Psionic Juggernaut's page

@ ciretose

Please take what I say with all due respect. With the shortcomings of written communication and not having vocal tone to interpret a message, please take what I say as non sarcastic or rude.

I understand and hear what you are saying, you believe that a character with a high charisma should get better responses and first impressions from NPC's because they are more attractive/appealing/charming/etc than someone with a charisma of 7. It makes sense that someone who's just more appealing would automatically start off on better footing and have more of an advantage than someone who developed the social skills (diplomacy I believe is the skill most discussed).

It makes sense but there are a few problems with this hypothesis.

First of all, charisma as a stat just defines too many things. There are too many variables. A charisma of 7 may mean someone is really unattractive but kinda funny. It may also mean they are average or even above average in physical appeal but obnoxious/awkward/lack self confidence/etc.

I understand the parallel you are trying to establish(to paraphrase) a character with a high diplomacy and low charisma successfully negotiating is akin to a person with a high swim skill being able to carry more weight. I disagree. A character with a high swim skill is more proficient in the physical act of swimming. They may even be proficient enough to carry more weight WHILE SWIMMING than someone who is really strong but a poor swimmer. Strength however is not quite as abstract as charisma. It really only defines how much physical force your body can exert.

You also stated that someone with a charisma of 18 will get more attention from just about anyone than someone with a lower charisma. So you've never seen a really pretty girl go for the shy awkward guy instead of the smooth talker? If a girl walks into that tavern looking for interesting conversation/witty exchange then yes. But if she's looking for someone to go give that two timing husband of hers a beating/scare-she may look for the scary/intimidating looking guy.

Another problem is your suggestion doesn't take into account things like psychology and interpersonal relationships. If all people were programmed to have the same response to the same stimuli yes the high charisma guy should always have an advantage. Some people may view the charming or otherwise charismatic guy as suspicious. They may be intimidated by the person of obvious social dominance. Their own personal history, trauma and psychological state have more impact on how they see that character than anything.

I believe the game DOES take into account the advantage of someone with a high charisma. To illustrate the point, take two characters. A fighter w/ a charisma of 7, and a fighter with a charisma of 18. Let's assume they both have 10 ranks in diplomacy.

Based on their charisma, the former starts negotiations at a -2. The latter starts with a +4. The bonus is already built in to the skill check. for a DC 20, the former has to roll a 12 or higher. The latter only needs a 6. Having to roll a 12 isn't TOO terrible, and a character who trains their social skills to offset their inherent shortcomings can be successful..just not as consistently or with the same flair as the rogue with a charisma of 18. Of course as I said things don't always occur as they should..that's why dice are rolled in the first place.

I get that you don't ONLY mean diplomacy checks and are talking about in-character interaction as well. In that case I agree that a GM should take the character's charisma score into account-but again the npc has certain personal issues that can affect the outcome. The 7 Charisma guy doesn't always strike out with the ladies/fail at negotiations..maybe that particular NPC finds his awkwardness endearing or he uses logic and facts to support his stance. It does mean that if a player continually tries to play that character as "the most interesting man in the world"..they may find their character is actually a little delusional(which can be hilarious) based on npc responses.

Personal Rant on the subject
I personally find the over abundance of dice rolling for something as simple as character interaction a bit..sad. If you don't have the words that your character would, or if you're not comfortable really getting into character just describe the what and the how. A decent GM can work with that.