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Shadow Lodge

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Souhiro wrote:

About the Brass Knukles Thing, seriously, I don't see any mess AT ALL.

It is (or was) only a weapon that deals the same DMG that a monk would deal with unarmeds. Nothing more, nothing less.
For any purpose, whatever it is, it's considered a weapon and nothing more. The usual, most messy questions (and answers) would be:

- Can you use Ki Strike, Stunning Fist, Elemental Fist, and Quivering Palm with Brass Knukles?
- Can you use them with your nunchakus? No? then you cannot with B.K.
- Can you use all the above with Brass Knuckles with the Ki Focus property?
- Yes
- Can you use Weapon Focus (Unarmed), W. Specialization, and the Improved and Greater versions of those feats With Brass Knukles?
- No. Get the "Weapon Focus (Brass Knukles)" instead.
- Does Weapon Focus (Brass Knukles) stack with the bonus from a Masterwork Brass Knukle?
- Yes. If you were using W.F. Longsword and a Masterwork Longsword it would stack, too.
- I wear an Amulet of Mighty Fists, and wield Brass Knukles!
- The amulet of mighty fists only alters your unarmed attacks, not your Brass Knukles (that are a weapon). Feel free to rename it "Amulet of Mighty Feet, Knees and Elbows" ;)

The only tricky ones would be:

- If you're wearing Nonmagical Brass Knukles, you qualify for Ki Strike (Magic) and try to hit an uncorporeal creature, would your Magic Fist connect?
No. I know that it doesn't make a lot of sense, but if you were wearing a cestus, your Magic Fist wouldn't connect, either. Next time, try with a headbutt.

- If I wield brass knukles, and try to land a blow with my open palm, would it be an unarmed?
Yeah, why not? Take note that you aren't using the brass knukles, so you won't get any befefit from it. (Hey, by RAW, you can land an unarmed attack with your TONGUE! even with an eyelid! I wouldn't allow the last one in my campaign. But still...)

To SKR, if you still want to kill the "Does Monk Unarmed Damage" line; please, I beg you to add something to the Brass Knukles....

I have to second all of this whole-heartedly.

I would also say that this should apply to the Cestus and Rope Gauntlets. As a a student of the martial arts and weapon enthusiast, I have to say that there is no rationale, flavor or balance, behind not allowing the monk to do his regular damage with any of these weapons. If you put them on the hands of any martial artist, western or eastern, they would do significantly more damage than unarmed. To reference one of the most weapon-geek-fest shows of all time; watch the gladiator episode of deadliest warrior. The lab results are astonishing.
The gauntlets are not monk weapons and not designed for attacking but protection, so they allow you to attack without provoking and do some more damage on an untrained punch but are not designed to allow proper technique. rules and flavor covered there.
Monks are hard enough to build within a point-buy system and nerfing their options is just unnecessary.

I would add another answer

am I armed and protected from effect that damage weapons?
yes as long as you are attacking with the weapon.

---Its not a modified unarmed strike. It's a weapon that does your unarmed strike damage or better regardless of your class, feats or abilities.

I have and will use this ruling in all games that I run. And argue for it in any that I play even if I'm not playing a monk.

To the developers I want to say that I am a big fan and I still hold to my initial description of your system as "3.5 + Awesome - Stupid" but a lot of the FAQ and errata style rulings feel like knee-jerk "No. You cant do that! stop asking!" answers. I understand that you guys are really busy and are constantly inundated with questions, complaints and accusations. But these type of rulings combined with the stunning amount of errors in Ultimate Combat have caused me to adopt a wait a year or two policy on purchasing your products. As well as pretty much destroying my desire to play in PFS.

You guys rock and I will always continue to use your system in home games but I think you guys need to restructure your QC/Errata system. I think Pre-releases to a small group would help immensely with both and also build hype for the books.

I'm not there and don't know everything you guys go through but I feel a couple of little rules that I use in my work would be helpful here;

Do it once do it right; No amount of time is wasted if it means you don't have to come back and fix it for free later.

The customer is always right; They decide what they get, you decide how much it costs.

Shadow Lodge

Jason Nelson wrote:
Lobolusk wrote:
Jason Nelson wrote:
Lobolusk wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:

I'm 90% sure that Crushing Embrace = Crushing Blow.

As for the Twin Lock, no idea...

i am guessing the back breaker feat is really the neck breaker feat

Crushing Embrace was for extra damage on grapples and pins.

Twin Lock was, as someone guessed, for grappling two targets at once.

Backbreaker was... well, it was exactly what it says on the tin. :) A way to break something's back (i.e., permanent paralysis) if it all works, or at least to mess them up even if you don't get the full meal deal of spine-snappage.

We'll see if they turn up again someday... :)

so.....are they going to be out in the errata? or do the feats listed just not exist? at all if they are no longer valid feats can we get some substution feats? like strangle

Until and unless otherwise stated by the Paizo staff, they simply do not exist. As to what substitution there may be, that must wait for official errata from Jason, Sean, Stephen, or whomever else on the Paizo crew.

My unofficial suggestion is to simply replace them with bonus monk feat slots while you wait for the official answer to the question.

Gotta say, I'm really kinda pissed about this. Just got my copy, read over the Tetori, got frikkin excited and went to start working on the build for DragonCon PFS and..WTF!?!?!?

If this ever gets worked out Tetori will be my absolute favorite anything in Pathfinder of all time, if not , gotta say i might be a liiittle upset.

Can always homebrew some substitutes but I was really looking foward to usinng it for PFS.

Anyways thanks for the awesome archetype, even if it is only half finished.