Newmainium's page

Newmainium wrote:

Because of the insubstantial part,

So could they cast it and therefore become, vaporous and insubstantial to move?

Actually, he's right and it's my fault for only partially reading the spell description.

Windy Escapes mechanical effect is giving you DR. It doesn't actually make you incorporeal or ethereal or anything like that. That previous sentence is descriptive text, not actual mechanics.

So I think I would rule windy escape would just reduce the damage. You're still substantial enough to take damage (else if you were incorporeal or etheral non-magical attacks would completely pass through you causing no damage, no need for DR/magic).

Ahh yeah ok, that makes sense.

Claxon wrote:

If the target doesn't try to move itself (using a move action), Foot Stomp wont prevent it.

That's not true - there are more ways to move than using the move action, cf. the rules for the 5-foot-step.

Other actions including movement, like withdraw, charge, 5-foot-step, or another unMonk's Flying Kick; these would be prevented as well. Dito for involuntary movement - one foot is basically nailed down.

Now, there are no hard and fast rules for a situation like this, so we should probably go whith what makes the most sense. I'd give a target under blink an 80% chance to move away (per action), because that's the chance to "catch" the desired phase for your action. Gaseous Form and teleportation should work.

So it would prevent a 5-foot step.

If the spell being cast is not an immediate action though, it would still provoke an attack of opportunity...and therefore require a concentration check if they did not want to trigger the AoO?

Because of the insubstantial part,
So could they cast it and therefore become, vaporous and insubstantial to move?

So then if you foot stomp a mage, on their turn they can cast windy escape, without having to make a concentration check, since its an immediate action?

Does foot stomp prevent things like teleportation or other "non" physical ways of movement?
Blink, gaesous form etc?
And would a spellcaster have to pass a concentration check to cast as if they were grappled?

I appreciate all the responses. I definitely understand grappling much better.

That was very helpful, thank you.

For some reason I can't find a definitive answer on this...
How much damage would you do if you have someone grappled and choose to inflict "damage" ?
I am a level 8 unchained monk. So 1d10 damage with unarmed and strength bonus of 5.
Do you add bonus damage from things like amulet of mighty fists?
Or if you have other sources of bonus damage, like inspire courage for example?

Can I spend a ki point to make an extra attack?

A few other questions I couldn't find answers to...
Can I use power attack with this?
Do I have to make an attack roll? Or is the damage automatic?
Could I apply the affects of cournugan smash and hurtful?
If you have multiple attacks because of haste or high BAB, do you inflict multiple instances of damage?

If you have greater grapple, can you choose to inflict damage twice?
And could you instead, attempt to pin AND inflict damage with greater grapple?

The Bonebreaker feat, seems to say that you can also attempt a stunning fist when you apply damage?

Thank you for helping me clarify this..

Thanks everyone for clarifying this for me.
The last thing we are vague on is Caster Level.

Rule reads as:
"Caster Level for Weapons: The caster level of a weapon with a special ability is given in the item description. For an item with only an enhancement bonus and no other abilities, the caster level is three times the enhancement bonus. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met."

Is that referencing the level you need to be to use the item or make the item?
I'm confused because it doesnt list a CL in the construction requirements, and like most sections in the rulebook, the explanation is quite vague.

Just to clarify,

If I had a +1 suit of leather armor the cost would be 1160gp (10 for suit, 150 for msterwork, and 1000 for the +1)

Then if I added a special ability to it (that had a base cost of +1 bonus), would that add an additional 1000 gp OR does that make the item a +2 item as far as cost goes, making the price 4000 gp.

And if the above is correct,
If I had a +2 suit of armor and added the same +1 special ability, that means the price would skyrocket to 9000 gp....

Seems wrong to me that the same bonus adds exponentially more to the cost, without the ability also growing in strength...

OmniMage wrote:

Newmainium wrote:

Ok. So how much would a suit of +1 glamered leather armor cost? 4700 gp?

Looks like it costs 2700 gp to add. It doesn't follow the ability bonus rules. Its easy to forget this can happen. Most of the time, new abilities are made as +1, +2, +3, etc.

Consider it a steal. In the long run, enhancement bonuses grow exponentially in price.

Newmainium wrote:

Like glamered for instance, on the d20 site is only listed as a +2 special ability....

*scratches head*

I don't know where they got that idea from. I can't find a source.

Glamered is listed in the same table as +2 bonus armor special abilities if you were going to roll it up as random treasure. It is also labeled as 2,700gp on that table.

Ok so theoretically, you could have a +1 glamered suit of armor....it doesnt have to be +2.

The difference in cost would be the difference between a +1 and +2 suit of armor.

I think I am getting it.

Newmainium wrote:

So a suit of +1 leather armor with a +1 bonus would be 2000 gp?

No. A +1 armor with a +1 ability is priced as a +2 bonus. The price would 4000 gp (2 squared * 1000 gp).

*By the way, if you didn't know, magic weapons are twice as expensive as magic armor.

Right, but if the item is a +1 suit of armor, lets say leather, then its price is 1160 gp, no? And I thought a +1 bonus cost 1000 gp??

This seems overly confusing, and im sure its not...i just havnt got it yet..lol

Ok. So how much would a suit of +1 glamered leather armor cost? 4700 gp?

And based on the tables, it seems to me that certain abilities are only available on +1, +2, +3 ,+4 or +5 items....

Like glamered for instance, on the d20 site is only listed as a +2 special ability....

Ok, thank you.
We were way off. We were under the impression that if we found a "+1 sword" or "+1 armor" we were able to add a +1 special ability to it....

So if I find +1 leather armor and I want to add "advancing" special quality to it, how do I go about doing that?

Additionally, if I found a +2 sword, how do I make it a cruel sword as well?

Thanks again in advance.

So a suit of +1 leather armor with a +1 bonus would be 2000 gp?

This is a straight newb question:
(And I cant seem to find a basic answer anywhere).

If I find a suit of +1 leather armor, how do I go about determining its special ability?

Our entire group, including DM, is new...

And is it the same process for weapons?

What is meant by base price? Like +1 bonus compared to a gp value...

Brawler's Flurry is not "just Two Weapon Fighting", hence the additional language in the ability description. A brawler can flurry (as in "two weapon fight") with a single weapon if desired so long as the weapon is either a monk weapon or a weapon in the close weapons fighter weapon group. Want seven attacks with a seven-branched sword at brawler 16? Get proficiency and Bob's your uncle.

So if that's the case, what would be the penalties to hit using a 2H weapon?

But it doesnt specifically state double weapons...

Isaac Zephyr wrote:

Newmainium wrote:

Is it reasonable to say that with quick draw, you could use a full round attack to hit with your 2H, use a fee action to release your off hand, quickdraw free action to pull a second weapon and then make your iterative attacks with said off hand?

Obviously twf penalty would apply, but is that correct use of quick draw?

I mean... RAW yes? That's a lot of free actions though a DM would likely kibosh. (I also don't think you can free action quick draw and release your 2H weapon simultaneously.)

The Hinyasi can already use TWF's bonus attacks with a single weapon, so even 2H it would have as many attacks as the Brawler's Flurry anyway, there'd be little reason to do... What you're describing.

But Brawler's Flurry is just Two Weapon Fighting. I'm fairly certain the 2 handed weapon referred to here is in consideration of a double weapon being used.

I guess that makes sense.

Newmainium wrote:

Isaac Zephyr wrote:

It's just Brawler's Flurry.

Brawler's Flurry wrote:

Starting at 2nd level, a brawler can make a brawler’s flurry as a full-attack action. When doing so, a brawler has the Two-Weapon Fighting feat when attacking with any combination of unarmed strikes, weapons from the close fighter weapon group, or weapons with the “monk” special feature. She does not need to use two different weapons to use this ability.

A brawler applies her full Strength modifier to her damage rolls for all attacks made with brawler’s flurry, whether the attacks are made with an off-hand weapon or a weapon wielded in both hands. ...

I had totally mis-read that..wow.

Thanks for that.

it makes a difference. E.g., Power Attack.

So at level 8, with a full round attack, brawlers flurry and a 2H weapon, how many attacks would i get?

It's just Brawler's Flurry.

Brawler's Flurry wrote:

Starting at 2nd level, a brawler can make a brawler’s flurry as a full-attack action. When doing so, a brawler has the Two-Weapon Fighting feat when attacking with any combination of unarmed strikes, weapons from the close fighter weapon group, or weapons with the “monk” special feature. She does not need to use two different weapons to use this ability.

A brawler applies her full Strength modifier to her damage rolls for all attacks made with brawler’s flurry, whether the attacks are made with an off-hand weapon or a weapon wielded in both hands. ...

I had totally mis-read that..wow.

Newmainium wrote:

Is it reasonable to say that with quick draw, you could use a full round attack to hit with your 2H, use a fee action to release your off hand, quickdraw free action to pull a second weapon and then make your iterative attacks with said off hand?

Obviously twf penalty would apply, but is that correct use of quick draw?

I mean... RAW yes? That's a lot of free actions though a DM would likely kibosh. (I also don't think you can free action quick draw and release your 2H weapon simultaneously.)

The Hinyasi can already use TWF's bonus attacks with a single weapon, so even 2H it would have as many attacks as the Brawler's Flurry anyway, there'd be little reason to do... What you're describing.

But doesn't twf stipulate that you are using either a light or one handed weapon inyour off hand,, thats what the penalties are based on...so then you wouldn't be able to flurry with a 2H weapon?

Or does the flurry grant you the extra attacks with a 2H weapon as well and you take the -2 to hit for each additional attack?

Is it reasonable to say that with quick draw, you could use a full round attack to hit with your 2H, use a fee action to release your off hand, quickdraw free action to pull a second weapon and then make your iterative attacks with said off hand?
Obviously twf penalty would apply, but is that correct use of quick draw?

Thanks everyone for the great answers. This has been very helpful.

Newmainium wrote:

I just read the clustered shots feat, but dont really understand when its so beneficial.

If you use brawlers flurry, you can throw as many weapons in a full round as make melee attacks? And the clustered shots lets you add up all that damage and apply it to one target? Couldnt you do that anyways without the feat? Im slightly confused there...

Say a creature has DR 5/-. That would mean each attack you make against tge creature would lose 5 damage, si in the Brawler's 7 attacks, it would be equivalent to DR 35/-.

Clustered Shots counts all the hits as one attack when considering DR, so you're only losing 5 damage total, not 5 per hit.

As far as I could tell, the Hinyasi used the damage die of their unarmed strike for improvised, but their improvised don't get the qualities like bypassing DR or counting as magic. Thus the character needed Gloves of Improvised Might +5, and some way to bypass DR. The choices were Penetrating Strike for a 2H or melee build (not available for the Rogue as a fighter feat), or Clustered Shots fir a ranged build.

Oh wow, ok clustered shots is a great feat for throwers than.

Is there a similar feat for melee?
Looks like penetrating strike only applies to named DR, not untyped.

I ended up building 2 different Shikigami characters. A Makeshift Scrapper Rogue who used the 2H Vital Strike route, and a Brawler Hinyasi who used light thrown improvised with Clustered Shots.

They're both comparable in their own ways. The Rogue's massive single hit an mobility are huge, though in technicality the Brawler does have significantly more potential damage, and as a ranged character has the option of targeting multiple targets. (The Rogue can throw the 2H with 2H thrower, hiwever as a Str build, the Dex to attack while not terrible is less ideal than the maxed Str melee attack with more often than not flanking and sneak.)

All in all, both have their advantages depending on how you want to play the character.

I just read the clustered shots feat, but dont really understand when its so beneficial.

I've seen some rules disagreements over whether Hinyasi can even take advantage of Shikigami Style, since the replacement of improvised weapon damage with unarmed damage isn't optional, and Shikigami does nothing to boost the unarmed damage dice.

Yes I saw that too. But I kinda followed this logic:

I appreciate all the feed back from everyone. Lots to consider.

I guess the moral of the story is, all things considered, if you have to move and strike, 2H does more potential dmg, and if you use a full round attack, TWF has more potential damage output.
So why not take quickdraw, and be a "switch" hitter when situation requires it?

Being able to trade out damage die changes things. Most of the time using TWF, you have 1d6, not 2d8. The 2H weapon would also attack twice instead of Vital Strike, increasing the damage by 15.

TWF always does more damage, IF it hits. That's the problem though. You are taking a -2 to each attack, which lowers DPR by 10%. You are also comparing technically two feats (Two Weapon Fighting and Improved Two Weapon Fighting) to one feat (Vital Strike) without stating the major difference - The vital strike character moved his full speed, or can. The TWF didn't.

A normal build would look something like at level 8 (22 Str with magic items, +3 weapon for 2H weapon, +2 for TWF)
Butchering Axe (3d6) 2H weapon (Power Attack, Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Weapon Focus)
10.5 (average 3d6) + 9 Str + 9 Power Attack + 3 Magic Weapon = 31 damage per hit.

Gladius (Two Weapon Fighting, Improved TWF, Double Slice)
3.5 (average 1d6) + 6 Str + 2 Magic Weapon = 11 x 2 = 22 damage with both weapons.

Thank you for the response. You are right, you do get your move action still with the 2H. So all of the people that say 2H has more damage output aren't really giving the full story.

Can someone correct me if I am wrong, because everywhere I read that 2H damage far surpasses TWF, but that is not what I have experienced.

Brawler hinyasi level is 8. He has power attack, vital strike and furious focus and shikigami style.

At level 8 I have this:
Str=18, +4 mod

2H-improvised weapon- 1d10 (from himyasi brawler using unarmed damage) , enlarged from shikigami to 2d8.
Vital strike makes it 4d8 on a single attack. Bonuses to damage are 6(str x1.5) + 9 (PA)
That yields a max total damage of 47.

Flip side...TWF
Improvised weapon is 1d10, enlarged from shikigami to 2d8.
Brawlers flurry lets me make 4 total hits. Each at 2d8. Bonus damage from strength bonus and power attack on both main hand attacks is 10 each (4 str + 6 PA). Bonus to off hand is 7 each (4 str + 3 PA).
This yields a max total damage of 98.

Am I missing something?? Other than the slight penalties to hit with multiple attacks, the damage isn't even close.
This is only my second campaign, so I'm not 100% I'm doing that right but I think so.

I would love some advice on if this is correct and if there is anyway of boosting my 2H damage, that doesn't necessarily boost the twf at same time.
Thanks in advance.

if someone adjacent to me provokes an attack of opportunity, can I cast a touch spell and then touch him with it as part of that AOO?

Or would I already have had to cast the spell and be holding the charge when the AOO presents itself?

I want to be able to trip someone, have improved and greater trip, and then cast a touch spell and deliver it to them using spellstrike.

Newmainium wrote:

vhok wrote:

no the dice number before adding anything(the natural number) is what you threaten criticals with. the die itself must be inside the critical range before adding anything from bab, str, dex etc.

this is only for the first roll. as long as the confirmation roll hits its a crit, you do not need to roll the dice itself as another threat range. so add your str or dex+bab then it see if you hit and if u do its a crit

Right i get that. But only a natural 20 is an automatic hit.

So if i roll a natural 19 and the creature has an AC of 20, do i not add BAB, STR, etc. to my to hit roll first and then roll again to confirm critical?

You do!

So sequence would go:

Step 1 )check if a natural number in my threat range was rolled ( if 20 skip to step 3)

Step 2) add BAB, STR, etc. to see if total number meets or beats AC (if yes, go to step 3, if not then you miss entirely)

Step 3) roll again to confrim critical (at this point if you roll a natural 20 again its an auto crit), adding all bonuses and modifiers and if it meets or beats AC then a crit is scored. If not then a regular hit is scored.

Is that correct?

no the dice number before adding anything(the natural number) is what you threaten criticals with. the die itself must be inside the critical range before adding anything from bab, str, dex etc.

this is only for the first roll. as long as the confirmation roll hits its a crit, you do not need to roll the dice itself as another threat range. so add your str or dex+bab then it see if you hit and if u do its a crit

Right i get that. But only a natural 20 is an automatic hit.

Let clarify something just because it may not have been clear.

When you roll your attack rolls you add your d20 roll + str + bab + other modifiers as appropriate, that is what I'm talking about when I say your roll. I mean that total value.

When I say nat 20 I'm only referring to what you roll on the d20.

Slightly confused.

So if your threat range is 19-20 and you get a +2 on attack rolls and you roll a 17 +2=19, is that a threat?

Richard Leonhart wrote:

100% thread range, as there might just be that monster that I can only hit on a critical.

Umm... you are aware that you can miss, even if your die comes up with a critical threat number?

The only auto-hit (plus threaten) number on that d20 is a natural 20. If your +7 attack vs. AC 30 shows a 19, you missed - your keen scimitar won't help you a bit.

Right , so late game , wouldnt you be theoretically facing more enemies with AC higher than 20, therefore completely negating the need for a larger threat range? If a creature has AC 20 or higher, only a natural 20 is going to crit anyways.

What are peoples thoughts on that with the long game in mind? For exampleif you were going to spend a feat on weapon focus. You would want that to be aplicable early and late game right?

Can someone help with example 3 and 4 and 5? I understand example 1 and 2....i think lol:

Bucky the Orc AC = 17

Fighter Jim has threat range of 15-20 ×2
He has BAB +1, str mod +1 (+2 to hit).

Example 1
Fighter Jim rolls a natural 20. He threatens a critical. His check roll is 16 +2 = 18. Crit is confirmed and he rolls dmg twice.

Example 2
Fighter jim rolls natural 20. He threatens a critical. His check roll is 14 + 2 = 16. Crit is not confirmed. But since it was a natural 20, jim still hits and rolls damage dice once.

Example 3
Jim rolls an 18 + 2 = 20. What happens when a) his check roll is another 18 + 2 = 20? Or b) his check roll is 15 + 2 = 17? Is a roll of 20 , using the bonus to get there an auto hit?

Example 4
Jim rolls a 17 +2 = 19.
What happens if his check is 17 or under?

Example 5
Jim rolls a 15 to 17 (either natural or with his bonus) ? Does he miss entirely? Or does he still score a threat and roll to check?

Thanks for the help

fear always tells you what level it starts as in the ability. what monster specifically are you talking? google it and you'll find the ability explained. somewhere in there usually near the bottom is where all the abilities are spelled out.

Erinyes Devil

1) Fear has three stages. You start at the lowest (shaken) and go up to worse penalties (while taking previous penalties). Shaken is the lowest, Frightened is the middle, and Panicked is the end.

2) Needed to wield. A +5 Str bow can roll 1d8 +5. If you do not have +5 Str (20 str), you take a -2 to hit. This is why the Adaptive Quality is amazing. It fits the wielder, so you get your full bonus and don't have to worry about upgrading or taking penalties.

So you would deal 1d8 + 1d6 + 1 (magic) + 2 (Str), but you shoot at a -1 (-2 for a bow with a str rating too high and +1 for magic).

Magic weapons add +1 to hit and damage, not just to hit.

Amazing! that makes so much sense when explained that way... I am finding that the PRD has a lot of text that needs further explanation, especially to a newb.

anyways, thanks again!

We are in the 4th game of our first ever campaign (there are 6 of us, all new to pathfinder and D&D - we played mordheim mostly).

Two "issues" have come up and I can't seem to find the answers after searching the net and rule books for quite some time.

1. Fear states "Spells, magic items, and certain monsters can affect characters with fear. In most cases, the character makes a Will saving throw to resist this effect, and a failed roll means that the character is shaken, frightened, or panicked."

but my question is: how do you know which state you are put in? the monster's text just reads "fear (single target, DC 19)". So if I fail the first WILL save, which state of fear am I in?

Also, if you are in a locked room (like a cavern or something) and you are frightened...on your turn do you have to flee the furthest from the source of the fear or how exactly does fleeing work in a situation like that? would I be able to make a ranged attack after fleeing to a corner?

2. We were fighting an Erinyes Devil, and she dropped a +1 flaming composite longbow [+5 Str bonus].
Is the +5 str bonus the "str rating" needed to use the bow, (so you would need a +5 strength bonus to use the bow with proficiency) OR does the bow grant an additional +5 strength on top of strength bonus the character might already receive? And if this is the case, then how do you figure out the strength rating of a bow if it is not specifically stated? OR does the +5 Str bonus mean that you can only go up to a maximum of +5 str bonus that the character might possess? and again, if this is the case, where does the strength rating come from?

The PC has a strength bonus of +2. So in my mind this bow gets a +1 to hit, adds 1d6 points of fire damage and would deal +2 bonus damage from his strength up to a maximum of +5 (if he ever gets there)?

Thank you for your help!!!

Ohh ok i understand. Thank you so much for the clarification

So in my original example if i were to recieve a seaparate "+1 competence bonus to melee attack rolls" i would still only have the +3, not +4?

Or if the separate one gave me a +2 then it would negate the +1 thus creating an overall +4?

Does a "typed" bonus like "+1 luck bonus to attack rolls" stack with another typed bonus like " +1 competence bonus to attack rolls"
Thus creating a +2 bonus to attack rolls?

I have looked and googled everywhere. I cant find a clear answer to this.
I'de like to give a few examples:

Example 1:
Barbarian's rage ability grants a "+2 to melee attack rolls".

His Rage power " accurate stance" grants a "+1 competence bonus on melee attack rolls".

Do you get a +3 to melee attack rolls??

Example 2:
Half orc alternate racial trait "sacred tatoo" grants a "+1 luck bonus on all saving throws"

A barbarians rage power "superstition" says that " The barbarian gains a +2 competence bonus on saving throws made to resist spells"

Does a Half Orc barbarian with superstition activated get +3 to a saving throw to resist spells?

Thank you for any and all responses and answers...im quite new to pathfinder and have been unable to fully define what is a typed bonus, untyped bonus etc and how they all stack or dont stack together.