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A Man In Black wrote: Black Tiger wrote: I have posted some questions, and they have been ignored. Looks like there is a double standard. Say something against the left and you get called on it. Someone on the left says something disparaging about a person on the right and nothing. Aw. You're so terribly oppressed. Nope, just pointing out the bias and unwillingness of some people to engage in conversation without resorting to sarcasm and such. Thanks for showing me who you really are though.
stringburka wrote: People claiming sexism or racism is a "fraud" or otherwise claiming they don't exist are... Really out there, to put it politely and not break any forum rules. Seriously, that claim is beyond ridiculous. Sexism and racism are EVERYWHERE, and I live in a country famous for having higher equality than most (Sweden). I see it every day, have seen immigrants being subject to racial slurs from both private and public institutions on a regular basis, seeing women and men treated as vastly different beings (the classic "a sexually active woman is a slut, a sexually active man is a stud" is still as relevant as ever, for example).
Those claims are a whole new category of stupid, and I assume people who advocate them either simply likes a fair bit of of sexism (and to a lesser extent, racism; racists don't usually deny being racist as much as sexists deny being sexist) or they don't know crap about the society they live in.
Wow, you completely ignored what I and others have said.
I have posted some questions, and they have been ignored. Looks like there is a double standard. Say something against the left and you get called on it. Someone on the left says something disparaging about a person on the right and nothing.
GeraintElberion wrote: Atarlost wrote: GeraintElberion wrote: Black Tiger wrote: As far as racism/feminism etc are concerned... I'll take it more seriously when those that use it as a scapegoat get called out by the people on their side. I.E. when I hear of racism in the news, I assume that it is a lie and that there is no racism, until I see Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson get on the camera and say that in this particular case it is not racism. Same with any other form of -ism. Until then, my attitude is "yeah, riiiight". You're destroying your own argument.
If some celebrity-mouthpiece was out yelling about anti-redhead discrimination they'd be laughed off the podium.
Accusations of sexism still sting, still have power, are still sometimes abused because sexism is a real issue which genuinely effects people's lives. Phishing sites still work, still have power, are still sometimes abused because credit card numbers are a real issue which genuinely effects people's lives.
Sexism is just another fraud. The public figures make money off it and any real sexism gets lost among the unsupported allegations leaving real victims worse off. Your last two sentences directly contradict one and other.
If there are real victims then how can it be 'just another fraud'?
Maybe the fact that some people lie about sexism does not actually discredit genuine sexual inequality?
Maybe? You may not think so, I do. It gets thrown around so much, even when it doesn't apply that it does not affect me. It does detract from the real victims because I'm less likely to act or react when I hear of it.
It's like the boy who cried wolf. But instead of one boy, you have 100 boys... after the 10th, 20th, 30th time of running to save someone only to find out it was false, you maybe don't run as fast to the next one or start ignoring it altogether. Sucks if that boy was actually being attacked by a real wolf. No one would get there in time.
I honestly don't know how to make it any clearer than that. Too many scapegoating has desensitized me (I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in this) that when I hear about it, I doubt it, or I don't care as much as I should. Which is bad if there is a real victim.
You should also take into account who the victim is if the charge of sexism is leveled against someone when there is no sexism involved. Things like these can go to court and cost lots of money to resolve. What about affirmative action type laws? Did she get that job because she was better than Joe or because the company had to fill a quota? Add that all up together and real victims of sexism, sexual harassment, and racism are getting drowned out by all the other noise.
It sucks, but there it is.
Sean K Reynolds wrote: Black Tiger wrote: That may be true, but I was commenting on her career as an actress, not her as a person. There is a difference. It doesn't matter if you're commenting on her acting career, her choice of eyewear, the color of her hair, or her voting record. The point is it's mean-spirited and irrelevant to the actual topic--the content of her quote--and it negatively colors the reader's impression of you. Thank you for the remark. I will do better in the future.
However, I have to ask. Did anyone get upset or think less of Anderson Cooper or his opinion when he referred to the Tea Party as a bunch of t********s? (self deleted just in case.)
Whether you agree or disagree with the views of the tea party did you laugh and cheer at what he said or did you lose any respect for him and his view point? ("You" in this context is the reader and not anyone specific.)
A Man In Black wrote: Black Tiger wrote: That may be true, but I was commenting on her career as an actress, not her as a person. There is a difference. It's no different than if I commented on your superb writing skills or style. It's your professional skills not you as a person that I'm commenting on.
I'd be willing to take racism/sexism more seriously though if someone can show me what I asked for. I've looked but have not found it.
You've made a patently ridiculous demand, calling out people who have made a career of out-spoken/fairly extreme activism (and one actress/comedian with an abrasive personality). You're so offended that they aren't moderate in their views that you refuse to accept anything anyone says that they might agree with.
Understand that the only reaction this is going to get you is scorn. I happen to agree with Janeane when it comes to her view on the Iraq war. What I have made is a request to have someone come out and say the truth. I'm not offended, just not taking them seriously. They can say whatever they want, I can ignore whoever I want. Never said I was offended. It will take a lot to get my dander up, this isn't one of them.
Oh, and here is Janeane, commenting on her own career as an actress taken from imdb.com:
"(2007, on her career in film) I don't think Hollywood was trying to do anything with me. In fact, they lost interest pretty quick. I think I got lucky, briefly, in the '90s, and it just so happened that those movies were the opportunities that came my way. Then it just kind of stopped. You get pigeonholed if you don't look a certain way. I don't know what happened, really. I think I got older and drank too much. Then I got sober and worked at Air America for two years. Now I don't know what's gonna happen next."
So, she and I somewhat agree there as well. :)
Sean K Reynolds wrote: Black Tiger wrote: You have that failed actress Jeneane Garofalo with this lovely quote...
So, with so many sound bites like this, I can't take racism or feminism seriously.
With casual and unnecessary personal attacks like the one you made about Janeane Garofalo, it's hard to take you or your position seriously. That may be true, but I was commenting on her career as an actress, not her as a person. There is a difference. It's no different than if I commented on your superb writing skills or style. It's your professional skills not you as a person that I'm commenting on.
I'd be willing to take racism/sexism more seriously though if someone can show me what I asked for. I've looked but have not found it.
ProfessorCirno wrote: Black Tiger wrote: As far as racism/feminism etc are concerned... I'll take it more seriously when those that use it as a scapegoat get called out by the people on their side. I.E. when I hear of racism in the news, I assume that it is a lie and that there is no racism, until I see Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson get on the camera and say that in this particular case it is not racism. Same with any other form of -ism. Until then, my attitude is "yeah, riiiight". ThingsWhitePeopleSay.txt I'm not ashamed of who I am or what I believe. I'm just saying that if anyone wants racism/sexism taken seriously, don't throw it around so easily, especially if it is not racism. The best story that I can think of off the top of my head is a while back two groups of black kids got into a brawl at a high school football game. They were suspended. Jackson or Sharpton, don't remember which, was there immediately calling the principal and school board a bunch of racists. What we don't know is if there was ever a group white kids that did the same thing and received the same punishment. See where I'm going with this?
There are other stories like this as well. What I have found out is that the liberal left throws that term around to shut up their opponents 'cause nobody wants to be labeled a racist. It's happened so often, that I've gotten desensitized.
Show me some stories (true stories) of where someone cries racism and Sharpton or Jackson jump in a say, "No, this is not racism. You were in the wrong." They won't do it, this is where they thrive.
You have that failed actress Jeneane Garofalo with this lovely quote, "Herman Cain is probably well-liked by some of the Republicans because it hides the racist elements of the Republican Party, conservative movement and tea party movement," Garofalo said. So basically Herman Cain didn't get to where he is at on his own merits, that's disingenuous at best.
"The problem with Garofalo's premise is that there is no way in her mind that tea party conservatives can prove that they are not racist. Oppose a black man and one is racist. Support a black man and one is racist as well. As Mr. Spock would say, with an arched eyebrow, it does not compute." (quoted from http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/8959255/garofalo_maher_confused_ab out_herman.html?cat=9)
So, with so many sound bites like this, I can't take racism or feminism seriously.
I'm a little disappointed with your response, I was hoping to see a bunch of quotes... would have been good for a laugh. Oh well.
Benicio Del Espada wrote: Freehold DM wrote: Benicio Del Espada wrote: Arevashti wrote: Regarding equating feminism with misandry: Most of the time, that seems to fall into one of three categories: anecdotes, deliberate strawmen, or second-and-third-hand accounts of one or the other. This. Bears repeating.^ Is this to say that misandry is so rare that it doesn't exist? No. It's to say that accusations of it accompany any mention of feminism so frequently, the "man-hating feminist" is a common stereotype.
Taking the writings of Andrea Dworkin and saying that she represents most feminists is akin to saying that the actions of Scott Roeder are acceptable to most anti-abortion activists.
Yet, that's what you see whenever the conservative talkers get worked up into a lather. You'll never see a "fair and balanced" (lol) discussion of anything or anyone having to do with feminism on Faux news. They say it with the same disdain they usually reserve for things like "class war" and "liberal." You get the same from the other news sources as well. All of them have long since stopped reporting the news and have started pushing an agenda.
As far as racism/feminism etc are concerned... I'll take it more seriously when those that use it as a scapegoat get called out by the people on their side. I.E. when I hear of racism in the news, I assume that it is a lie and that there is no racism, until I see Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson get on the camera and say that in this particular case it is not racism. Same with any other form of -ism. Until then, my attitude is "yeah, riiiight".
I love the front cover! That is awesome!
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