario. Most adventurers would balk at the cost unless the need is that great. And the cost of the item is 4 times the cost of hiring a sorceror to cast the same spell.

Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:
[i]Dust of Sneezing and Chocking is even worse. Its an automatic kill on anything that happens to breath. Want to slay the colossal dragon? Well this will make that a piece of cake.

I assume that the dust was only given a cursory glance otherwise you'd note several issues. One, it's dust, which requires the caster to be central to the throwing, or at least proximal, which means it has as much chance to do it to you as your opponent. It's a one shot item, so even if you bought 20 boxes of it, it becomes very expensive. . It takes about 3d6 Constitution if a Fortitude DC of 15 is failed twice. That is a nothing DC for most powerful creatures. A dragon, even a wyrmling has a minimum of a + 7 Fort save, a Juvenile has a save of +14. And the constitution loss would be a lot less painful than you losing that much constitution if you were caught in the area of effect. Oh and did I mention that your character think it's a beneficial dust to help you see opponents, making it very likely that you would use it on yourself if you never were able to identify it. And like all cursed items they are GM's decision to place in the game.

The splat books (as published) are much worse in providing items as well as feats that are obviously not balanced. That is not an opinion. They corrected many occurrences of this. But whole sections still made certain spells and items so much more overpowering than their costs versus the intentions of the core books. Spells that did status effects and damage at much greater amounts were found as lower spell levels. The last books in the series were probably the worst about this like the MIC.

Liberty's Edge

I'd choose classes and races not found in other movies over classes found in other movies. But I would also use bridge Races/classes. I wouldn't use halflings because LoTR similarities.

Humans (by necessity not desire)
A Dragon Born
Two Dwarves

The Dwarves would both be Paladins or Fighters, one is the leader the other his squire. A dwarves connection to home is very important in most fantasy. In a movie this is a good way to explore the notion of hero as defender. A Paladin is IMO a better defender by story than a fighter

The dragon Born would be a wizard or warlock. Two very alien ideas presented together would make this creature more fearsome then his counterparts.

The humans would fill the quota of the other roles. Either a rogue or ranger for striker, and a cleric or Warlord. Niether of those roles I find interesting (as a personal decision) in the current 4.0 standards. But I still find the defender, and the controller to really represent High Fantasy