NathanE's page

Nualia is unable to cast Cat's Grace, as it is not a spell on her spell list. This can be easily rectified by giving her a Potion of Cat's Grace, but now there is a 2nd Level Spell slot open that needs to be filled.

Nor Fox's Cunning, apparently. I had never noticed that about clerics before!

As far as Nualia is concerned, the stats only include the stuff prepped "before combat", it doesn't include anything in the "during combat" section. Also, the stats have her wielding the bastard sword one handed and she makes a second attack with her free claw-hand, though I do believe her damage with the bastard sword should be 1d10+6 (+3 STR, +1 magic sword, +2 Fury of the Abyss); the +2 for the Ferocious strike is not included.

I have never been able to figure out how natural weapons + metal weapons work in combination so I tend to shy away from using them. Nualia's before combat buff also includes a Divine Favour, which adds another +1 to attack and damage.

Index cards work. Combat-related on the front, other things on the back. Write out different feat effects on attack/damage rolls as separate lines for E-Z Reference.

So far I have only read through the first chapter. Still a few chapters to go, and the characters in them are only going to get more complex stat-wise.

I have been waiting for this for quite a while, having played it through last year (and being the only PC to survive!). Picked it up a couple of days ago and looks great! I really like the layout.

Koruvus (p36) He has three arms and three weapons, but only using two-handed fighting as a feat instead of multiweapon fighting. So he gets only two attacks per round instead of all three? At any rate, his attacks should be longsword +4 (+2 BAB, +3 STR, +1 magic weapon, -2 multi), silver dagger +3 (+2 BAB, +3 STR, -2 multi), handaxe +4 (+2 BAB, +3STR, +1 masterwork, -2 multi). His stat block shows an attack modifier of +3 for the handaxe.

Gogmurt (p44) The spell flame blade creates a scimitar of fire that does fixed amount of damage. The attack bonus is correct (+3 BAB, -1 STR, +1 size), but the damage should read "1d8+2 OF fire", not "plus fire".

Warchief Ripnugget (p49) His short sword attack bonus is normally +9 (+5 BAB, +1 STR, +1 size, +1 magic weapon, +1 weapon focus) not +10 as stated, with damage of 1d4+4 (+1 STR, +1 magic weapon, +2 weapon spec) not 1d4+5 as stated. Of course Inspire Courage would account for the extra +1 to attack and damage, but this is not indicated as already being included in the stat block. This is not an errata per se, but the During Combat section could at least mention that her bardic perfomance enhancements were already included in Ripnugget's stat block.

Bruthazmus (p52) His gear shows a normal masterwork comp longbow, but his offense stats state he does 1d8+4 damage with his bow. His gear should indicate that his is a bow built for strength +4.

Nualia (pp61-62) The during combat section states that Fury of the Abyss, Divine Favour, Cat's Grace, Bull's Strength, and Shield of Faith bonuses are all included in her stat block. I disagree.

Her bastard sword when used two-handed has an attack bonus of +11 (+5 BAB, +3 STR, +1 magic weapon, +1 luck divine favour, +1 weapon focus). Her stat block states +10.

Her bastard sword when used two-handed does 1d10+8 damage (+4 STR-2H, +1 luck divine favour, +2 fury of abyss, +1 magic weapon). Her stat block states 1d10+4. Also, there should be another +2 damage with ferocious strike.

I would love to know if there is something I am missing! I am by no means a professional player or gamemaster and I am positive that the good folk at Paizo and here on the forums know more than I do about the rules.

Well I have asked my group to try and resolve these, with no one bothering to respond. Even in person, everyone deferred it to email and then nothing after that. It seems they do not want to be bothered to work on a system that seems inherently troublesome and that no-one will ever use again.

In the meantime I will avoid the problematic words and pretend they don't exist. If I could find some kind of errata, or if the messageboard search engine worked (stop equating "words" with "word"! They are not the same search criterion!) then I would care more. But now ... I just don't care what happens with the Words. Too much effort to try and make them work.

(The feel of the lack of polish and workability in this section of UM is what turned me off UC. Never even bothered to look at it.)

Nathan

The only Teleportation effect word that can possibly affect anyone else besides the caster is Dimensional Hop, and that only as an 6th level wordspell.

Remember, affecting more than one target with the Selected target word adds 3 levels to the wordspell as a whole. The teleportation effect words specify that the caster must be a target of the effect word. Ergo, affecting anyone else in addition to the caster is multiple targets; ergo, the wordspell level is three higher than the base effect word.

That means Dimensional Jump to teleport you and your party requires a level 8 spell slot. Dimensional Shift requires a 10th level spell slot - not going to happen.

You would be better off just buying a scroll of Teleport.

The differences between instantaneous and permanent durations for conjurations was covered in another post that I came across while trying to search for Word issues before I made my original post. Instantaneous conjurations create something, then the spell effect goes away while the thing it created stays and reacts normally in the world. So a wall of stone (or iron) will come into existence and stay. It cannot be dispelled because the creation magics are no longer there. A duration of permanent means it can be dispelled or disjuncted or otherwise cancelled through magical means. Blindness is a 2nd level spell with a permanent duration, so the blindness is continually caused by a magical effect occluding normal vision, not a destruction of the eyeballs themselves. Hence, it can be dispelled or negated, or even temporarily suspended, such as in an antimagic field.

Looking through the CRB, the evocation walls are also subject to spell resistance, but wall of ice specifically states it cannot be formed in a space already occupied by an object or creature. I suppose the damaging frigid air in the space left by a broken piece of the wall can be resisted, but will SR allow resistance to the slippery ice plane that can be formed?

@Sir Ophiuchus I believe Life Leech works as written. The purpose of Words is to be "unrefined" raw magic, as opposed to the more refined spells. Enervation is a refined spell, very specifically written with a duration of instantaneous to prevent dispel magic from negating it along with the restriction that it is a single target that still has to be hit with a ray. Life Leech can be boosted to hit multiple targets as a 7th level Word. It can also be boosted to give permanent negative levels, but then those, too, can be easily removed with the 4th level word Purify. Though, as an aside, it can be more powerful than Energy Drain, in that it does not allow a saving throw to throw off the negative levels. If the target fails it's initial save at casting, those levels are automagically permanent, unlike Energy Drain.

@hogarth I agree with the lack of 7th level divine effect words. Time to start making up combos to use up those slots! Look at Servitor 6 + Perfect Form, perhaps... I agree with your doubts that the word list will be expanded. It's a great idea that needs more testing, I think. I feel that it is as raw and unrefined as the Words themselves are supposed to be!

@Caedwyr I don't have a problem with a duration of instantaneous for a conjuration(creation) spell. The Wall Words seem to be picked from the four major elements (earth, air, fire, water) with the classic blade (from the elemental plane of blades?? :) thrown in for the divines. Those Words bring forth a bit of that elemental plane, then the magic ends and those materials return from whence they came. I get that for the evocations, though the conjurations are a bit of a knot.

My group and I haven't played over these holidays but we are resuming tomorrow. I'll ask the group for input and see what we come up with.

Things I have learned about the Words of Power system described in the Ultimate Magic playbook. (More accurately: errors, discrepancies, and problems I have encountered)

The examples on page 165 describe two wordspells.

1) The burst fire blast is a nice example, though for a true copy of the mighty fireball spell, you need to add the lengthy meta word to it. Then you will have a long range, 20'R burst fireball doing max 10d10 damage. A sixth level sorcerer could cast this wordspell only once. Thereafter, it would be limited to medium range.

2) Selected ice blast life leech will not actually give negative levels. The entire word would be limited to an instantaneous duration, which means the negative levels will come and go in the blink of an eye. Utterly useless addition to an otherwise fine cold word.

The selected target word's boost effect is completely understandable. Basically, it adds "mass-" to the wordspell's effects. Bull Strength, level 2 word. Mass Bull Strength, level 5 word. OK, cool.

The healing words exchange healing amount for range. They do d6 base but add close range instead of touch range. OK, cool. That seems fair. Though they stop at level 4 effect, which seems out of place. No high level healing or harming effects.

Purify is basically Remove Curse, Remove Disease, and Neutralize Poison all rolled into one spell with the side effect of not being a guaranteed cure, even for a disease or poison. Though it does remove a permanent negative level without the 1 week rest and 1000gp of diamond dust required. Oh, and a standard action casting time. Wow. Why do clerics now ever used the "refined and evolved" Restoration spell if it sucks so bad compared to the Purify word of power? Goodbye scrolls of Restoration - hello scrolls of Purify. Until you need to repair ability drain. Then a wordcaster is absolutely screwed.

I have already tried to start a thread on the valueless Sense Hidden word. A see invisible up to 10' (use a meta word to see up to 20'. But keep in mind that at this point you have a total of 2 meta words per day.) to a spellcaster is utterly useless, especially since you have to end the spell (its duration is concentration, after all) in order to cast another wordspell, but now you can't see your target again so all your other selected target effect words or once again useless.

There are no good dispelling words. I suppose this could be as designed. Suppress requires knowing the specific spell effect in the first place, and only on a willing target, and only for a temporary time. Yes, I know it can be boosted, but remember that at that effect level, the caster will have all of 2 meta words available.

The description of ball lightning runs counter to the description of the selected target word. Try it yourself and see if you can reconcile the opposing descriptions of a boosted selected and the description of multi-targeting ball lightning. Also, keep in mind that a boosted selected ball lightning is a level 8 word, which is far more limiting than that other level 8 electric word, Thunder Strike. It doesn't make sense.

Force Bolt is not a magic missile. First, it's a level 2 effect, and second, it requires a touch attack to hit, and third, it can do more damage at low levels but hits its limit at level 5 (doing 5d4 (5-20), while magic missile is doing 3d4+3 (6-15)). Mass force bolt is a 5th level spell, and is pretty lame compared to Force Blast, which has no limit to target word.

Servitor words trade a shorter casting time (1 standard action!) for the ability to summon multiples or a lower level monster. Summon Monster 3, a 3rd level spell, can summon d4+1 1st level monsters, but the equivalent effect word is a boosted servitor 1, which is a 4th level wordspell.

I have seen other mentions of the Decelerate or Accelerate power words. Yes. They are pretty costly in any mass kind of form. The actual Haste spell is level 3, and the closest that Accelerate can do to mimic the effects is as a level 5 twice-boosted wordspell, and that will only allow an extra attack instead of an extra move, no bonus to AC, no bonus to initiative, no bonus to reflex saves. All for two meta words used in one wordspell.

Teleportation words. Ugh. Dimensional Hop yourself as a 3rd level spell. Hop yourself and others as a 6th level spell, and only within close range (55' at 12th level caster) and only within line of sight. Yay. Dimensional Jump yourself as a 5th level spell, but only to a place you have been to before, which is not too bad. Jump yourself and others as an 8th level spell!

Oh, and only clerics can Dimensional Shift others along with themselves. Sorcerers/Wizards can only shift themselves, not others; to do so would require a level 10 spell.

How is Ice Wall subject to spell resistance? OK it's an evocation, it evokes, and usually evoking evokes spell resistance. But this is a physical wall of ice. So SR will allow someone to just walk through it, even though the ice has hit points? Stone Wall is a creation spell, but it also is subject to spell resistance. So how does that work?

All in all, I do enjoy my wordcasting stormborn sorcerer. I just wish it didn't feel like a lot of the words and their target resitriction weren't tested at all. I get the feeling that the entire wordcasting system changed halfway through playtesting and a lot of spell descriptions didn't get updated along the way.

I tried looking for an errata for Ultimate Magic, but I couldn't find one. I am hoping Words can be cleaned up because they are enjoyable, and I like the faux latin I made up for the Thassilonian words I use with my character.

Please fix them! Otherwise I will have to fix them with my GM. So any input is appreciated.

The cone can be boosted up to 40 ft. The range isn't that bad considering the iconic adventure takes place in cramped quarters.

Selected states that with a spell that deals energy damage there is only a touch attack or ranged touch attack (decided when the spell is cast). Also it can be boosted to chain to multiple targets (like chain lightning).

Hey Kierato, thanks for your reply.

Compare the level of boost required for a 4th level cone (level 4) and the actual see invisible spell. Sure a 40' cone 4th level wordspell is fine in cramped quarters, but not fine outdoors. It's a severe limitation. Conversely, the Unseen words work very similarly to the actual invisibility spells. 2nd level word effect, and boosted for a 4th level word effect that doesn't expire upon attack, a la greater invisibility.

I already pointed out how the selected target word works in my original post. Thank you for summing it up. But my original question is still unanswered - what point is there in a word effect description that implies multiple targets, when the selected target word is specific to only one target? A boosted selected increases the entire wordspell by three levels, making it a level 8 wordspell, and then that boosted targeting overrides the effect's descriptions regarding multiple targets.

I believe that Sense Hidden should be limited to target personal, boost to selected for +1 level. That would mean see invisibility at 2nd level wordspell, and a third level wordspell to be able to cast in on someone else.

I also believe that the ball lightning effect word's description should explain how it is supposed to work. It is completely incompatible with it's target word restriction.

It feels like a lot of things with words of power slipped through the playtesting cracks. The more I am playing it, the more I am wishing I had made a standard spellcasting sorcerer, and that feeling sucks.

Hey all,

Hoping someone can help me make sense of these two words...

Sense Hidden seems pretty useless. By default, it allows the caster to see invisible critters only up to 10' away in a cone. So now, facing matters. Since it's a second level word effect, the cone target can be boosted, improving the caster's ability to detect invisible in a 20 cone only! Oh, and boosting the effect to a level 6 word simulates True Seeing, but again, only in a 10' cone.

Whoop. Am I missing something, or is it kinda useless? Now a "personal" target word I can understand, then it would work just like See Invisible. But ... "cone"??

for the other word that has me completely baffled - Ball Lightning. It has a target restriction of "selected", which reduces this spell to either a ray with saving throw and SR, or a melee touch with saving throw and SR. Also, the word's description implies that more than one target can be selected ("...maximum 15d8 to one target + 1/2 that damage to any other targets included in the effect.") But the "selected" target restriction actually restricts this word to a SINGLE target! Sure, you can boost the target word by adding three levels to the wordspell, so now it's an 8th level wordspell that can affect only targets no more than 30' apart. Quite inferior to the actual 8th level electricity effect word Thunder Strike.

So, in summary, I can't figure out these two words. Any other ideas, opinions, or direction to a previous forum discussion would help. (And yes, I did do a lot of searching before posting!)

Nathan

thank you everyone. it mostly answered what I was looking for. I will also bring up the rhino charge feat to my dm.

Oh, no. I don't even know what that is, and now you require of me to find out???

I don't know if anything has been resolved. Let's say a fighter and wizard are standing side by side and the fighter readies to whack the wizard if he tries to cast a spell. The wizard tries anyway.

1) If Wizzy casts defensively, then only the readied action will occur. OK.

2) If Wizzy casts normally, Fitty Cent's readied action goes off. Wizzy's spell is dirupted. So no more AoO?

3) If Fitty Cent's readied action misses (or Wizzy makes the concentration), then Fitty still gets the AoO, right?

OK. Makes sense so far. I'm with those about the 5' step rule - it's during your actions for the round, not during any particular action.

Now the partial charge action seems sensible to me, so long as the one readying the partial charge has not done any movement whatsoever for their move or free actions before the ready. But, if I allow this, I can foresee the monk anti-close-range tactic:

Monk: I move to 30' away from Wizzy and ready to charge once he starts casting.

Wizzy: Oh, dearie me, look at that monk looking all fierce. Eat Close Range Spell Death! First I'll take my move to move to 40' away, which is the range of my spell. <begins casting a close range spell>

Monk: Partial Charge Attack! I move the 40' and whack him with a Vital Strike Punch To The Nose

Wizzy: ooowwwwww but i took Combat Casting even though everyone else laughed at me, so I keep my concentration! Hah!

Monk: I take the Attack of Opportunity with a Vital Strike Punch To The Nose. Again.

Wizzy: I think I'll just lie down here for a bit....

The monk's base speed bonus progresses faster than a spell's Close Range distance does, which means a Monk is ALWAYS within one move action of any close range spell. This is an exception - one of the big things about the monk class is the base speed increases.

Now I could just avoid this whole issue by not allowing a Ready Partial Charge. Which, in retrospect, I should have just changed to a hold action. :-/

Dragonchess Player wrote:

I'd say: "Yes, but only if you've readied an action before being transported."

Or if you come out of delay right after being transported.

Much preferable to a ready, which would trigger and act BEFORE the DD happened! Remember, ready is to preempt an action, hold to post-empt.

But, you can't hold if you already spent a move to get beside your wizard and put your hand on his shoulder. You can't even ready because that would mean acting before transportation. Your turn is basically done.

The wizard would hold until everyone else gets into contact, then the wizard goes in initiative, casts the spell, then loses his move action (why? The spell doesn't say why, just forces a loss of a move action through RAW fiat). The others who were transported will have to wait until their initiative comes around again before they can act. This is assuming a time-sensitive casting (ie RETREAT!!!). If time is not an issue, everyone else can just move, wizard holds, everyone else holds, wizard casts, then everyone else un-holds and acts.

As to positioning in the destination, I would rule that it is the same, although the facing is up to the wizard when he casts the spell. If everyone is in a short line going Ftr - Wiz - Clr, then they will end up in the same order, in a line, but could be facing East instead of North. Whether or not there is room is up the reliability in the wizard who is casting the spell, and the reality of non-shifting rooms or hallways (which is not 100% guaranteed reality).

right that's where my second question comes in though your answer suggests it works. in this case my monk has a 60 foot move. if I stand 30 say from an enemy spell caster and say if he casts I move next to them.

as the ready I move up, he then actually starts to cast triggering an aoo. I then trip him.

It's easier to make a concentration check from a trip (vigorous motion?) than from damage, as long as you do more than 5 damage on average and can hit a wizardly AC.

I am more concerned with a readied action still going off despite casting defensively. The defense casting would only cancel the AoO, but not the ready!

I actually ran into this last night with an invisible Will-o-wisp hovering beside the sorceress, completely undetected, with a readied action to zap her once she cast a spell. She said she was casting defensively (the circumstances were very plausible to suddenly decide to do that). So, no AoO, but the ready would still occur, and ended up disrupting her spell.

Shieldknight wrote:

And a hex is 1,122 sq.mi.

o.O Was that a typo? I think I recall James or others saying that a hex was a little over 100 sq. miles

Yes, that is a typo. The area of the inscribed circle, with a diameter of 12 miles (which is the distance of Kingmaker hexes, edge to edge), is 113 sq. mi. Thus, the area of the hex would be just a bit greater than that.

N8

Edit: Not to take completely take apart ShieldKnight, but the AP specifies that each block is 750 feet per side, giving the entire grid of 36 blocks (plus another "block" on each side for roads and alleys and such) an area of 1 sq. mi. So, yes, 12 in a row will completely cover a hex from edge to edge. I do not have a map of Absalom (where'd you get that, btw??) but 8 x 10 would be the majority of a hex in Kingmaker.