NullVOID's page

I appreciate everyone input and I agree with some of what has been said.

At this point I still believe that the Rules on combat,skills, ect should be played as raw as possible to give some stability for the players.

Maybe Vicon is right, maybe I have been mind ninja'd by terrible DM's over these past months lol. I just get in these terrible situations where I just sit back thinking WTF? seriously dude! lol

I just had a game where we had serious trouble climbing a knotted rope that was against a wall. (no danger, no rush) with 15 skill check we kept failing.. Couldn't take ten, .. these kinda things.. are just, .. it kills me.. . I just want to flip to the page where climb DCs are and tell the dude he is an idiot then leave.

but instead like a good player and a decent guy I let it slide. I shut my mouth because its not that big of a deal. gotta know when to pick your battles.

I agree that the GM has the power to make the story, and even has the power to make a final decision on a rule, but like many have said the dm should have a good reason to say no if you have a complaint on a rule ect..

Evil Loncoln really is spot on when saying "no, but yes."

.. Besides to me when you do not use the correct DC's, the correct rules it means you either don't care or don't know what the hell you are doing. I DM all the time and I would feel like a prick if I acted like that.

The problem I have is that Im a fantastic DM that doesnt want to DM.

I would rather just be a player. It's more for to me.

lol

It's TOTALLY ok Null -- emotions run high in the forums especially on issues that are exceedingly prescient and close to home for the OP, or people who have their own passionate investment in their viewpoint. I'll concede I could have been better at marketing my point - but I'm glad you were able to dig far enough down to see it wasn't entirely a bag of iron-filings for you to eat.

If it's any consolation (or enlightening) you could see in my recent thread history that I got into similar friction for holding a stance very similar to yours in a different situation (a situation where a GM was utterly and unrepentantly hijacking the rules to basically turn his players into a backdrop for his antagonists, rather than the other way around.

But all that being said -- and I'm sorry it's harsh -- but there are REAMS AND REAMS of unambiguously worded language that contradict your agency as a participant to what a GM can decide. Thoughtful GMs will consider their players and do their best to make for a good time -- but they run the show. This hasn't truly been up for debate... like ever. The players should not, and nowhere does it say they should, form committees to debate whether what a DM is doing is fair. Bad DM? Fire him.

But these forums are full of bad participant threads. Sometimes it's the GMs that are being jerks, more often though I see threads about individual (or a couple) of bad players with too big a sense of entitlement or an inability to think outside the box of their own enjoyment... Perhaps you see something some way, not just because it gives you a mechanical advantage -- but because you actually are firmly behind the logic of it. However, the GM sees it differently, and instead of your minor (or major) mechanical advantage he has to see the entire game through the headache-inspiring ripple effect of just what his capitulation means in the grand architecture of the entire ruleset. We all got read "If you give a mouse a cookie" in nursery school. Welcome to the minute to minute life of a GM...

What emotions? You act as if I got all hulk angry! Everything is cool buddy. It's only a discussion over the internet. How upset could I possibly get? lol

Ok first off, the entire EDIT was written literally 20 seconds after I made my post. I could have edited the entire thing.. but I felt at the time it was enough. I did not want to waste my time to rewrite everything. And yes, if someone told me those comments in person I would definitely b~$+! slap him to the floor.

I am sure you don't talk to your players like this Vicon. Hell buddy, I am sure you are a good dude.

Now that we are done bickering like old women.. lets get to the issue.

Are there "reams and reams" of content that says the DM is always right? hell yes there is. Just look at any 1st or 2nd gen book and you can see clearly that the GM is written as the supreme god commander of everything.

I have been playing and DMing DND for 18+ years and have been fortunate to have intelligent, creative, excellent DMs. I have also been in countless games with terrible DMs. You know the difference between the two? Good DMs are consistently sticking to RAW.. the bad DM's make up their own stupid s%$&. There are exceptions, but these exceptions know the rules, the game, and know their players and are excellent DMs in general.

You know why this subject is so damn hard to even approach? There are just to many type of games to consider. If you play DND like the guys I play with now.. its no more than a kiddie game. lol No one cares about their characters.. " I attack the king " type of stuff..

If you like playing these games then the rules don't mean anything to you. you could be using any system and be happy. These people just dont know any better.

But

If you are a serious gamer then playing by raw is your best option. It allows you to know what you can do. It allows you to control your environment. It is consistent.. It allows you to never feel cheated.

You know when you play by raw that if something bad happens its because of bad luck (dice) or because of a bad decision on your part. Oops maybe i should have never let myself get surround by these goblins.. ect

You want to create a story then do it but keep that story within the written rules as much as possible unless your a fantastic DM

Now about the players. can players feel entitled? sure.. can we be assclowns? sure.. but following RAW will carve most of our complaints out.

This is a difficult discussion guys. We all have our opinions but only one option is the best option.

Thank you all for taking the time to share your thoughts. Even if i dont agree with ya :).

Thx guys.

I met the dude.. got American gods signed.

I have read most of his novels but am kinda embarrassed to say I never even knew he did comics.

Pretty cool.

Sigilwraith.. Im going to look those up buddy. Thanks for the insight.

Remember my place? Fall back in line? Thank stars for having any GM?

Are you insane dude? lol If someone told me that.. .. man.. that s&~! is just dickish. If that was said to me in person.. .. Those words would result in an immediate slap to the face.

If you don't have anything intelligent to say then just shut your mouth.. maybe I go to far.. but your tone just erks me.

At this point Vicon you seem like your defending yourself. Rather than trying to have a discussion.

You talk as if the GM is this almighty thing. A GM has no real power the same thing for the players.. The GM is there to tell a story. He is there to give you a challenge. To guide you. To make final ruling on behalf of the players. If the players have a problem with a ruling then accommodations/discussion should be made either during or after an adventure.. The only "power" The GM has is given to him from his players.

This is the reason following the rules as written as much as you can is important, because no one feels cheated. No one feels like they are getting the shaft. The GM has his tools the players have their tools. Both sets of tools rarely change and therefor can be relied upon.

SO I will agree on one thing. Can a GM do anything he wants? Sure..
but He will not have a game with me or anyone with self respect.

Also, making up sephiroth's, final fantasy characters.. ect these kinda things are kiddy things and the concept is really just stupid.

Vicon.. awesome making friends with ya man *sarcasm*

lol

EDIT: Vicon sorry for trashing ya a little bit man. I think I know what you are saying and I respect your opinion. Its just I think you should have said it in a different way. No hard feelings ok? I dont want this thread to get derailed by stupid bickering. thanks for your input. Thx

I thought Unseen servant can only lift up to 20lbs?

My turn.. Im bringing it back old school to a time when I played a little game called "rifts"

So we decide to raid the bad guys hideout and take care of him once and for all, but I know this will not be an easy battle so I do some prepwork batman style and create a zipline off the mountain into a very thin forrest with very little tree growth below just in case things got hairy.

We made our way into the bad guys camp only to find out that we had been.. AMBUSH!! I yelled and out from the buildings jumped a s$!% ton of bad guys that we had no chance of victory against.

We RAN like any sane person would in the face of total defeat. We used the zip line as intended and barely escaped, but we knew we had little time to think of a plan. The enemy would be on our trail shortly. My friend played a wizard type illusionist character at the time. He also is sort of a genius.

He came up with a plan to create a rain forrest for us to have better cover to hide in. He could create basically anything he wanted if he made max rolls.

We did everything we could to help him. Made his abilities as high as we could get them. We used all of our resources for this last ditch chance.

He rolled to create an illusionary rain forrest to hide us, but it wasnt just one roll it was 10. Each roll would count as trees, creatures, rivers, ect

He rolled critical success after critical success to the point he had impossibly made an entire forest including wildlife, rivers, all of it seemed real to whoever saw it. It was literaly the coolest thing i have seen happen ever. He pulled off a miracle.

Genius mixed with some miracle rolls.

The GM got so frustrated that he rage quit. Yelling at us saying we ruined his campaign and that he was quiting. He promptly took all his things and went home.

Later after he had calmed down i have found out that we were soposed to be captured. His entire story depended on us being captured.

rOFL

"Didnt know who was f%&@in with!"

Listen, I dont mind if you say elves died out, or the lands are different, or gods had died and have now been replaced by your own creations.. That to me is story telling.

Perfectly fine.

I guess for the crutch of this discussion really comes down to the "rules" portion. If you change the rules on a whim or use a rule wrong and it effects me in a way that is significant I cant help but call b&~+!+~$ on it.

Like being hit by an arrow because my friend does not have precise shot.
some exceptions.. sure, if you botch bad, ect but it has to make sense. If you friend has a higher AC than the enemy how is it realistic that you hit him when you missed the enemy? Sure you can weave a BS story to make it happen but is it fun for the players? Hell no..

All of you seem to be all good people and have the common sense to take suggestions when It comes to things like this. It Looks like so far only a small minority has the attitude of "deal with it of gtfo" and that makes me happy that we are going into a future where the "GTFO" people are dying off.

Regardless of the situation I always recommend to bring these things up after the encounter or even after the game. If It is not dire then dont slow down the game with it.

thanks guys for sharing your thoughts It has been great reading your opinions.

I think I know those players. lol

Black Tom..I feel your pain and I know exactly what your going through. S@%* will either get better or not.. but atleast know your not the only person with the problem..

I haven't been on these damn boards for very long.. but man.. not to be an assclown.. but I am really starting to dislike "casual" players..

Also..

CLPARIS.. how did you find that game? I would love to find a game like that.

Blacktom Take care of yourself buddy.

I have always seen 1st lvl as an epiphany from an action.

It is usually something elaborate like having to choose to defend your city, to studying in secret to learn that 0 lvl spell..

It just hits you like a lightning bolt, or finally grows on you through time.

.. I dont know guys.. lol

You guys are awesome.. Loving the Stories and I thank everyone for taking the time to tell em.

I would really love to grab an entire collection of real life bad GM stories and put them in a book for us to read. ShiftyBobs is going on the first page.

dude that would just suck.

Everyone loves hearing about bad DM's it seems.

@PAN That is what will probably end up happening. It sounds fun the only downside for me really comes down to the hours of play. I have really gotten used to playing 6+ hours at a time lol. I can always can just take another DND vacation and concentrate on one of my MAN hobbies as my girlfriend likes to call them. Love camping, poker, working on cars, building things.. ect

LOL..

IronTruth.. U Critical.. roll to confirm.

lol

I believe To have it any other way than a Collaborative process would just feel like I was gaming under some fascism regime.

Adamantine Dragon I disagree with you, but we are not that far off from each others viewpoints. You seem to be an exception because you brought up the consistency issue.

If the GM needs to change things to make some cool scene happen that just wouldn't go with the rules as written than that's fine... That is story telling. BUT changing things is a slippery slope my friend.

When does it stop?

If you just flip flop rules whenever it suites you how am I so posed to feel like I can control a situation?

And how am I not going to feel Like I was somehow cheated a victory.

This is just my feelings on it.. s*~$ I could be wrong. lol

Just wanted to stop in and give you your props.

Trinam great guide man. I was thinking about doing one myself but you beat me to it.

Props to U and the community thanks you.

Take care.

Wow.. Those are some fighting words Edduardco lol.

that guy is grade A douchbag. sorry buddy.

look on the bright side.. you made me feel better about my s@&!ty dm.

The question:

Can a GM do anything he wants at anytime regardless of the players decisions or input?

I have met a few people that would say that the GM can do anything he wants at anytime to the players and to his world without any deliberation between them. If it means changing the rules, breaking the rules, making the impossible possible..Anything and Everything is ok and should never be questioned by the players.

Do you think the GM has the right to do anything he wants? If so Why?

Personally I think the game is a collaboration between the players and the GM. If the GM wants to change something he not only has to tell his players but also get them to agree on the change.

Also! Most if not all changes should be discussed before the campaign begins and not added in between or in the middle of adventures.

What do you think everyone?

At this point I am just going to wait till the next game and tell the GM and the players what my thoughts are. If I don't get a satisfactory response back I will go ahead and quit.

At the very least it will be funny to see what they say back.

If he gives me that whole I'm the GM, I'm god! what I say goes..

.. I'm just going to laugh and leave.

Was your DM Andy Kaufman?

lol That is hilarious .. I am sorry.. but .. lol i cant believe you stayed that long.

That my friend is dedication. *claps*

respect shiftybob

:)

So I started this thread because I have a terrible DM. I am now at the point where I want to just quit. However there are no other games that I can get into because I dont know anyone else here in Mesa AZ.

So, I figure if i hear other people stories about their crappy DM(or players) I wont feel as bad. lol

My DM does not know the rules.. what dm doesnt know the rules to his own game? He does not control the players attentions. If you do not have precise shot and you fire at an enemy fighting a friend and you miss.. you hit your friend. (cant stand this.) He makes any NPC the most annoying thing in the world. They all can do impossible things never die or have any consequences for stupid decisions .. also Constantly fluffs the dice rolls to go against you.

Then I got the players.. They do not think, they are not serious about the game, they also do not know the rules. i have one dude that cheats on his dice rolls like crazy and the DM never says a word.

They also have no idea how alignment works so they just pick a chaotic neutral, neutral or lawful evil or whatever evil they think they can get to pass and alignment that seems to allow them to do anything they want. then they act like douche bags taking nothing seriously then point to their alignment to cover whatever stupid idea they thought of.

I could go on and on.

they are good people, but man.. I cant stand it sometimes. Makes me cringe. Maybe they are just how younger people play the game.

i don't know guys.. maybe im the asshat here?

Tell me your stories :) thanks

Are there any Online P&P places out there that are decent? I read a couple places that there are online pathfinder games where you use skype or something to that extent.

Just interested in your thoughts on if these site/s are any good
and what would be the best place to start to get all the information on running or playing in a campaign .

thanks guys

A lot of archtypes are not equal I agree. However I cant really say how much of a hindrance Two Handed Fighter archtypes No armor training will play in the future.

Lets face it.. 90+ percent of all Archtypes suck and are worthless to a party of people that want to be winners.

If you want to be that quirky character with strange abilities then go for it but in my campaigns people tend to want to be as strong as they can be.

I think most of this comes from having players that are very knowledgeable on the rules and can min/max the s@$* out of any character you put them in. I am not talking ridiculous rule bending min/max but just optimized builds. They know what they want to do and do it.

when you have players like that a lot of the martial class's fall towards the wayside simply because they don't have as much potential.

I make it fun for everyone but I would hate to see my fighter player get discouraged or feel like he is the weakest of the party.

Thanks for FAQ Odraude.

EDIT: you think this ability is bad.. Don't get me started on the carnage a summoner can do.

I agree with ya Wraithstrike. I understand where you are coming from.
Especially when it comes to having a low lvl ability being so powerful.

The fact is the ability was not well written. We are left to do whatever we think is right with it at this point until an errata comes out or dev makes a solid comment on the issue.

It's just one of those things.

I paid a crap load of money for these books and yet I still have to work out stupid little things like this.

lol.

Hopefully we can get a dev comment on the issue and clear this up before the players get to epic.

Correct, I had meant you look your weapon training for non two handed weapons.

Thanks Talynonyx for the correction.

Now that we have been bouncing it around. I think I'm just going to house rule a straight 2.5 replacing the normal 1.5 for two handed.

.5 doesn't seem a powerful enough to me for all that you give up.

2.0 to weak
3.5 to strong
2.5 just right.

I will bounce around the topic from time to time and see if a dev can clear up the ruling.

thanks for the discussion guys I really do appreciate your thoughts.

You loose all your armor training and your weapon training. :) Regardless
Davor .5 is 50% man.

In regards to stacking.. If it adds to your strength and everything can be used legally without cheating then you double it.

If you have an 18(+4) with a Belt of str (+4) and your large (+2)

you have a +7 total.

This : 7x2 for OC = 14 + 1-1/2 for TH = 21 DMG

VS

7x2 for TH = 14

21 (the way it is written) VS 14 (what some people assume)

big difference I give you.. but still.

I just use the rule how it reads until they change it or a dev answers.

If so many people feel strongly about the alternative way I very may well be wrong and im fine with that. I just wish they typed what they meant.

I guess I stumbled onto one of those discussions where everyone has their own opinion and no amount of discussion will really solve it unless an actual DEV makes a comment.

And Yes the way I have it you would be dealing 3.5xsStr on a single attack because that is the way it was written.

Having it only give you .5 percent more seems really weak and not worth the investment in the archtype.

EDIT: Now that I think about it I kinda think they should have made the ability give you 2.5x for Two Handed Strikes.. then i think everyone would be happy.

How hard would it have been to say "you get 2.0xdmg instead of the normal 1.5 when using a single attack using a two handed weapon"

If their intention was to change the dmg on Two handed weapons from the normal 1.5 to a 2.0 they would have said it.

I still stubbornly think my way is fine until someone proves me wrong.

I see it this way.

Assuming +4 strength

Without power attack"
+8STR
+4 Two handed 1-1/2
= 2D6 +12 DMG Without power Attack.

With Power Attack.

Same as Above
+12str +3PA = 2D6 +15 with Power Attack

I simply use it how it is read.

It is a single powerful attack.

Can you abuse it? sure.. but you can abuse alot of things that are way worse than this ability

EDIT: So i am assuming if you do it my way.. dmg is increased by 25%?

And what kinda crazy str scores are you talking about? what lvl is he? lol

I dont understand what you mean by stacking.

So if you have an 18str(+4)then also havea belt of strength(+2)

Your strength total is +5.. +5 is doubled to +10 using overhand chop

So you are now +10 strength.. then you add your 1-1/2 for two handed dmg.

+15dmg.

Its not that hard.

So.. simply double your strength bonus and add your 1-1/2 for two handed dmg. and that's it.

If it was the other way and you changed your two handed dmg from 1.5 to 2.0 it would really kinda blow and wouldn't be worth the loss of all your ability's.

It seems to be something that you really would want to talk to your dm about.

If It was my game I would go ahead and rule in your favor. There is no difference in function besides the "repeating"

Kinda like firing a shotgun. Auto or single shell. it is essentially the same weapon and all the same mechanics would apply to fire it.

.... slippery slope i know..

I overlooked that as wekk darksol.

That is kinda a big one taking AOO when flat footed.

I see so many people really gimping this ability.

I have seen a lot of people rule that instead of the (x2 strength)
They are ruling that your two handed damage is changed from 1.5xdmg for to 2.0xdmg.

How are you coming to this conclusion? It doesn't say it changed it to 2.0x for two handed. It says it doubles your strength when making an attack with a two handed weapon. Simple.. Easy..

Stop nerfing ability's that do not need to be nerfed.

You changing this ability is hurting the fighter do his job effectivly. He gives up alot for mostly that one ability and yet you are taking it away. Why!? for what what?

Fighters are not the most powerful class. Hell, they really gotta buckle down and do their homework to keep up int he later lvls. Let them have their glory for once.

What do you think? Why do you use the 2.0 instead of the strength?

There is a reason why it is like that. The makers are not idiots.. sure things slip through the cracks sometimes but this ability is not one of them.

I would love to hear your opinion on it. Regardless if we disagree or not.

thanks again.

Odraude, dude.. I never read that part before.

Thanks man for teaching me something.

I gotta re-read the entire combat section a couple times through. I am still new to the system.

From what I can read a sunder would be allowed.

page 199 states that you can use combat maneuvers except for things like charge that have certain prerequisites

What would be the most powerful combination for a fighter that uses magic?

I cant really decide between multi fighter/wizard

Magi

or Elderich knight.

any advice what would be the best for a character that wants to be a main damage dealer, that wants to buff himself, and wants some control over the battlefield.

maybe im asking to much.

Ok If I do not have reach and I make a disarm,trip,sunder attemp on a AOO I then would get an AOO against myself.

And the AOO against me would happen when? After my attack? So If I succed in the trip I would not get an AOO but If i dont I get an aoo?

get where im going?

lol

Hello!

so, I got a couple of questions on Attacks of Opportunity.

I have a first lvl fighter using a reach weapon. If a enemy comes at me I get an AOO. I then decide to sunder his armor or trip him or disarm him.

Do I get an AOO against me if I do not have any improved feats for those actions?

thanks guys

Grick..

that is what I was saying also. At least someone else agrees with me lol

GENETICDRIFT!.. dude.. your killing me

ROFL I thought I had this all wrapped up and now you tell me that we are all wrong?

lol

Thank you for clearing up Adjacent. I kept thinking diagonal..
Sorry for being suborn to the people that tried to explain it to me before lol.

This is the same as it was in 3.5

Guess everything is now clear.

thanks

anyway you can give me a reference to show my DM that reach weapons do not use the conventional movement diagonals as 10 but as 5?

Thanks again guys. I really appreciate the help.

EDIT:

Thanks again. Ill go ahead and talk to the GM and REREAD those sections to be clear.

What do you mean each limb?

Claw attacks are natural attacks. Claw attacks you assume both hands are claws.

reach for natural claw attacks would allow both arms to use reach.
Not just one claw.

I can understand a tail attack, bite, ect

so if you put reach on claw attacks it would include the two hands/arms.

same should be for reach.. on normal attacking arms/hands in general.

So taking reach would allow you to reach with normal attacks with weapons.

.. maybe im crazy but this makes sense to me. then again i could be wrong

That reach template has been posted twice now.. yet you still cannot use it because it goes against the rule in pathfinder right?

What you are saying would not work. you would not get an AOO because you do not threaten Adjacent squares because you cannot attack Adjacent squares..

so if a guy comes at me adjacent i cant attack him and I dont get an aoo because I cant attack him. The best I can do is let him swing then drop my reach weapon and hit him with gauntlets.. or spike armor .. or something.

I wish it worked the way the reach template suggested. It then would work like the 3.5 variant rule. but as of now you would have to make this rule a house rule.

.. or am i wrong?

EDIT: to convince my dm of the rule I have to have a hard fact to go off of. not just some random guys quote. no offense, just letting ya know.

Ninja also.. if it the way you are saying.. why would they put cannot attack adjacent in reach weapon category?

Bigkilla is right..

Ninja the rule you are talking about was a 3.5 rule to clear s@*@ up..

So now.. as it turns out a dude can just move diagonl/adjacent against you
and not only can you not attack but you do not get a aoo..

.. lol. now i know what to do to piss off the dm when i see a enemy with a reach weapon.

Just get rid of the 1 rule and replace it with a more realistic rule. if you roll a 1 then roll a 1or2 after then that is a crit fail.

i dont understand you people using this 1 rule. your giving every character regardless of being a god/epic a 5% chance of being retarded.. S~@$ happens.. but really 5 percent? come on now..

lol

Thank you..

Adjacent: think the not attacking adjacent ridiculous. I thought this was fixed in 3.5? they didnt add in the common sense rule to pathfinder? Just allowing adjacent makes everything easyer.

So.. now if someone comes at me diagonally i cannot attack them and I get no AOO????!!!

5ft Rule: I can see how if you were attacking within 5 feet you would be at a disadvantage but having absolutely no way to attack at all? come on...

Hello, I am seeking some advice on the best way of going about
making a character that is efficient with a Compolsite longbow without taking any serious hits to my Two Handed Fighter build.

A lot of battles so far would be greatly enhanced if I had a better range alternative. We use some Re-train variant and as of now I am able to redo most of my feats to help me with this situation.

I am planning on doing a Crit. Build for my Fighter. Would taking a couple of minor range feats really hinder me in the future?

Looking for advice and some better/alternative route to follow.

Thank you

Lvl: 5
Stats: 20-16-14-10-12-10
Human
Two Handed Fighter Archtype
power attack, cleave, furious focus, weapon focus (greatsword), weapon specialization (greatsword)

Would it be stupid to skip furious focus and cleave exchange for point blank shot and rapid shot?

thanks

Hello! Thanks for stopping in guys. So I am playing in this new campaign on thur and I need to make a Char. I need something martial like a Barbarian, Monk, Fighter that is optimized well.

The guys that I play with Min/Max the s@@% out of their characters and I want something that can kinda keep up and do some damage.

We are starting at lvl 1 and plan to go untill epic, so if you can give me a 1-10 or 1-20 progression that would be great.

I have a 3.5 background so I'm not completely clueless but I have never played pathfinder before and I'm not sure of all the ins/outs of the system. I will be reading the book over the week to learn everything.

The Rules: 30pt Buy, Advanced Race, Ultimate Magic, Ultimate combat, Advanced Player, 2 Traits, 1 Campaign Trait
think that's it.

I would prefer to have no NEGATIVE stat just because im not sure how they roll play 7s or 8s.. I dont want to be a dumb idiot that cant talk properly lol

So far I have come up with a
Dual Talent(advanced raace) Human fighter
Stats: 20-16-14-10-13-10 OR Alternative 19-18-14-10-12-10 (4th lvl 1str)

Two Handed Weapon Archtype

Weapon: Nodachi

Traits: Two traits that give +1 Will, and A trait that gives +1 AC Armour

1st: Power Attack
Cleave
2nd Weapon focus
4th weapon special
???

I could play, but phoenix is a bit far?

how far out are we talking here?

bump

Thanks Heim, ill go ahead and check those places out as well.

51stAve is way way to far but I can check out Game Depot.

Ill maybe drop over there tomorrow.

Maybe Ill make a flyer and drop em off at these places

whatever works right ..

Thanks guys

Ey that's not to bad.. Its only like 15-20 minute drive. I Will go down there today and see whats up.

I have never had a bad DM's before now.. I have been lucky in my DnD life to be blessed with smart, fantastic storytellers. DM's that do the work and make you feel bad-ass, yet challenge you at every corner.

Those are the games I like.

Thanks for the help gunslingeraz.. I Aprecaite it. If you ever get out this way first round of beers is on me buddy.