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Here are some of the spells from the Pathfinder RPG Beta Playtest Book that my gaming group believes need to be modified. We'd like you to take a look at them and see how these rules work in your own games. We'll be looking at the downloadable content and the entire Illusion school in future posts as time permits. Many of these spells just need to have their descriptions changed to clarify how the spells work in order to either bring them into line with similar effects or to eliminate old mechanics that are no longer valid under the existing system (such as making opposed CHA checks instead of making skill checks with the appropriate social or performance skills). There are some spells that we feel might need to be changed, but we haven't come to a consensus amongst ourselves on how to fix them, and I have excluded them here.

My gaming group and I have also been discussing how to best address the lack of game balance between spellcasters and non-spellcasters at the higher levels of gameplay (levels 10+) in the Pathfinder RPG. We do not believe that additional revisions to the class abilities of the non-spellcasting classes are the solution to this problem. We also do not believe that the introduction of Feats that grant re-rolls on Saving Throws are sufficient to resolve the issue. We believe that the only mechanic that can help resolve this issue is...

Spoiler:
The implementation of Recovery Saves.

Recovery Saves have been discussed in a quite a few threads on this Forum, and we feel it is absolutely essential to reducing the amount of battlefiend control and overall power that spellcasters currently wield with their "Save-Or-Suck" spells. As it stands right now, it is very easy to take characters out of combat for the entire duration of an encounter by using a "Save-Or-Suck" spell of the proper type against a character. Giving these characters the chance to eventually recover from these "Save-Or-Suck" spells helps mitigate the "all-or-nothing" nature of these effects and gives them the chance to eventually rejoin the combat. It may take some time for a character to accomplish this if they are attempting to make Recovery Saves against one of their weak Saving Throws, but it is a preferable alternative to simply writing off a character as being disabled for the remainder of the encounter. We also believe that it is a better mechanic then modifying the existing Saving Throw progressions of the base Pathfinder RPG classes (as it does not allow characters to multi-class to stack their saving throws as easily), and it reduces the overall reliance on the Big Six magical items.

Therefore, we suggest adding an additional value for spell descriptions under the Saving Throws field called Recovery. If a spell is flagged with the Recovery tag in the Saving Throw field of its description, this means that on every round after the first that the spell is in effect, the target is allowed to make another Saving Throw against the spell at the beginning of their turn to end the effect. Making this Recovery Save is a free action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

I address other mechanic changes in the text of some of these spells - we simply felt that since Recovery Saves need to be introduced in so many spells, it's best to just explain the concept and implementation up front and note the spells to be changed accordingly.

Without further ado, here are the spells that we believe need to be changed. I've divided them up with spoiler tags to keep you from being slammed by the Wall of Text.

Animal Trance

Spoiler:
We would like to advocate the creation of a "Fascination" subschool under the both the Enchantment and Illusion schools of magic. This subschool would be comprised of spells such as Animal Trance, Enthrall, Hypnotic Pattern, and Hypnotism. It would read as follows:

Fascination: A Fascination spell causes all those affected by it to become fascinated with either the caster or an illusionary sensory effect created by the caster. The affected creatures remain where they are for the duration of the spell and do not attack or flee. However, they are not helpless and will defend themselves normally if attacked. Any threatening actions taken towards the affected creatures immediately ends the spell.

This spell should therefore be marked as an Enchantment (Fascination) [mind-affecting, sonic] effect.

Antilife Shell

Spoiler:
The duration for this spell should be reduced to 1 round per level of the caster. Its Saving Throw listing should be changed to Will (see text). The spell description should be changed as follows:

Any creature that is vulnerable to being hedged out by the Antilife Shell that is enclosed within or attempts to enter the Antilife Shell must make a Saving Throw against the effect. If the creature fails its Saving Throw, it is unable to move towards you for that round. Affected creatures may only make one Saving Throw per round to resist this effect. However, their actions are not otherwise restricted, and they can fight other creatures, cast spells, and freely attack you from range. If you move closer to an affected creature, the creature is not forced back. The creature is free to make melee attacks against you if you come within reach.

These changes bring the spell closer into line with the Repulsion spell and clear up some of the issues regarding its deployment whenever you use it whenever you're adjacent to creatures that would otherwise be hedged out by the effect.

Antiplant Shell

Spoiler:
The duration for this spell should be reduced to 1 round per level of the caster. Its Saving Throw listing should be changed to Will (see text). The following language should replace the third paragraph of the spell description:

Any plant creature or animated plant that is vulnerable to being hedged out by the Antiplant Shell that is enclosed within or attempts to enter the Antiplant Shell must make a Saving Throw against the effect. If the creature fails its Saving Throw, it is unable to move towards you for that round. Affected creatures may only make one Saving Throw per round to resist this effect. However, their actions are not otherwise restricted, and they can fight other creatures, cast spells, and freely attack you from range. If you move closer to an affected creature, the creature is not forced back. The creature is free to make melee attacks against you if you come within reach.

These changes bring the spell closer into line with the Repulsion spell and clear up some of the issues regarding its deployment whenever you use it whenever you're adjacent to creatures that would otherwise be hedged out by the effect.

Baleful Polymorph

Spoiler:
This should not be a permanent effect. Baleful Polymorph should last no longer then one round per level of the caster and its Saving Throw listing should be changed to Fortitude negates; Fortitude Recovery.

Bestow Curse

Spoiler:
Given the severity of the penalties that are imposed by this spell and the long-term nature of the effects, the casting time for Bestow Curse should be increased to 10 minutes. We are also debating if the Saving Throw should be changed to none. This will allow spellcasters to apply potent, long-term curses on targets that are restrained or helpless, but they will not be able to use them in the middle of combat. Needless to say, this spell should not be able to be affected by the Quicken Spell feat. Maybe it needs to be turned into a Ritual of some sort?

Blindness/Deafness

Spoiler:
This should not be a permanent effect. Blindness/Deafness should last no longer then one round per level of the caster and its Saving Throw listing should be changed to Fortitude negates; Fortitude Recovery.

Cause Fear

Spoiler:
This spell's Saving Throw listing should be changed to Will partial; Will Recovery. The following language should follow the first paragraph:

Creatures that successfully make their Recovery Save and are no longer Frightened are still Shaken for the remaining duration of the spell.

Charm Person

Spoiler:
The description of the spell should read as follows:

This spell shifts a humanoid creature's attitude towards you to Friendly just as if you made a successful Diplomacy check to improve their attitude towards you. Targets that are currently being threatened by the caster or his apparent allies automatically make their saving throws to resist the spell. You cannot use Diplomacy to further improve the creature's attitude towards you while they are under the influence of this spell. Any act by you or your apparent allies that threatens the charmed person immediately breaks the spell.

Color Spray

Spoiler:
This spell's Saving Throw listing should be changed to Reflex negates; Fortitude Recovery. The spell's list of effects should be changed thusly:

2 HD or less: The creature is blinded and stunned for 2D4 rounds.
3 or 4 HD: The creature is stunned for 1D4 rounds.
5 or more HD: The creature is stunned for 1 round
.

Command, Greater

Spoiler:
This spell's Saving Throw listing should be changed to Will negates; Will Recovery.

Command Undead

Spoiler:
This spell's Saving Throw listing should be changed to Will negates. Its school and sub-school should be changed to Necromancy [language-dependant, mind-affecting]. Please note that we are making the assumption that all Undead creatures will receieve at least 1 point of INT in the Pathfinder RPG. The spell's description should read as follows:

When cast upon an undead creature, this spell shifts its attitude towards you to Friendly just as if you made a successful Diplomacy check to improve their attitude towards you. Targets that are currently being threatened by the caster or his apparent allies automatically make their saving throws to resist the spell. You cannot use Diplomacy to further improve the creature's attitude towards you while they are under the influence of this spell.

Skeletons and Zombies do not receive a saving throw against this spell. You can issue basic orders to Skeletons and Zombies such as "Come Here", "Go There", "Fight", "Stand Still" and so on. They will not resist suicidal or obviously suicidal orders. Your commands are not telepathic - you must verbally give these creatures orders.

Any act by you or your apparent allies that threatens a commanded undead creature immediately breaks the spell.

Comprehend Languages

Spoiler:
Strike the sentence stating that "in either case, you must touch the creature or the writing". No more "bad touches" are necessary to make this spell work now, and it doesn't really make much sense in the first place that it would be required when you consider that the Helm of Read Magic and Comprehend Languages doesn't require you to do this. And the range of the spell is listed as Personal to boot - you really shouldn't be issuing bad touches in the first place!

Confusion

Spoiler:
This spell's Saving Throw listing should be changed to Will negates; Will Recovery.

Contingency

Spoiler:
The second paragraph should be changed as follows:

The spell to be brough into effect by the contingency must be one that affects your person and be a spell level no higher then one-fourth your caster level (rounded down, maximum 5th level).

No more Contingency Heals!

Control Undead

Spoiler:
The duration of this spell should be reduced from 1 minute per level to 1 round per level. This spell's Saving Throw listing should be changed to Will negates; Will Recovery.

Darkness

Spoiler:
The concealment provided by this spell should be no more then 20% or it will not be balanced against the Blindness spell.

Deep Slumber

Spoiler:
See Sleep.

Deeper Darkness

Spoiler:
Tweak so that Darkvision cannot penetrate it.

Demand

Spoiler:
See Suggestion.

Dominate Animal

Spoiler:
This spell's Saving Throw listing should be changed to Will negates; Will Recovery. The text of the spell should read as follows:

You control the actions of an animal through a telepathic link that you establish with the subject's mind.

You can only direct it with simple commands such as "Come Here", "Go There", "Fight", and "Stand Still". You know what the subject is experiencing, but you do not receive direct sensory input from it, nor can it communicate with you telepathically.

Once you have given a dominated animal a command, it continues to attempt to carry out the command to the exclusion of all other activities. Because of this limited range of activity, a Sense Motive check against DC 15 (rather then DC 25) can determine that the subject's behavior is being influenced by an enchantment effect (see the Sense Motive spell description).

By concentrating fully on the spell (a standard action), you can receive full sensory input as interpreted by the mind of the subject. It still cannot communicate with you. You cannot see through the subject's eyes, so it's not as good as being there yourself, but you still get a good idea of what's going on.

Subjects resist this control, and suicidal or self-destructive commands (including an order to attack a creature two or more size categories larger then the dominated animal) are simply ignored. Once control is established, the range at which it can be exercised is unlimited as long as you and the subject are on the same plane. You need not see the creature to control it.

The language regarding Protection From Evil temporarily suspending the efficacy of Domination effects should be removed.

Dominate Monster

Spoiler:
See Dominate Person.

Dominate Person

Spoiler:
This effect should not last one day per level. Dominate Person should last no longer then one round per level of the caster (as per Dominate Animal). The target should not be granted an additional saving throw for "taking actions against this nature" (what exactly does this mean, anyway?). This spell's Saving Throw should be changed to Will negates; Will Recovery. The text of the spell should read as follows:

You control the actions of a humanoid creature through a telepathic link that you establish with the subject's mind.

If you and the subject share a common language, you can generally force the subject to perform as you desire within the limits of its abilities. If no common language exists, you can only direct it with simple commands such as "Come Here", "Go There", "Fight", and "Stand Still". You know what the subject is experiencing, but you do not receive direct sensory input from it, nor can it communicate with you telepathically.

Once you have given a dominated humanoid a command, it continues to attempt to carry out the command to the exclusion of all other activities. Because of this limited range of activity, a Sense Motive check against DC 15 (rather then DC 25) can determine that the subject's behavior is being influenced by an enchantment effect (see the Sense Motive spell description).

By concentrating fully on the spell (a standard action), you can receive full sensory input as interpreted by the mind of the subject. It still cannot communicate with you. You cannot see through the subject's eyes, so it's not as good as being there yourself, but you still get a good idea of what's going on.

Subjects resist this control, and suicidal or self-destructive commands are simply ignored. Once control is established, the range at which it can be exercised is unlimited as long as you and the subject are on the same plane. You need not see the creature to control it.

The language regarding Protection From Evil temporarily suspending the efficacy of Domination effects should be removed.

Enthrall

Spoiler:
Enthrall should be listed as an Enchantment (Fascination) [mind-affecting] effect. The first paragraph of the spell should read as follows:

If you have the attention of a group of creatures, you can use this spell to hold them spellbound. To cast the spell, you must use a Perform skill without interruption for one full round. Thereafter, those affected give you their undivided attention, ignoring their surroundings. They are considered to have an attitude of Friendly while under the effect of the spell. Targets that are currently being threatened by the caster or his apparent allies automatically make their saving throws to resist the spell.

The first sentence of the third paragraph should read as follows:

The effect lasts for as long as you continue your performance, to a maximum of one hour.

The fourth paragraph should read as follows:

If those not enthralled have unfriendly or hostile attitudes toward you, they can collectively make an opposed Perform check to try and end the spell by either jeering and heckling or drawing away attention from your performance. For this check, use the skill roll of the creature with the highest skill bonus in the group; others may make skill checks to use the Aid Another action to assist this creature. The heckling only ends the spell if their Perform check is higher then your Perform skill check result. Only one opposed skill check is allowed per use of this spell.

The final paragraph should read as follows:

The affected creatures remain where they are for the duration of the spell and do not attack or flee. However, they are not helpless and will defend themselves normally if attacked. Any threatening actions taken towards the affected creatures immediately ends the spell. The previously enthralled creatures immediately become unfriendly towards you and your apparent allies. Each creature with 4 or more HD or with a Wisdom score of 16 or higher becomes hostile.

Eyebite

Spoiler:
This spell's Saving Throw listing should be changed to Fortitude negates; Recovery (see text). Change the second sentence of the spell to read:

If the target has 10 or more HD, they are sickened. If they have less then then 10 HD, they are sickened and panicked.

Remove the table for variable effects from the spell. Change the second sentence of the description of the Sickened effect as follows:

A creature affected by this spell remains sickened for 1 minute per caster level.

Change the description of the Panicked effect as follows:

The subject becomes panicked for 1d4 rounds. The subject may make a Will Recovery Save every round to end this effect. After the panic ends, the creature remains shaken for 1 minute per caster level. If the affected creature comes within sight of the caster after the panic ends, it must make another Recovery Will save to avoid becoming panicked again for another 1d4 rounds, during which time they may make a Will Recovery Save every round to end the effect.

Faerie Fire

Spoiler:
The second sentence of the spell description should read as follows:

Outlined creatures take a -40 penalty on Stealth checks.

Fear

Spoiler:
This spell's Saving Throw listing should be changed to Will negates; Will Recovery.

Feeblemind

Spoiler:
This should not be a permanent effect. Feeblemind should last no longer then one round per level of the caster. This spell's Saving Throw listing should be changed to Will negates; Will Recovery.

Floating Disk

Spoiler:
I know I said in an earlier thread that you should be able to ride your own disc, but the spell description in Pathfinder pretty clearly indicates that it's supposed to follow you.

Forcecage

Spoiler:
The Forcecage should have Hardness 20 and 10 HP per level of the caster.

Geas, Lesser

Spoiler:
This spell's Saving Throw listing should be changed to Will negates (see text). The following sentence should be amended to the beginning of the last paragraph:

The subject of this spell may make a Will save every day to end the effect.

Glibness

Spoiler:
The Bluff bonus on this spell needs to be reduced to +10. The language regarding the Bluff skill needs to indicate that some lies are impossible to believe (as adjudicated by the GM) and will automatically fail regardless of the outcome of the Bluff check. However, these are changes that need to be made to the skill system rather then the spell and are hence beyond the scope of this document.

Hide From Animals

Spoiler:
This effect should not last 10 minutes per level. Hide From Animals should last no longer then one round per level of the caster. This spell's Saving Throw listing should be changed to Will negates; Will Recovery.

Hide From Undead

Spoiler:
This effect should not last 10 minutes per level. Hide From Undead should last no longer then one round per level of the caster. This spell's Saving Throw listing should be changed to Will negates; Will Recovery.

Hold Person

Spoiler:
This spell's Saving Throw listing should be changed to Will negates; Will Recovery.

Hold Person, Mass

Spoiler:
See Hold Person.

Hypnotic Pattern

Spoiler:
This spell should therefore be marked as an Illusion (pattern) (Fascination) [mind-affecting] effect.

Hypnotism

Spoiler:
This spell should therefore be marked as an Enchantment (Fascination) [mind-affecting] effect. Creatures that are alone and unthreatened should not receive a -2 penalty to their saving throw against the spell.

Imprisonment

Spoiler:
Given the long-term nature of this effect, the casting time for Imprisonment should be increased to 10 minutes. This will allow spellcasters to imprison targets that are already restrained or helpless, but they will not be able to do so in the middle of combat. Needless to say, this spell should not be able to be affected by the Quicken Spell feat.

Insanity

Spoiler:
Given the severity of the penalties that are imposed by this spell and the long-term nature of the effects, the casting time for Insanity should be increased to 10 minutes. We are also debating if the Saving Throw should be changed to none. This will allow spellcasters to drive targets that are restrained or helpless permanently insane, but they will not be able to do so in the middle of combat. Needless to say, this spell should not be able to be affected by the Quicken Spell feat.

Maze

Spoiler:
This effect should not last for 10 minutes. Maze should last no longer then one round per level of the caster. This spell's Saving Throw listing should be changed to none; Recovery (see text). The second and third sentences of the spell description should read as follows:

The subject may make take a full-round action to make a Will Recovery Save to try and escape the labyrinth. If the subject doesn't escape the maze spell by the time the spell's duration expires, the subject is ejected from the labyrinth.

Nondetection

[spoiler]The first sentence of the spell should be changed as follows:

The warded creature or object becomes impossible to detect via the following spells: [i]clairaudience/clairvoyance, locate object, and detect spells.[/i]

This spell is also an excellent example regarding why the caster level of Paladins and Rangers should be (class level - 3) instead of (class level / 2). A Ranger casting this spell has very little chance of evading scrying of any sort under the current formular for determining caster level - they would at least have a slim chance of evading scrying effects for a time if you changed their caster level to (class level -3).

Get rid of the 50 gp component. Even after making the changes to the spell that I have suggested, the spell isn't good enough to warrant it.

Phantasmal Killer

Spoiler:
One of the Save Or Die spells that slipped through the dragnet and needs to be fixed! The 5th sentence of the spell should read as follows:

If that save fails, the phantasm touches the subject, and the subject must succeed on a Fortitude save or take 12d6 points of damage + 1 point per level of the caster.

Plane Shift

Spoiler:
The first sentence of the spell should read:

You move yourself or some other willing creature to another plane of existence or alternate dimension.

Power Word, Stun

Spoiler:
This spell's Saving Throw listing should be changed to Saving Throw none; Will Recovery. Given the escalation of hit point totals in Pathfinder as compared to previous iterations of the game, the table regarding the hit points thresholds for the effects of this spell should be changed as follows:

75 or less - 4d4 rounds
76 - 150 - 2d4 rounds
151 - 200 - 1d4 rounds

Prismatic Sphere

Spoiler:
Change Insanity effect to Confusion effect.

Confused, as per Confusion spell (Will negates, Will Recovery)

Prismatic Spray

Spoiler:
Change Insanity effect to Confusion effect.

Confused, as per Confusion spell (Will negates, Will Recovery)

Protection From Evil

Spoiler:
One of the spells that sets Wizards, Sorcerers, and Clerics apart from the lesser rabble that would deign to call themselves spellcasters. As it stands right now, not even Asmodeus himself could possess you if you have this buff cast upon you! ALL Domination and Charm effects = epic fail with this spell cast upon you.

In actuality, we should probably be relying upon spells such as Dispel Evil, Dispel Magic, and Break Enchantment to end these effects. Our suggestion: remove the absolute protection against Domination effects. Give characters with this buff a +2 to their Saving Throws against Enchantment [Charm] and Enchantment [Compulsion] effects. Remove the 3rd paragraph and give characters with this buff an additional +2 AC bonus against Evil summoned creatures.

Ray Of Enfeeblement

Spoiler:
As it stands, one of the most broken spells in the game right now. The spell description should read as follows:

A coruscating ray springs from your hand. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to strike a target. The subject takes a -2 penalty to hit and damage rolls plus an additional -1 penalty for every three caster levels you have (maximum -5).

Reincarnate

Spoiler:
I believe that Reincarnate is broken, but I believe that it can be fixed by tweaking the existing description as follows:

A reincarnated creature recalls the majority of its former life and form. It retains any class abilities, feats, or skill ranks it formerly possessed. Its class, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, and base hit points remain unchanged. The subject loses all of the Racial Traits and ability score adjustments of its old race (since it is no longer part of its previous race) and gains the Racial Traits and ability score adjustments of the subject's new race. The subject’s level (or Hit Dice) is reduced by 1. If the subject was 1st level, its new Constitution score is reduced by 2. (If this reduction would put its Con at 0 or lower, it can’t be reincarnated). This level/HD loss or Constitution loss cannot be repaired by any means.

This rule change means that a Reincarnated character not only loses all of its existing racial ability score adjustments, but it loses ALL of the other Racial Traits that currently carry over in the existing rules while simultaneously gaining the Racial Traits of the character's new race. So you don't have to worry about Humans being Reincarnated as Half-Orcs running around with extra skill points and a Bonus Feat, or Dwarves being reincarnated as Humans while still retaining their Stonecunning and their Defensive Training.

Furthermore, I believe that Bugbears, Gnolls, Lizardfolk, and Troglodytes should be removed from the Incarnation Table and replaced with the following races (assuming they will be balanced or are already balanced for a +0 Level Adjustment): Aasimar, Tiefling, Hobgoblin and Gensai. The "Other" listing should be removed entirely. Other LA +0 races that are released in future releases should be flagged in their Bestiary as such for possible addition to the Incarnation Table by GMs.

Finally, we would like the fifth paragraph to read as follows:

For a humanoid creature, the new incarnation is determined using the following tables. The player can either choose to be reincarnated as a member of the race that they rolled or one of the races adjacent to that result on the incarnation table.

So if you have a player that rolls "Half-Elf" on the Incarnation Table, they could also choose to come back as either a Goblin or a Half-Orc.

Repulsion

Spoiler:
This spell's Saving Throw listing should be changed to none; Will (see text).

An invisible, mobile field surrounds you and prevent creatures from approaching you. You decide how big the field is at the time of casting (to the limit that your level allows).

Any creature that is enclosed within or attempts to enter the repulsion field must make a Saving Throw against the effect. If the creature fails its Saving Throw, it is unable to move towards you for that round. Affected creatures may only make one Saving Throw per round to resist this effect. However, their actions are not otherwise restricted, and they can attack other creatures, cast spells, and freely attack you from range. If you move closer to an affected creature, the creature is not forced back. The creature is free to make melee attacks against you if you come within reach.

Rope Trick

Spoiler:
See Jason Nelson's version of the spell, but the amount of weight supported should be around 16,000 pounds so larger creatures can also make use of the spell.

Scare

Spoiler:
See Cause Fear.

Scintillating Pattern

Spoiler:
This spell's Saving Throw listing should be changed to Saving Throw none; Will Recovery. The spell effect/hit dice table should be changed as follows:

12 or less: Stunned for 1d4 rounds, then confused for 1d4 rounds.
13 or more: Confused for 1d4 rounds
.

Sculpt Sound

Spoiler:
The duration of this spell should be reduced to 1 round per level of the caster. The Saving Throw should be changed to Will negates (object); Will Recovery. The first paragraph should read as follows:

You can change the sounds that creatures or objects make. You can transform sounds into other sounds, but you cannot reduce or increase the volume of the sound that you are sculptuing, nor can you create sounds where none exists or deaden or remove the sounds that the target makes.

Silence

Spoiler:
Silence needs to be changed to a Transmutation effect (as per Sculpt Sound).

Sleep

Spoiler:
This spell should last no longer then one round per level of the caster. The saving throw should be changed to Will negates; Will Recovery.

Song Of Discord

Spoiler:
This spell's Saving Throw listing should be changed to Saving Throw Will; Will Recovery.

Sound Burst

Spoiler:
This spell should only have Somatic and Focus components to serve a as a proper counter for Silence. The following text needs to be amended to the description of the spell:

Sound Burst may be used to counter or dispel any Silence spell.

Spider Climb

Spoiler:
The third sentence of the spell description should read as follows:

The subject gains a climb speed of 20 feet and a +8 bonus to Climb checks; furthermore, it need not make Climb checks to traverse a vertical or horizontal surface (even upside down).

Suggestion

Spoiler:
The following sentence should be amended to the first paragraph of the spell description:

Targets that are currently being threatened or engaged in combat by the caster or his apparent allies should automatically make their saving throws to resist the spell.

Summon Monster

Spoiler:
Once you get past 10th level, the Summon Monster and Summon Nature's Ally spells allow spellcasters to replace characters that rely on inflicting melee damage relatively easily. The power of the Summons are sufficient to soak up enough hits, generate enough threat, and do enough damage to tank for spellcasters. Furthermore, you can spam the battlefield with trash summons to force monsters to waste their actions pulverizing trash instead of attacking you. Either way, Fighters and their ilk become somewhat redundant once you have these tools at your disposal.

We felt that there were only two ways to remedy this situation: to either reduce the power of the summoned creatures and create a new table for summoning monsters, or to limit the number of summons that a spell caster can bring into play. In order to ensure backwards compatability, we are opting for the latter option. We believe that the following language needs to be added to the first paragraph of the description of the Summoning subschool:

A spellcaster can only have one Summoning effect active at any given time. If a spellcaster has a Summoning effect in play and casts a Summoning spell of equal or higher level then the one used to generate the current effect, the caster may choose to either end the current effect and summon forth a new monster (or monsters), or they may elect to extend the duration of the current spell for one round per level of the caster.

Summon Nature's Ally

Spoiler:
Once you get past 10th level, the Summon Monster and Summon Nature's Ally spells allow spellcasters to replace characters that rely on inflicting melee damage relatively easily. The power of the Summons are sufficient to soak up enough hits, generate enough threat, and do enough damage to tank for spellcasters. Furthermore, you can spam the battlefield with trash summons to force monsters to waste their actions pulverizing trash instead of attacking you. Either way, Fighters and their ilk become somewhat redundant once you have these tools at your disposal.

We felt that there were only two ways to remedy this situation: to either reduce the power of the summoned creatures and create a new table for summoning monsters, or to limit the number of summons that a spell caster can bring into play. In order to ensure backwards compatability, we are opting for the latter option. We believe that the following language needs to be added to the first paragraph of the description of the Summoning subschool:

A spellcaster can only have one Summoning effect active at any given time. If a spellcaster has a Summoning effect in play and casts a Summoning spell of equal or higher level then the one used to generate the current effect, the caster may choose to either end the current effect and summon forth a new monster (or monsters), or they may elect to extend the duration of the current spell for one round per level of the caster.

Temporal Stasis

Spoiler:
Given the severity of the penalties that are imposed by this spell and the long-term nature of the effects, the casting time for Temporal Stasis should be increased to 10 minutes. We are also debating if the Saving Throw should be changed to none. This will allow spellcasters to imprison targets that are restrained or helpless, but they will not be able to do so in the middle of combat. Needless to say, this spell should not be able to be affected by the Quicken Spell feat.

Time Stop

Spoiler:
The following sentence needs to be amended to the first paragraph of the description of the Time Stop spell:

A spellcaster that casts a second Time Stop spell while already under the effect of a Time Stop spell extends the duration of the active spell by another 1d4+1 rounds.

Touch of Idiocy

Spoiler:
The duration of this spell should be changed to one round per level of the caster. This spell's Saving Throw listing should be changed to Saving Throw Will; Will Recovery.

Wall Of Force

Spoiler:
A 10 foot section of Wall of Force should have Hardness 20 and 20 HP per level of the caster.

Weird

Spoiler:
Change the Target field to read "1 creature per level of the caster, no two of which can be more then 30 ft. apart". The following sentances should be amended to the beginning of the second paragraph of the spell description:

If a subjects fail their Fortitude saves, they take 10 points of damage per caster level of the person casting the spell.

Wind Wall

Spoiler:
We feel that Wind Wall needs to be nerfed further. It should be changed to read:

Any normal ranged weapon passing through the wall has a 30% miss chance.

We believe that arrows and bolts should be able to get through the Wind Wall, albeit with a miss chance.

Zone of Silence

Spoiler:
Change to a Transmutation effect.


That's right, I'm serious. Get rid of them. Take them all and throw them out the window. Spellcasters are already overpowered in play at higher levels - giving them the ability to instantly slap on Quicken and Empower Feats via these potent magical items (especially to 7th, 8th, and 9th level spells, which wouldn't even normally qualify for being paired with these Feats) is just insane.


There are a number of Feats listed in Pathfinder that are listed as being "Fighter Only". Instead of listing these abilities as Feats, wouldn't it be more appropriate to list them as "Talents", much like the Rogue class currently has? This would allow Fighters to gain special abilities that are unique to the class that would be quantified as class abilities and listed in the Fighter class write-up. And you could always spend these Talents on Combat Feats, just like Rogues are capable of doing.

I also think this would also be an excellent way to allow Fighters to obtain special abilities that help better shore up their weaknesses, particularly in regards to enhancing their movement, intercepting enemies, making iterative attacks over the course of their movement, and re-rolling failed Will saves.


Although the PRPG has done a great deal to reduce the "swingy" nature of high-level encounters by changing the way that "Save-Or-Die" spells work,
the most broken spells in the game seem to have gone untouched - those belonging to the Enchantment/Charm school. Spells like Charm Person and Dominate Monster not only allow you to instantly take an opponent out of combat like a traditional "Save-Or-Die" spell, but they also allow you to deploy them against your remaining opponents. This not only allows PCs with Enchanters to burn through otherwise challenging encounters with relative ease, but it cause an enormous amount of frustration for players when they encounter enemies that deploy the same tactics against them.

I believe that creatures that are under the influence of these kinds of mind-affecting Enchantment effects should be granted a new saving throw against the effect on their turn for every round that they are engaged in combat. Furthermore, I believe that these creatures should receive a cumulative +1 bonus to their save against the effect for every round that they are engaged in combat. Finally, I believe that the Mind Fog spell should be removed from the game altogether. I believe that these changes will go a long way towards balancing Enchantment/Charm spells that allow you to control opponents in combat against other combat spells while allowing Enchanters and Bards to use Charm Person and Dominate Person to great effect in non-combat situations.


The bonus to Bluff checks to avoid detecting lies needs to be reduced from a +20 bonus to a +10 bonus. Keep in mind that the largest penalty that you can receive on your Bluff check is -20 for lies that are "way out there, almost too impossible to consider". A +20 bonus basically eradicates that penalty and allows Bards to make regular rolls for impossible lies. Given the high ranks in Bluff that a Bard is already likely to have, a +20 bonus to Bluff this lets Bards run amok in any campaign where social interaction is crucial.

On a related note: I prefer the more in-depth description of the Bluff skill that was in the original SRD. I also believe that the description in the Beta document is a little oversimplified.

I also think that it needs to be made clear that some lies really are completely impossible (i.e. telling someone that the sky is red when it is clearly blue) and will automatically fail no matter what the result of your Bluff skill check is.

Finally, I believe that if you fail to deceive someone, any further checks made to deceive them should be made at a -10 penalty. The only thing that should be left to the GM's discretion is whether or not any further attempts to lie to the target are impossible or not.


I'm not even sure if this part of the Forum is being monitored any more, but I figured I'd ask regardless:

There's been a lot of going on back and forth on this forum about melee classes being helpless in circumstances where they aren't able to close with their enemies. I don't agree with this idea - that is why bows were invented, after all - but I do believe that melee classes should be able to take feats that grant them improved speed and mobility. There are some situations where it is more advantageous for a melee combatant to get up close and personal as opposed to firing at an opponent at range. This is especially true whenever you are protecting softer targets (like Wizards) and need to intercept monsters that are clever enough to realize that murdering your spellcasters will make it much easier to slaughter the rest of the party.

In short: what is the possibility that we might see Feats that allow you to make multiple attacks at the end of or during the process a character's movement within a round?


Can we just give Monks the ability to strike with their Unarmed Attacks as if they were Magic/Lawful/Adamantine without making them have to hold onto the last point of their Ki Pool? Monks should be using their Ki Pool to do cool things in combat, and this rule prevents them from leveraging their special abilities and attacks as well as they could.


I think that it is time to question whether or not we want to continue enforcing alignment restrictions on Barbarians, Bards, and Monks. I realize that these are old tropes and sacred cows, but I don't think that it makes much sense to restrict them from taking certain alignments in retrospect.

- Why is it that Lawful characters cannot gain levels in Barbarian or go into a Rage? Are Lawful characters somehow unable to become angry? Is it impossible to harness the power of screaming blood frenzy while following a personal code of honorable conduct or recognizing a higher authority?

- Why can't Bards be Lawful? Are Lawful characters automatically less capable of musically entertaining people then characters of other alignments? I would imagine that musicians that work together in orchestras would have a Lawful bent, as would those musicians that devote their lives to writing beautiful, intricate symphonies.

- Finally: why do Monks have to be Lawful? Is there no room in Pathfinder for Drunken Masters? And why is it that whenever you read through the D&D 3.5 book, the descriptions of Ember and Mialee both use their devotion to their respective professions to justify their alignments - despite the fact that one character is Lawful, and the other is Chaotic?

I'm not convinced that these rules should still stand.


Do we really need to bribe players with extra HP or Skill Points to try and encourage them to play traditional race/class combinations? All of the races have certain classes that they clearly excel in. It seems to me that there's already enough incentive for for players to have characters that play traditional race/class roles. I believe that giving them extra HP or Skill Points to these players simply penalizes other players that choose to go "outside the box" and build non-traditional characters.


I'd like to suggest that the Fighter's Armor Training ability at Level 11 be amended so that any armor that they wear is treated as being one class lighter then it actually is for the purposes of determining movement speed. This would allow Fighters in Heavy Armor to move quadruple their run speed and it would allow Fighters in Medium Armor to move as if they were wearing Light Armor. This would not only grant Fighters greater mobility on the battlefield, but it would give them a solid reason to consider wearing Medium Armor instead of Heavy Armor.


A question for the developers: Do you have any plans to include spells for taking Vermin Form or feats that allow you to take Vermin as Animal Companions in the final release of the Pathfinder RPG?

Thanks!


A quick set of questions for the designers:

What are your plans regarding the various "monstrous races" that are featured in the SRD? Will their stats and racial abilities be brought up to code with the "core races" so that they can be used to create viable and balanced player characters? Do you plan on reducing the ECL/Hit Dice for any of the "more powerful" monster races such as Gnolls, Hobgoblins, and Lizardmen, toning them down so they are balanced against the races that have already been published?

I realize that playing monstrous characters may be in vogue right now, but I've been doing so for a long time now, and I just wanted to make sure that the "dungeon fodder" wasn't left behind...

Many thanks in advance!


Will Earth Elementals be receiving Tremorsense in the Pathfinder RPG? I always found it rather odd that other earth-dwelling monsters in the SRD have this ability, but Earth Elementals do not. After all, how else are they supposed to navigate underground when they use their Earth Glide ability? And if Earth Elementals do receive Tremorsense, will the Elemental Body spells be updated accordingly?