Pickles Grr's page

You're assuming it is intended to plan out complicated builds rather than fix errors you made when levelling.

Turnips. Oh and more turnips.

even with only the basic actions available to them, as the GM and as experienced with the new version, you should at least point out to them how much more accessible, easy to use, and useful, the new maneuver system is (grab/trip especially, shove is as always bound by the terrain for usefulness and disarm is kinda terrible imo. As well as intimidate.

I'm really intrigued what the party composition is, because most martials have plenty of access from 1st level for things to do.

Shield Fighter, Monk, Pet plus Bow precise Ranger, Cloistered Cleric.

None of them had seen PF2 before we started and as they were expecting to play 5e there was some sulking.

Manoeuvres are effected by MAP so fail in the same way.

The Ranger had obviously got control pet and mark target but the pet was pretty automatic and we forgot the mark target (:O)) He also chose to move out of volley range on occasion (that is a dreadful rule). Archers have always been as dull as anything to play but the pet & the mark target will I hope make this more interesting by pressuring the actions. It was still pet shoot twice a lot of the time - not exciting to me, but I think the player likes it and much better than shoot 3 times.

In a static melee the monk was even more blessed with attacks at -10 (well -8) as flurry gets him a free one.

The cloistered cleric was particularly disgruntled at learning new things and cloistered clerics seem bad - no spammable cantrips and pretty poor with his X-bow. He is a gnome so will probably retrofit a primal cantrip or two and that seems fine. Or switch to battle cleric (which is also mediocre as a gnome, but looks OK otherwise).

They all set up flanking all the time - this is super easy at the cost of a terrible attack with no OAs.

Aargh sorry for long derail. I am excited by PF2 but it certainly has some red flags for me (arithmetic basically) so I'm feeling my way with rather conservative players.

This seems to be an issue of playing pf2 like pf1. Standing still and attacking three times is probably one of the worst tactical choices.

Only if you have actions that are not attack or move which a lot of characters will not. Well in my limited first one sixth of Plaguestone experience. The fighter had plenty to do with actions the others really ran out of things to do other than attack at -10.

I was DMing & they were completely new to PF2. I know if I get to play I will be making sure I have some, but not too many, auxiliary actions and reactions.

If it is easier think of it this way: if the DC is 15 you need to roll a 5 to fail, and a 15 to succeed. You only critically succeed on a 20. If you focus on the idea that the person rolling wants to shift their success tier up, the numbers all stay consistent.

The issue is that you do not need a 5 to fail, you need a 6.

Another way of expressing the asymmetry is that you can succeed by 0 if you hit the DC exactly but if you fail it is by at least 1.

Anyhow while this bugs me from an aesthetic point of view it is not a mechanical one.

The original point that crit fails are twice as likely as crit successes is only at one point on the relative attack/defence curve. At most other points they are skewed more and in either direction.

I will add my two cents and say, no it's not supposed to be an even statistical chance of crit failure or crit success. In fact, it almost never will be because your modifier to the roll and DC will impact more than anything. If you are targeting AC 10 with an attack roll of +20, guess what you're going to crit (except on a nat 1 which reduces success levels by 1 step, IIRC).

This I agree with

It DC+10 to crit success and DC-10 for crit failure. It's that simple. Don't over complicate it. Don't overthink it.

If it's a DC 15 challenge, a 25 is a crit success and a 5 is a crit fail.

Except in one case it's 25 or more and in the other it's 15 or less. to at least fail you have to get 16.

Essentially the asymmetry is because the active dice rolling player wins ties. eg If you sneak up on someone with the same perception as your stealth they have a 45% chance to see you, if they try to see you hiding they have a 55% chance to see you. Spells with attacks are a tiny bit better than spells with saves for this reason too.

It is hardly a new problem - 3.5 had failing by 10 when climbing meant you fell & it bugged me then. It still bugs me but I am used to it. Definitely overthinking it.

About the AC thing being gamist, it was not as much as the concept per se, but the actuality of how it plays. You get a 10 level wizard wading unscathed into a 500 volley of arrows and cannonbals fired by lv1-2 guardsmans.

That's very much the same in PF2. It's the opposite "problem" in 5e - who needs heroes when 50 archers will take out a dragon and there are thousands of archers.

Given the suspension of disbelief I have to engage in as soon as there are levels and HP this is not really a problem for me. In practice PCs fight what they fight & the rules of the game do not necessarily define the rules of the world (very much not simulationist)

Gust of Wind prevents you moving against it - super narrow situational use in corridors. It also shoots down fliers that fail saves which seems strong for a level 1 spell that you don't need to heighten.

"The class says it gets wild morph focus spell for free and the wild shape feat for free (but there's also a wild shape focus spell which is same name but different which I don't quite understand)."

The feat grants you access to the spell. It's the only way to get to cast it.

"Do I get my focus point back after 10 mins if I use refocus? So I can use focus spells multiple times a day?"

Yes. Yes.

"When do I gain additional focus points for the druid?"

From Feats that say you do. They seem a little rare for Wild Shapers.

"When can I use higher level focus spells?"

When you take Feats that grant them. They are always heightened to half your level rounded up (like the highest level spell you can cast) so you get to use better animal forms etc.