Mugmuff Darktalon's page

OK, I think I know what you're after now, though I think a +5 to avoid being snuck up on (eyes of the eagle) is pretty universably applicable.

Warrior-types who hate being scared might like the headband of unshakeable resolve. 3/day immediate action to reduce a fear effect on you, and the item also carries a +2 Wis bonus so it doesn't interfere with the big six too badly.

A ring of evasion does what it says on the tin.

The bastion crown helps with death effects and tricky rogues.

Ring of Evasion is a trap: "Evasion can be used only if the rogue is wearing light armor or no armor."

The whole reason it exists in the playtest is because the Paizo devs, who go to conventions and see a lot of PFS being played, don't like CLW wand spamming. They think the people who do that are playing the game wrong, so they've crafted a ham-fisted "fix" that causes other problems (read: healing in general, a well-recognized problem with the current playtest). This "problem" has much better solutions on the wand side of the equation that don't break other parts of the game.

This is a great example of how "problems" in PFS can have a huge effect on those of us that play home games.

-Skeld

The problem in this example are the Devs, not the PFS players.

Having a limit on consumable magic items its a positive.

That's an assertation. I've yet to see the proof.

I strongly disagree that Resonance serves no purpose. IMO there is a definite problem with spammable low level consumables ie wands and potions etc in 3.P.

What's the problem?

Get rid of it. Its a solution to no known problem.

If you absolutely have to have it, don't tie it to a specific stat. Have it either purely level dependant, or level + primary stat.

Cheap unlimited healing for everyone is going away, and it needs to,

Why is this?

Does it improve the game?

Frankly, folks that want to be able to grab whatever and cobble a character together by nabbing any ability from here and there are probably better served by playing GURPS anyways.

So, taking away features from one edition to the next, and if you don't like it, there's the door?

Sparkling strategy.

Considering roleplayers, I'm not feeling the prevalence of low social stats is a stretch.

Shinobikazuma wrote:

BigNorseWolf wrote:

1st level

burning disarm: a disarmed bad guy is a MUCH less dangerous bad guy

You'll need the appropriate source book for this spell to be legal. And I'd recommend preparing a single CLW in case of emergency.

Or, you can play with a DM who doesn't care that you don't have the book since you are not made of money. If you are in a group that only has 3 players then you can just refuse to play, hence making it so the game cannot proceed unless you are able to use your character as built with supplements you do not have.

Or, in this hypothetical, you could stop being a dick.

I think we're passing the point of reasonable doubt here. Yes. The potential for abuse of chemical weapons is insane. Discouraging Asaad and the next generation of Asaads from doing it again is worth the cost of a few missles that we've already bought anyway.

Estimated number of humans killed during the Syrian civil war: 100,000

Intervening in Syria because they've used the wrong kind of weapons to kill 1% of their victims seems obtuse in the extreme.

Wow. My melee focused Summoner us really way behind the curve. I use to think it was nicely done but I know better now.

Well at least I know my Eidolon is tearing tuff to shreds.

Yeah, never mind the fun you're having.

Know this.

OTHER PEOPLE ARE HAVING MOAR.

Lormyr wrote:

I think it is mostly us old pathfinders who had a massive physical collection prior to joining PFS who are feeling major "d'oh!". Yeah the PDFs are not expensive, but the taste of re-purchasing all your materials for a noteworthy convenience in PFS play is somewhat bitter.

I can sympathize with the "d'oh!" feeling. Even so, it's like if you had custom or otherwise non-regulation sports gear that you used in the park with your buddies and then wanted to join some sort of league; sucks that you would need to buy the same gear in different form, but it's not reasonable to expect instead that the league should change its rules to accommodate you. If you want to benefit from all the perks of organized play (sports or PFS), such as a player supply, venue availability, etc; then it's only fair to play by its rules.

Its actually nearer to "you've bought the correct gear, but from the wrong outlet"

Which I've seen happen at several sports clubs, but never ones I've wanted to become a member of...

With that, let them play Bonekeep or The Waking Rune, and then see if "playing for fun" is "playing for fun"

Roleplayers trying to out-macho other roleplayers.

Awesome.

FallofCamelot wrote:

It was Shadowcon in London.

shadowcon is a non residential con, and is 2 slots each day.

the organiser Terry T set up all the games and tables on warhorn, so there was no need to bring 12 characters.

Doesn't change the fact that there is no value gained from these rules (from the player's point of view) and the only people they penalise are those who take care to follow them.

Cheaters are still going to cheat, because they're cheats.

Played this as the final adventure for my 12th level character - the Harpy fight was a masive struggle - took some exceptional play fromthe druid to turn things around while everyone else was fascinated, unconscious or walled up.

We crushed the final encounter, but that's the way it goes... ("Right, that was too close, we *prepare* this time").

That fifth star is long overdue.

I played at that 2nd table Dragnmoon talked about all those years ago and it was great! Yeah, Rob Silk is that good! :-)

Just need to make a special mention his performance at last year's PaizoCon UK as Drandle Dreng. It was amazing. I've heard rumors that he'll be cosplaying Chief Gutwad at PaizoCon UK 2014!

I always thought Dreng *was* modelled on Rob... :-)

Crafting = bad idea.

Just waiting for the new Silver Crusade missions: "Town X has been tainted by evil. I invoke Exterminatus."

The trouble with the Silver Crusade is that in older scenarios you play Andoran, and they like to send you off to kill people with no explanation.

Actually that's the trouble with all the new factions.

I think this is overstated a little, I played an Andoran through to Seeker level, and only had one murder mission, I may have doged a few, but I'm not sure there are that many.

Hugo Rune wrote:

I've had a few campaigns end up with the forces of good bickering amongst themselves on the best way to comabt the growing evil.

Dragonlance, the war of the lance.

Home of some of the most spectacularly stupid NPCs in gaming history, it has to be said.

Funky Badger wrote:

KestlerGunner wrote:

Which is why 80% of all new characters I've seen in PFS are now either Aasimar or Tieflings.

I've seen 1 aasimar. A few more teiflings, but still mostly humans...

You might have seen my human. (Scion of Humanity) and I wouldn't tell you I'm an Aasimar at the game table. I role play my Aasimar as one who doesn't want to be revealed as an Aasimar. Others role-play them as ones who don't even know that they are.

So, are you sure that 'human' going along with you, was a 'human'? :D GL

I make a point of tipping acid over all new travelling companions, "just to be sure".

Self respect?

4) You should check out the message boards, they're full of good ideas.

Didn't know about vanish at the time. I though vanish was the lvl 20 ablility. I just was wondering if there where rules on that or not. I am of the camp that you should never kill a player without giving them some chance to survive it (they are the heroes of the story after all.)

Fortified Armour Training is your friend.

Guidance.
Guidance.
Guidance.

Seems that you can ready for:

"When I see him casting spell"

But not for:

"When I am targetted by a spell"

Mithril?

MITHRIL?

Deserves to be hunted down by the Order of the Scourge for such blasphemy.

Making Hellknight armour yourself?

EVEN MORE BLASPHEMY!

BURN THE HERETIC!

Smart play trumps mechanical choices every time. I think 1 or maybe 2 out of 9 characters I've got have 10+ CON.

Always character concept first, then see if/how it can be made to work.

Overall I don't think any available skill, feat, ability or weapon should be considered dishonorable always, everywhere for everyone. It ought to depend upon the specific circumstances when the action is taken.

Thus totally missing the point of what a code of honour is.

How about let them decide what to get for themselves?

Why do so many people put up with dreadful players/GMs?

Ilja talk sense... :-)

Patrick Harris @ SD wrote:

If that's the resolution, it's going to present problems.

On the other hand, it would help to take away the incentive to build a super-powered PC which strips the fun of his tablemates away.

There are several ways to deal with dick-players (as it were) - adding rules is not one of them.

I ran a FtF game last weekend with a group of PFS newbs. One guy was fully ready to join Sczarni... until he met Madame La BDSM and fell in love. (While his companions dealt with the scenario challenge at that point, he was arranging a post-scenario rendezvous... would have happened if the character hadn't died.)

Still could, actually...

Funky Badger wrote:

Ilja wrote:

Well, now I'm more talking about builds that are put forward as decently optimized in the forums. We often use far-less optimized characters and with much weirder stat arrays (had an Int 16 fighter/ranger in the last game, the one where the summoner retired), but when looking at class balance etc it's more useful to look at the builds that are hailed as good and competitive builds rather than the "s%&&s & giggles" builds.

Down with this kind of thing. I can think of little more depressing than this kind of talk.

The thing is, many people LIKE optimizing and like playing with super-optimized characters against super-optimized encounters. Not to put words in anyone's mouth, but I've gotten the impression that Ashiel's group likes to play that way (looking at ze's demon encounter and listed characters).

For those groups, balance with optimized characters is important and ultimately, a lot of class balancing need to be aimed at that group.

Everyone else has different levels of optimization, and it's very very hard to make a system that is equally balanced regardless of optimization amount without making the game boring or the choices of powers feel non-consequential.

In groups where players don't optimize, there is often rather a social contract that if one character is severely outperforming the others, that character has to be toned down a bit either in actual power or in play style.

For groups that don't optimize much at all, what's needed when it comes to balance is just that regardless of how you build you should be capable of beating the intended CR's. And I think it's very hard not to be able to beat the standard assumptions of the game unless you're either very bad tactically or have a severely gimped character. Look at the iconics - people have taken those through adventure paths, and they really blow from an optimization viewpoint (TWF fighter with longsword/shortsword is pretty horrendous).

So ultimately, when discussing class...

Agree with everything you say.

The biggest downside of *waves hands* all this internet connectivity-ness stuff is that now all games are connected. Which means the excesses of outlying groups become critical for balancing purposes, leading to rules designed to reign them in being applied to everyone.

Dictatorship of the minority. I'm sure there are some real-world examples that could be furnished :-)

Kerney wrote:

It is mostly buffs. Because of that, in my experience, summoners tend to have something like a 15-17 cha at first level. In that frees up points for other things, like making your summoner either skilled or somewhat effective in combat in such a way that works well with the eidolon.

But doing that means you're less effective compared to a typical 18 Cha 1st level bard when you do anything involving saves.

Most summoner builds I see start with 18 cha, except synthesists who tend to start with 20. Since most summoners tend to be half-elves, gnomes or humans, their racial is usually put into Cha. The exception is charging summoners mounted on their eidolons, who tend to have lower Cha to allow for more strength, but those don't seem to be the norm.

Or halfling outrider summoners, multi-classed with fighter. What?

:-)

beej67 wrote:

The synthesist summoner with 3 dump stats is verifiably broken.

If that is the yard stick, Fighters are broken as well.

Fighters can't get Pounce, Evasion, 40ft movement, +6 NA, 3 attacks per round and Darkvision at 2nd level.

We've been through this before.

Get shot of her.

Funky Badger wrote:

Which all require more books/understanding etc.

Walk, then run, isn't it?

Sometimes you have to run before you walk.

That's deep, man.

Adamantine Dragon wrote:

Arssanguinus wrote:

You wouldn't know it was invisibility. Until the third round. Just that there was a magical effect somewhere in the room.

I'm a guard. The first thing I do is make sure there is no magic in the damn room. So if some idiot thinks being invisible will make them "invisible" I can spot an aura and know "hey, someone's in the room."

Understand?

What, you think magical items just lay around all over the place?

"Hey, Joe, there's some magic aura in here."
"No worries, it's probably just something Merlin dropped."
"Yeah, he's always dropping magic stuff all over the place."
"Really annoying. Makes me keep thinking there's someone invisible in the dang room."

How many guards are capable of spamming Detect Magic?

All really good guards take a level of Diviner.

Eventually, I got sick of players deliberately killing themselves so they could come back with some absurd build deliberately minmaxed to peak at their current level or just because their attention span was too short for them to bother playing a single character for more than a few levels before getting distracted by some other shiny feat or something. So I brought back the oldest rule in the book:

Get better players.

I imagine that people enjoy evil PCs for all sorts of reasons. Could be like Rynjin said, it's a game and a chance to explore completely different ideals. Or, like my experience almost invariably suggests - it's easier: you get to score more loot (even murder to get it), ignore shackles of morality, and pursue whatever you want, regardless of the little puppies the GM throws in your path (screw it - I run it over!).

I imagine its mostly because they're 15 years old.

If there's a Paladin in the party, I'm not.

Seriously, I'll find another game.

The Paladin won't like me, I won't like the Paladin. There's <no point to trying to run a game with me _and_ someone playing one of those.

Am I a pyromaniac murder-hobo? No.

But I also don't have any problem selling sentients to mind flayers, if the price is right. I manufacture and distribute cripplingly-addictive substances. I smuggle. I don't pay taxes. Yes, that is poison on my knife. Etc.

At my very BEST I'm only antiheroic.

Most of my groups know and accept this, so I don't get faced with playing with Paladins often...

Try playing a Good character once in a while, you may even enjoy it.

Quote:

Is Coup De Gras an Evil act?

No.

Murdering someone is an Evil act. There is a difference.

This.

In the heat of battle, a coup de grace would be alright.

In cold blood - i.e. out of combat rounds, not so much...

Berdache wrote:

Base (10) + 4 (Mage Armour) + 4 (Shield) + 1 (Dodge) + 5 (CHR from Oracle of Law) + 4 Natural (Eidolon) + 2 Def (Shield of Faith) = AC 30

and that without Expertise and partial defence and other evolutions

Ah, so you took the very meh Lore Mystery (for a Fighty-type character at least) and wasted a feat on Dodge. Fair enough.

Or, in other words, you were wrong.

There is a slight disjunction between PFS and the adventure paths.

PFS, broadly, doesn't throw in any "unwinnable" encounters*, or when it does they're extremely clearly labelled.

This trains a certain type of behaviour.

The APS don't do that. For example, in Kingmaker, our 1st or 2nd level party stepped into the wrong hex and bumped into a Shambling Mound, in a thunderstorm.

A potentially awkward situation - none of us had the required knowledge skills to work out what it was, but common sense prevailed:
US: Err, how dangerous does it look?
GM: It's seven foot tall, get's struck by lightening, laughs, rips up a tree-trunk and throws it in your general direction.
US: Right-o, we run.

I think keeping the context clear - certainly at the start of a campaign/group/game is important...

*(*grumble*stupid assisin vine*grumble)