Gold Dragon

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In the immortal words of Ken Wanatabe "Let them fight!"


What you are describing is personality traits. Alignments are about your nature and your values. They give slight direction but don't say anything specific.

I always tend to use the Inner Sea World Guide as my compass because it has alignment descriptions that are the easiest to relate to, while still staying relevant to the rest of the source material.

ISWG describes alignment as follows:

Good - Good hearted and good natured. Motivated by the Right thing to do. They do right by their allies, communities and total strangers. They generally want to leave the world in better condition than they came into it

Neutral - Does right by themselves and their immediate influences. Will only do true harm or true good if coerced.

Evil - A cold malignant vanity or sadism. Cannot see satisfaction unless it comes at the expense or exploitation or another.

Lawful - Values structure and order. They believe in axioms, universality, honor, equity, protocol, structure, traditions and conventions. Lawful tend to be pragmatic and big picture thinking.

Chaotic - Values freedom from the aforementioned in Lawful. They can be defiant of legitimate authority, they take pride in their sense of liberty, and can often find themselves on the wrong side of the law or long-held conventions. Chaotic tends to be free-spirited and small picture thinking.

Neutral - Values a balance between Order and Impulse, neither, or something else altogether such as knowledge, power, money, or their own survival.

I'd run these ideas by your PCs to see where they feel they fall.


The Sideromancer wrote:
Pentacost wrote:

In a lot of ways, in a bigger picture without favoring one game or the other, she seems to be a Sorc/Oracle / Mystic Theurg. She casts from both Divine and Arcane equally proficiently, but also isn't a super powerful caster.

But then again, unlike Link, her loadout changes from game to game.
It would be fair to say while Link's "player" is in love with Ranger and plays Ranger steadily from Campaign to Campaign, Zelda's player likes to switch it up and try different classes and combinations each time there's a new campaign

I disagree. Zelda is almost always some variety of Divine caster (current favourite: Cold Iron Warden Inquisitor), But I've thought of Link as an

  • Eldritch knight (ALttP)
  • Archaeologist Bard (MC, WW)
  • Lore Warden fighter (TP, SSB)
  • Destined bloodrager->Arcane Archer (OOT)
  • Haunt Collector Occultist (MM)
  • Order of the Star Cavalier/Paladin (SS)
  • Champion-primary Medium (general)
  • Vanguard Slayer (PH, ST)
  • Martial master 20/champion 10 (HW)
  • Trap breaker Alchemist (BotW)

But, more on topic, I like the CIW inquisitor for most Zeldas as it can reasonably go any of stealthy (sheik), casting, or martial. The specialization against demons is primarily flavour.

I absolutely agree with your assessment


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In a lot of ways, in a bigger picture without favoring one game or the other, she seems to be a Sorc/Oracle / Mystic Theurg. She casts from both Divine and Arcane equally proficiently, but also isn't a super powerful caster.

But then again, unlike Link, her loadout changes from game to game.
It would be fair to say while Link's "player" is in love with Ranger and plays Ranger steadily from Campaign to Campaign, Zelda's player likes to switch it up and try different classes and combinations each time there's a new campaign


This is very good well-rounded melee support. Definitely not a keystone or tank, but would definitely play a good in-close support to them. Would probably be better than most other options, especially in flavor and utility.


Chess Pwn wrote:
I have a build for one of my characters. They are lv 6 and already have 4 classes, and the plan is for a 5th next level and then possibly another one after that. He has really nice synergy to pull together what he wants to be doing.

Mutliclassing at low levels sometimes can be a lot more effective than just a single class, thats for sure.


It's worth it to multi-class when the classes synergize, or can take advantage of stats or abilities shared between classes. usually these synergies consist of a 1-2 level dip in a class and then investing everything into a second class.

Where it's not worth it is spreading your abilities thin over many classes. The systemic equities for Pathfinder are far different than they were in 3.0 and 3.5. Whereas 3.x rewarded the "spread thin" multiclass, where there was no real detriment to doing so, and the games expecation was to fight increasing hoardes of weaker enemies, fighting something relative to your level in CR or above once in a while, Pathfinder punishes it. Pathfinder expects that your character gets more powerful to match the relative CR expectations of the creatures you'll be facing.

Most multiclasses are easier to "be" than "build." What I mean by that is some multiclass combinations, especially when you are spreading yourself thin between several classes, can be very difficult and not fun to level, and can leave you feeling at many times that you are not contributing as much as more focused characters.

It all comes down to the end goal of your build; what you are looking to accomplish.


wintersrage wrote:


I completely agree with that, but some GM's will say if you don't like how i GM there is the door, and that to me is a s$+$y GM. especially if they don't listen to their players.

I know a gm who gave a vampire the aquatic subtype, which makes it immune to the weakness to water, had its heart removed using a magic item that the heart is placed into, to allow the vampire to function without its heart as long as the heart is in the magic item, placed into a portable hole, making it immune to being staked, also had a ring that absorbed sunlight that touched the creature wearing it, making it immune to sunlight weakness.

After he sprung this vampire on us said after we said it is unfair, there is no way for us to kill it, even if we found its coffin, that he is the GM and he can do what ever he wants and if you don't like it you don't have to site at his table.

When we pointed out that the vampire was unkillable he said you don't need to point out the rules to him and if you do he will take it as you being a rules lawyer and will send a monster in game after you for doing it, each time you do it.

A GM who metagames his own tools to "punish" his players in-game is a Bad GM. He is an immature one at best. A child who would be God. It's actually *not* in a GM's job purvue to take any action against his players out of game through attacking their characters in-game. it's Metagaming at it's worst when you get right down to it.

Best advise I can give is to not game with him moving forward. Find a GM who corroborates with his PCs.


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My idea for hollowing is when you die, you make a DC 5 (+number of previous Deaths) Will Save. Every time you fail, you get -1 to all mental stats. When you reach 0 in any mental stat, you become a Fast Zombie, and lose control of your PC.

Humanity acts as a Lesser Restoration to remove these negatives.

Also, when you die, you resurrect at the closest Bonefire after 1d4+1 days


Testing the waters here, and don't know if it's been done or proposed before or not.

Who would be interested in a Dark Souls to Pathfinder Conversion Guide? Who would be interested in brainstorming ideas for such a guide?

I've been working on some ideas on my own, but wanted to open up to the community for a more collaborative effort.


Have an idea for a character I want to play, and in my usual style, I like to combine things together.

Combine the personalities of Captain America (MCU) and Soldier 76 (Overwatch). What kind of personality traits do you come up with?


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Halek wrote:

Se but he is a paladin and they have 3 full casters. The paladin gets like 3 attacks max and he doesnt shut down anything.

The full caster can just autowin. Martial cant.

And he can. If he tarpits the paladin then the rest of the party can deal with the other threats.

Correction; Caster are not autowin. They require work and proper planning. They are only autowin when you remove all context of the situation. When you don't know the full context of the situation, it's best to ask.

To address the quandary of the OP though, best bet: Cut him loose, don't invite him back, and be an adult about it. Let him know his immaturity makes everyone uncomfortable. I know you don't want to lose the sorcerer, but you just may have to. I know when my party was running Rise of the Runelords, we had started out with 5, but one player liked intra-party conflict a bit too much, so we had to ask him to leave. We also lost his girlfriend setting us up with only 3.

The AP after that the AP did become more stressful, but it also put the remaining 3 of us on top of are game. We were still able to finish the AP with 0 PC deaths and accomplished everything flawlessly.


I was thinking about it, but the earliest level I'd be able to do it with this build would be 16... which would only give me only 4 levels of Dragon Disciple to work with. Heavy Armor is an intended part of the build. I was definitely looking at it at first, but then realized it wouldn't work with what I wanted to do. Eldritch Scion gave almost all the same benefits without any of the drawbacks.

All in all though, may not be a bad idea, depending on the nature of the Campaign and how the character actually developes. 4 Levels of Dragon Disciple would be +2 More natural Armor, +2 More Strength, an Extra use of Breath Weapon and a Bonus Feat by Level 20.

*(Edit) and up to 4d12 extra HP


Cool! Thanks! I appreciate the feedback!


So for about 3 years now I've had this idea rolling around in my head that's a Paladin, not because of celestial favor or from will, but because he has a metallic dragon ancestor. a Draco-din if you will.

This is a Non-Gestalt build that takes a 2 Level dip into Paladin and then everything else into Magus (Eldritch Scion Archetype) (STRagus) to Level 16, and with the Magical Knack trait to make up for the lost 2 spell levels from taking Paladin.

So I spent 3 days coming up with a build for this concept. a Paladin who uses a Keen Long sword (or keen Bastard sword with Effortless Lace) , but because of his Gold Dragon Bloodline, has a prodigy-like control of Fire, and So Favors Fire Magic. Of course though, I have made sure to take the "bread and butter" spells of a Magus like Shocking Grasp, Mirror Image, Displacement, Haste, Vampiric Touch, Stone Skin and Corrosive Consumption, and additionally tried to take at least 1 useful Fire spell at each level. Although he has claws a a Draconic Eldritch Scion, they are more of a perk of the build for if grappled or swallowed, favoring the heavier damage and crit range of a sword is all other circumstances.

What I'm looking for is some advice and side by side comparisons on how this build stacks up against other classes ideally. I'm not looking for comparisons for a Combat Monster or completely number-crunched build. I already have 4 characters like that. This is a Roleplay Concept Experiment, losing a touch of power in favor of versatility.

Below is a link to the build. But first, and last, A couple of things to keep in mind: This is not a Level 20 / Level 16 character. This is a composite layout of the character, giving rough snapshots on the build at certain levels, so you are able to see where the character generally stands from level to level. Any other questions, thoughts, suggestions, etc, feel free to respond here or comment on the document itself.

Dracodin Experiment Google Doc @ https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UGrG-qi93yQ29bYFBAwA0ySI2P4UpqlH0wB WkXtpdtk/edit#gid=0