Would that be an evil act? Most definitely. Would it shift my alignment? I hope not, in case it does I would seek out a priest of a good deity to atone. What does that make me? Someone who should not play a paladin or take exalted feats for the shiny benefits.
Well said Navarion. I think that sums it up. It comes down to character concept.
I occasionally play a Paladin or good aligned character. I also have some in games that I run. I've not come across a game yet that wouldn't allow for me to have a chance of saving the day due to my alignment/character choice but that's for the PCs and GMs to work out.
It's not in the OP but I wonder if that was the ONLY way to get the information or if it was a character choice. If it was a question of torture or do nothing put to good aligned characters then it was a poor game. If it was a choice made by Good aligned characters then the abuse (and deceit to a lesser extent) as described in the OP (which is pretty extreme read again) would seem to indicate a change in alignment away from good.
That being said I have run a game with an evil PC who did bring torture to the table and I posed these questions to the Players as to what they thought and what they were going to do. The Good cleric said they'd leave the room at which point I asked if someone wanted to GM as I wasn't interested in running that. It was all happy families though as we are all great and respectful mates
Evil.
If you find your name as the Subject in a sentence where torture is the verb - you are doing evil. The object is immaterial.
If you are arguing Ends justifying means then welcome to Neutrality.
I argue that Ends don't justify Means, as by doing the torture for the benefit of society you are fundamentally corrupting the society by doing the torture.
Oh and BTW ... just my POV (but you knew that) :)
Alternatively you could just ask "what would Batman do?"
From what I read the differences in party survival come (in part) from DM approach to the final event.
Spoiler:
Our Avalexi went; Death attack - teleported away - failed her summon - then from a distance went to town on the Dominate/Suggestion/Charm, and with her DCs of 22-24 we were less than likely to save, effectively removing characters from the game. Her at will's are totally amazing as well. Sure she's legal but ....
Given how our encounter went I marvel that parties actually got a chance to go toe to toe with her.
A very fun adventure though and a great time to be had.
The end boss for us was a long drawn out fight that they survived only because they had 2 healers keeping the heavy hitters on their feet and used good combat (flanking & Buffing) tactics. I think the level of experience at the table helped a lot.
In the end fight how did you get around ...
Spoiler:
the dc 23/24 Will saves on Dominate and Suggestion? I hear more than 1 party has gone splat that way.
Our fighter was Dominated to fight the party, Our Pally (me) was Suggested to go get the guards, Our Rogue was Charmed to "Save me from the bad Wizard - he keeps attacking me!". Our Wiz did pretty well putting fear into our fighter but after that we were pretty much out of options"
The DC to dispel the Dominate was too high for our Wiz. As a consequence it was a little like a save or die fight.
And the teleport!!!
Be glad to hear how some others went
All in all it was a great time and we all had fun having our butts handed to us. Good game
I agree with Mike. Given the defenses of the BBEG and the DCs involved and the skills associated we had a snowballs chance in Osirion. Really great characters with loads of potential.
Would love to have them as recurring villians/NPCs in a campaign (perfect). For an fight to the death OMG!!! It's a save or die fight. Fun though. Felt like I was playing Cthulhu.
In the red box Kobolds were "Small evil dog like men. They have scaley rust brown skin and no hair" and a "dog-like voice." I always thought of them as doggy until the AD&D MM pic.
To all my fellow DM's... TPK and DM saves is it something you allow and if so how often and under what circumstances so as to not break the "suspension of reality"? Just curious how other DM's handle theses situations.
I adhear to the 1st rule of Gaming - "Have Fun"
As a DM we have a chat before a campaign or with new players to get the lay of the land on this.
Some peeps are really into the gameing side of it and love a good dice game - "Let the dice fall where they may".
Some peeps are more into the long term life of their characters (Maybe they read too many comics), and we have a lot of professional actors in our group and that tends to be their pref.
As a DM I'm big on the ambiguous death where the body is lost etc just in case I need to bring them back as undead (which can be fun) or they want to pick up the character again at a later date.
Also before killing a PC I'll say to most players "How do you want to handle this?" and they'll usually say wether they are ready to retire the character.
Note that I don't fudge dice rolls as a rule but I do mess around with the intentions of the foes. My baddies love running away, capturing and taunting/torturing PCs and some smarter ones are not above kidnap and ransom as a way of getting more gold (that's what being a bad guy's all about aint it?). It's ALWAYS about the story and the fun.
The odd death and TPK is a part of that.
It took me a while but Yes I found it at the 60minutes nine australia site. What a bunch of inflamatory idiots! Of course it's a training "what if" excercise, but the Australian public don't need that. Then again it's the same program that ran a "D&D is evil and will turn your kids to the devil" piece in the 80s.
male half fiend half dragon half orc half elf and TWICE the man for it! bard 6 scientist 5
sorry gang .... just got back from the coal mine (pics on FB later for all of y'all to look at soon). Just running off to a casting for some presenter work. I'll post as soon as I get back from that tonight
male half fiend half dragon half orc half elf and TWICE the man for it! bard 6 scientist 5
Hey there, sorry about the infrequent posting.I've had jobs out the wahzoo!
I'll be flying up Bacchreus's way next week. I'm shooting out at a giant coal mine in central Queensland.
male half fiend half dragon half orc half elf and TWICE the man for it! bard 6 scientist 5
Aye ... it'd be a bit of a cake walk if a 2 suceeded :^)
Thanks for the assist update. That makes a bit more sence of the rules.
Have a good weekend guys
male half fiend half dragon half orc half elf and TWICE the man for it! bard 6 scientist 5
Smart Goblin Boss - he would have taken sanction damage AS WELL. Canas we should talk about using my divine sanction and your curses to pull OAs and double damage enemies as a tactic.
Ghetto DM wrote:
Aside, I got a job opportunity that mght turn permanent, so my posting is going to slow way down over the next few weeks.
male half fiend half dragon half orc half elf and TWICE the man for it! bard 6 scientist 5
A'loran Longstride wrote:
kava did you mean D2 since D1 is dead?
oh yeah him too :D
If the the levetating corpse attacks anyone else but me ... well we'll just deal with that when it happens
all baddies were in the sanction (in case anyone is thinking of switching sides)
male half fiend half dragon half orc half elf and TWICE the man for it! bard 6 scientist 5
I thought Sorik left with the other dwarves. Lets get out of here then and visit Faringray 1st when we get back to town :) See if he knows anything about the evil skull or if we should take it to the town sage
male half fiend half dragon half orc half elf and TWICE the man for it! bard 6 scientist 5
"A'loran, do you feel that? The skull feels ... well evil"
I Kava laughs at Latro's antics. Her ribs hurt a little but it feels good to laugh again. With the platemail secured over her shoulder she prepares to schlep it out of the tomb.
"I am in agreement. Best we leave as quick as we can"
male half fiend half dragon half orc half elf and TWICE the man for it! bard 6 scientist 5
Ghetto DM wrote:
Canas Evermeet wrote:
Sorry, missed the last few posts on the last page. Down to 4 HP, if anyone's interested.
Kava healed you 6 on her last hit.
'Am taking thanks in the form of Gold coin ;D
Full Name
Barret Orc-Born
Race
Half Orc
Classes/Levels
Cleric of Gorum/4 |HP 31/32|Init +3|AC 21, FF 20, T 11|Fort +6, Ref +3, Will +9|Perception +12|Channel (2d6) 2/4
Gender
Male
Alignment
Chaotic Good
Strength
15
Dexterity
12
Constitution
12
Intelligence
10
Wisdom
18
Charisma
12
About Barret Orc-Born
Stat Block:
Barret
Male half-orc cleric of Gorum 4
CG Medium humanoid (human, orc)
Init +3; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +12
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 21, touch 11, flat-footed 20 (+10 armor, +1 Dex)
hp 32 (4d8+9)
Fort +6, Ref +3, Will +9
Defensive Abilities orc ferocity
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft. (20 ft. in armor)
Melee armor spikes +1 (1d6+2) or
. . dagger +5 (1d4+2/19-20) or
. . mwk falchion +6 (2d4+3/18-20)
Ranged light crossbow +4 (1d8/19-20)
Special Attacks channel positive energy 4/day (DC 13 [15 to damage undead], 2d6)
Domain Spell-Like Abilities (CL 4th; concentration +8)
. . 7/day—strength surge (+2), touch of glory (+4)
Cleric Spells Prepared (CL 4th; concentration +8)
. . 2nd—bull's strength[D], hold person (DC 16), resist energy, spiritual weapon
. . 1st—bless, divine favor, enlarge person[D] (DC 15), magic weapon, shield of faith
. . 0 (at will)—detect magic, guidance, read magic, resistance
. . D Domain spell; Domains Glory, Strength
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 15, Dex 12, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 12
Base Atk +3; CMB +5; CMD 16
Feats Heavy Armor Proficiency, Toughness
Traits observant, reactionary
Skills Acrobatics -4 (-8 to jump), Diplomacy +8, Intimidate +3, Knowledge (religion) +5, Perception +12, Sense Motive +8, Survival +4 (+6 to avoid becoming lost); Racial Modifiers +2 Intimidate
Languages Common, Orc
SQ orc blood
Combat Gear oil of bless weapon (2), wand of cure light wounds, wand of summon monster i (CL 3rd, 8 charges), acid (2), holy water (2); Other Gear +1 armor spikes full plate, crossbow bolts (30), dagger, light crossbow, mwk falchion, cloak of resistance +1, wayfinder[ISWG], backpack, belt pouch, flint and steel, grappling hook, silk rope (50 ft.), spell component pouch, trail rations (4), traveler's outfit, waterskin, wooden holy symbol of Gorum, 176 gp, 2 sp, 5 cp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Cleric Channel Positive Energy 2d6 (4/day, DC 13) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.
Cleric Domain (Glory) Granted Powers: You are infused with the glory of the divine, and are a true foe of the undead. In addition, when you channel positive energy to harm undead creatures, the save DC to halve the damage is increased by 2.
Cleric Domain (Strength) Granted Powers: In strength and brawn there is truth–your faith gives you incredible might and power.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Orc Blood Half-orcs count as both humans and orcs for any effect related to race.
Orc Ferocity (1/day) If brought below 0 Hp, can act as though disabled for 1 rd.
Strength Surge (7/day) (Sp) Grant +2 to a melee attack or strength check.
Touch of Glory +4 (7/day) (Sp) Grant +4 to a CHA-based skill or ability check.
Wayfinder (empty)
Background and Description:
Barret stands a solid 6' and 230lbs, with short cropped black hair and brown eyes. He was born in the Hold of Belkzen to a now destroyed orc tribe. Savaged from a young age, he learned to keep from sight and fight from the shadow rather than on open ground. at 16, he fled from his tribe. Wandering on his own in the wilderness, it was not long before he succumbed to the elements and thirst. When he awoke, he found himself in the human stronghold of Trunau, being tended to by the clerics of Iomedae there. When he regained his strength and was able to walk in the town, he found something he never experienced with the Orcs: acceptance. The humans there treated him not as something inferior, but as an equal in their suffering. He joined the militia there, battling on the front line in the name Gorum. A year later, he was fully accepted as one of the hold in the coming-of-age ceremony. But he was unsatisfied with the plight of his new family: always under siege, always fearing when their next meal will be cut off, always fearing what little line of supply they have will one day be lost. After many years, he heard of the Pathfinder Society, specifically the Silver Crusade, and their penchant for helping people who have things they want. Hoping that the Hold of Belkzen would hold something of interest to the Society, Barret left to try and and convince them to aid the first to treat him as an equal in keeping their lines secure, in exchange for using Trunau as a safe haven within the hold.
