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This is a super intimidating thread to comment in, but I'm going to say why I'm excited for this given Jason's posts and after having read through all the (currently 1435 - you guys are passionate!) comments.

A lot of the debate back and forth seems to hinge on some core concepts (no pun intended) that people have different opinions over (what is core, what are goblins like, why are problem players problem players?, racial alignment: good or bad?), and so it seems like adding to those particular debates is moot at this point. I see the reasoning for both sides, and I know where I fall along the spectrum.

However, there was one thread that I wanted to pull out and respond to, because it has a bearing on why I'm very excited for this change.

Given what Jason has said about there being some kind of PF1 AP stuff to do with goblins coming up (and you know, being the last AP it's going to be a big epic affair), and then what he's said about the start/continuation of a change in views about goblins going into PF2E, I can't think of a better narrative time to be a goblin PC. I think it would feel very stunted to me if all this change in how goblins are seen came into PF2E, and then we had to wait however many months to explore that as a goblin character in a further book. Similarly, I think it would feel jarring for whatever change is coming to hit after PF2E dropped. Narratively, this seems like the best time to introduce whatever they have planned, and the best time for goblin PCs to be released into PF2E.

This won't change any opinions, nor will it allay some of the fears shown in this thread (nor is it related to many of them), but if goblins are going to begin the journey from whatever part of the pests/mischief/murderers line you fall on, to being more widely accepted as adventurers/good guys in the world (which is a cool path that I think will be fascinating to explore), I can't think of a better time than this one.

I'm massively excited for this, am happy Paizo is looking to grow and evolve the setting (one thing that really gives a cool sense of history and development to the world), and I hope everyone can treat people nicely and fairly in the discussions.

(comments up to 1453, you all don't hang around, huh)


Awesome, that's good to hear about the RotRL fights, I was wondering if I'd have to do any in depth tinkering or if I could take/add monsters to the fight.


Thanks everyone, this is all great stuff.

avr - That's good advice! I'll keep those on the low side.

SmiloDan - Sorry there's not more info on the healer/non-monk dps, those people are still working through their character options I think. I'm not sure a tanky healer has been considered though, so I'll throw that his way.

Wheldrake - Again, good stuff, ty. Glad to hear about RotR design first hand. I will aim to adapt as necessary.


Hi all. I posted here a while ago about dming my first campaign, got some great advice and it went great, so thank you!

I'm starting another campaign at the moment, and the current party make up will have a Swashbuckler as a Dex-based tank/front liner (with a healer, monk and a magic based dps as the other members).

The questions I have as a still inexperienced dm are:

1) can swash work as a dex based tank? None of our group is worried about it being inefficient, or suboptimal, we're not big min maxxers, just if it is possible.

2) if it's not generally plausible (or even if it is) what changes would you consider making to make things playable. Again, it's a casual group right now, so I'd rather adjust things a little to make it work than get people to rethink characters.

3) I was going to do a couple of rules-teaching missions for our new players, then go into Rise of the Runelords. Would this party make up work with this campaign? Similarly are there any campaigns (maybe more rp/puzzle/exploration focus) that you'd recommend for this kind of party?

Any adjustments or ideas are welcome, we're not a very serious group - but I would like to keep the characters people would like to play as much as possible


Thanks for the excellent advice everyone! I'll definitely sketch up some maps where necessary.

Double thanks for Scythia for the detail about ability things, I'll take that into consideration. Doubly excited for my first session now, thank you!


That's cool, thanks! I'll definitely bear that in mind - but I was thinking more about doing away with it altogether. So having it all in-head, if that makes sense. No moving of pieces, physical or otherwise, no measuring. Just all vocal and imagination, with the DM keeping overall track of things.

EDIT: I still don't know if I'm explaining this well, so I guess a better question would be: if you were going to run a session with no physical or digital accessories - only character sheets, dice and your voice, how would you adjust it?


I'm pretty much brand new to Pathfinder (played a few sessions a couple of years ago), and I'm excited to get started with some friends thanks to the humble bundle.

Both the times I've played previously we've had a fairly experienced DM, and we've played without any kind of physical map/tokens/minis for combat or encounters, and now I'm getting a group together and looking to DM, I would like to do that style of play myself.

I understand that a lot of what I'm about to ask falls under the answers "it'll get easier with experience" or "house rules", but I was wondering if anyone had any tips or hints for a beginner DMing a mapless game, any adjustments you make to quests or campaigns that have maps, or any ways you'd suggest practicing/building up to a mapless play style.

I know this is a really nebulous question, but thanks in advance for any advice you might have


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As basically a new Pathfinder player (played a session once years ago, using the HB Bundle to get into it more), I cannot believe the amount of people throwing really negative comments around about this. Given the incredible deal we got through the HB, and the amount of people going for it, stuff like this was going to happen, and we'll all get our PDFs in time.

Thank you IT for the amazing work you're doing, and thank you Paizo for the amazing bundle itself! Excited to get started when things calm down.